Episode · Apr 17, 2026 · 1 hr 16 min
Living on the Edge Without Losing Each Other
with Laird Hamilton & Gabby Reece
Laird Hamilton surfs big waves, and Gabby Reece says she trusts him when he takes risks in the water.
“Luck and chance are law and not understood.”
Summary
Ken Rideout opens at Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece’s home before Laird describes how he prepares for dangerous surf at Nazaré. He treats fear as a signal to focus, relies on a trusted safety team, and uses breath-holding drills to rehearse discomfort. Gabby explains why she stopped surfing and how watching Laird take risks requires trust. They describe nearly divorcing early in their relationship and learning to raise problems quickly instead of letting resentment grow.
The conversation turns to their childhoods and values. Gabby grew up around the ocean in the Virgin Islands, while Laird describes a self-reliant childhood in Kauai and work on a pig farm. They discuss discipline, addiction, the false appearance of luck, and the friends who fill their open home. Later, they talk about daily habits that sustain their marriage, a vintage Mercedes, and plans for Hamilton House, a physical and digital wellness project. Ken closes by asking how they balance ambition with a simpler life.
Show notes
I went out to Malibu to sit down with Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece.
Everyone knows Laird for big-wave surfing and doing things most people wouldn’t even attempt. But what stood out to me wasn’t the waves, it was how he thinks about fear.
He doesn’t avoid it. He uses it.
And then there’s Gabby. She’s watching the person she loves go put himself in real danger, and instead of trying to control it, she’s built a level of trust that most people just don’t have.
We also got into their marriage.
They almost got divorced early on. Not in theory, actually close. And what changed everything was learning how to deal with problems immediately. No letting things build. No saying nothing and pretending it’s fine.
Say it. Fix it. Move on.
It sounds simple, but most people don’t do it.
We talked about discipline, addiction, reputation, and why people look at someone’s life and call it "lucky" without having any idea what it took to get there.
This isn’t a surfing conversation.
It’s about fear, ownership, and doing the work, whether that’s in your life, your career, or your relationship.
Transcript
Made from YouTube's automatic captions and lightly corrected, so a few words and names may be off. Click a time to play the video from there.
Ken Rideout
Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece, thank you for doing this. I love you guys. I'm so happy to talk to you and thank you for hosting me in your home, Gabby.
Gabby Reece
Yeah, I'm sorry to torture you with I couldn't figure out how to cover the name. So
Ken Rideout
I love I think it looks awesome.
Gabby Reece
It was There was no way to turn it into Ken write out, either.
Laird Hamilton
You thought that there wasn't enough letters. We You couldn't make Ken out of Gabby or write out of Reece.
Ken Rideout
Well, hopefully like we were just talking about before we started. If you want to win, you do what you got to do and including travel to Malibu and talk to you in your own studio. Thank you. And I appreciate you for allowing me to do it. What's the tip What was the typical day today for the fittest couple I know?
Gabby Reece
Well, for me, I was lazy this morning. I just did a recovery sauna cuz I trained hard yesterday and this is something neither one of you two will understand. I've learned I feel better in some kind of form of moderation. So, I did sauna and some red bed and got ready and I recorded a show and then had of course, you know, about an hour worth of calls and some stuff and Laird per usual, he speaks your language.
Laird Hamilton
Up at dark and Red bed with AC blowing on me, so it was super cool.
Know how to turn that off? That's the worst.
Too lazy to get up. Solar gaze, ride my bike back backwards with a low seat. Mhm. Sauna and then did a bad drill in the pool which involved involved holding my breath, swimming with a weight and jumping up and down and I have it's called 15s. There's a bunch of variations of 15 jumps and 10 five and swim backs and just It's awful. It's awful the whole time.
Gabby Reece
Yeah. I call it the patience drill. Yeah. Cuz no matter what's going to happen, it's not going to be good, so you just are like, yeah, this is how you know from the drills you do.
Laird Hamilton
You can make it easier or harder depending on when you decide to breathe.
Your weight, yeah. Yeah, how your approach on the swim and all that sort
Gabby Reece
And your fat and he's fasting.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. Yeah. And then we went and played pickle and got really frustrated.
Gabby Reece
Yeah, the vast is Laird in man-on-man sports, we call them. Like
More than 25 years ago we were watching something cuz I like watching sports.
Yeah. And Laird's like, yeah. He's like, this is man-on-man sports and I go, I never I never looked at it that way.
Ken Rideout
I can't imagine Laird playing a one-on-one type of sport. You were saying something about him getting intense about something. I'm like, I can't even imagine him getting angry or frustrated.
Gabby Reece
Well, we have a running joke that Laird is so competitive that he does he chooses to do a sport where the repercussion is you could drown. We're going to get to that.
He'd rather do that than like have a ref decide something or another person. Well, that's fair.
Laird Hamilton
The straightforwardness of like, hey you, him, surfer, you're along for the ride. You will never dominate. You're never going to win. You'll just survive and perform maybe a little while you're at it. That's fair. Maybe if I had a different upbringing or something or it was maybe if I was just a different person. If you were in San Diego, you would have been a you would have been a outside linebacker or something. Well, you know, I say show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.
You'll go, you're such a bad loser. I go, well, you're supposed to be a good loser? He's both, actually. Oh, you're really a good loser.
Ken Rideout
I'm like, oh, you're going to be doing that a lot. That's something that I actually wanted to talk to you about the risks involved. Like when you go and when he goes and surfs like Nazaré, when I see videos of that, I'm like, I can't like I just look at it and I'm like, I'm I'm petrified. Like the thought of being in the water is so intimidating to me.
Gabby Reece
It's shocking that people survive.
Ken Rideout
How do you handle it when he's like, all right, see I'm going to Portugal?
Gabby Reece
Well Laird's only foiled Nazaré. Um there's other places that may be differently or are treacherous. Is foiling harder than surfing?
It's just different. Um it's all I think challenging what these guys are all doing.
Laird Hamilton
Foiling is definitely Foiling is like doing downhill on a unicycle. Well, that's what I mean. Like whether you're surfing or foiling Nazaré, you're in the water and if you fall, you're in trouble.
Gabby Reece
Well, so there's a couple of things connected to that. If I I just go to the most rudimentary, I that's how I met Laird. I interviewed Laird because of his surfing capabilities for a sports show. So, you know the expression like you knew the job was dangerous like when you took it. So, I this this anyone who knows Laird for 5 minutes understands that this is part of Laird's calling and mission. And I think the bigger part of that why I feel comfortable um is how serious Laird is.
He He's not cavalier. He dedicates his entire life around being as ready or prepared as you can be and he conducts himself in a way that gives me a lot of confidence because I see how serious and methodical he approaches it. And um and then the people he surrounds himself with, they're also really serious-minded and capable. So, if for example if something did happen, the people who are looking out for him are also really skilled and serious. So that gives me a a great piece of heart and and you know this just from living.
We're not in control of what's happening and so um I'm one, I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about it, but two, also this is what makes this is what makes Laird Laird.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. When you get to Nazaré and you're looking at the water, do you feel scared? I mean, the worst thing is to watch from the land. So, yeah, there's a there's a I mean, there's well, scared or anxiety. I mean you know, you'd have to define scared, right? Like
Ken Rideout
Like when I talk to fighters and and I've been in locker rooms of world championship fights, people are scared. Like I don't I don't know that I think of most people if they're being honest would be like, yeah, I'm scared or like or anxious or whatever, but it's like even before a race, I'm like, oh my god, I'm so I'm so nervous. Like I'm not scared, but I'm nervous and like my anxiety is through the roof. I just want to I just want to get in there.
Laird Hamilton
Is that kind of the same thing? Yeah, like just want to get I mean, to watch I I don't want to watch. I don't want I want to go, oh, it's we need or we're going. Okay, and then just head down, get there and get in it and then you and then you're in it. And when you're in it, you're not observing it. And when you're in it, you can do something about it, but when you're observing, you can't do anything about it and so I think that's that's definitely I mean, that's the honest approach.
Like you said, hey, if you're not scared, I would question your intelligence. I I if you look and you go, it's like you're going to step in the ring with some giant guy that can, you know, knock you unconscious, okay, then you I mean, assessment would tell me, yeah, be a little cautious. Be aware. Hey, you know, you be scared and and so again, that's why I said define fear like or define being scared. Is scared you run in the closet and you don't go out or you don't go in the ring or is scared like I'm scared, but I'm going to go and then I'm going to be you know, cuz I think I think scared is an incredible being afraid is has such powerful uh there's so much powerful energy in that.
There's so much heightened awareness, heightened I mean, if you're if especially if you've done it for a long time, it's like a it's an engine. You can use the you can pull your visions better, your hearing, your decision-making, all that stuff is on hyper on hyper speed and I mean, I think that's that's one of the most brilliant parts of, you know, being alive.
Ken Rideout
I've described it as being comfortably being comfortable with being comfortable with being uncomfortable or being comfort being comfortable with discomfort and people like, well, you never get comfortable being uncomfortable.
I'm like, yes, but you get comfortable with knowing I'm super uncomfortable about what I'm what I'm about to do, but I'm confident and comfortable knowing that I'm going. Like I'm going and I know I've been here. I know this feeling and I know what's going to happen and I know it where going and I know I'm going to be happy when I'm when it's over, but I'm going to just I just want to start. I don't want to stand at the start line. I don't want to like I'm sure you don't want to stand on the beach like, let's go, guys.
Get in the water. Stop dragging your feet.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. Let's move. Do you always surf with the same guys? Um I do when it's when it's big and dangerous. Yeah. I mean, it it whenever we go like whenever we go out in in the in big ocean, there's I I have I mean, I have one one gentleman, uh Terry Chun, who I've who's in his early 70s right now, who I've known for 50 years that him and I have a shorthand. Like we have a we have a shorthand with our with our kind of what I want, he wants what he wants, I want.
Um do we just are the new all those little details of knowing he'll come and put himself on the line for me. I don't have to even wonder if that's a possibility. And then his wave judgment like a you know, together him and I have you know, 100 years of wave judgment that we're assessing the situation with. So, we're always in line that way and I have some young you know, I got Luca Padua. I got, you know, young young guys that are are the up-and-coming same mentality, same kind of reliability in the in the chaos.
Um there's always that same team. Like we always just have a cuz you just need you you can't be finding out about somebody in the middle of a situation. You're not like, oh, I didn't realize that this guy was, you know, doesn't hear. Like You know, like or he just when I say, hey, come, he goes the other way or the way he is it's like that's not the time to find out. So, you want to kind of get through that and once you have those guys you can rely on, you just you just those are your go-to guys and that allows you to take bigger risk, put yourself further on the line cuz you know that, you know, they have your they have your back and they know you have their back.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Do you ever surf with him? No. Have you You You must have gone surfing before. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I used to surf a little bit and um She put on a real She put on In the beginning of our relationship, she was like, I'm really into surf and surfing. I don't know what he told me originally. The first few times surfing, how quickly was I in for a beginner bigger surf? Like Laird I didn't really understand. Yeah. And
Laird Hamilton
She didn't have any like she didn't she well, but also she didn't have any like past memory to get in the way. So I was like awesome. So we can just she doesn't know it's big versus small. Not big big, but just big for a beginner. But it wouldn't surprise me that you decided to start with the bigger waves with Laird versus going to the wave pool and like having the guy on his knees next to you and
Gabby Reece
I take that all day long. It looks so much fun.
It does. You know, the thing is is that I did surf a little bit. I always had a longboard and smaller waves and it was really good fun cuz I felt overly overall pretty comfortable in the water. But um I don't know if you know about surfing. It's it's pretty combative. No, I've It's you know, it can be a contentious place and the problem was that I didn't really have the skill to always be out of the way or to and and it
Ken Rideout
Oh, yeah, yeah, when there's other people there. I'm imagining the two of you on a desolate beach and like
Gabby Reece
Where I surf. I surf with the the humans. He gets to surf away, you And so I I just was like, you know, I'm trying to simplify my life and simplify friction. And you have to be you have to be loving surfing cuz then the entanglement is worth it. And for me I I would like, okay, I'll paddle on the river. I'm in the water often. We do pool training and I'm like, I'll see when
Laird Hamilton
you Yeah, but she was she's a phenomenal swimmer. Her her mom trained dolphins when she was little.
I mean, she grew up in the in the in the Virgin Islands where she was in the ocean and with boats and so her ocean understanding and ocean skill. I mean, cuz we always look at you know, we people go waterman which is somebody who's who's versatile at being in the ocean and can go anywhere in the world in any situation and have an understanding of what's happening. Okay, yeah, surfing is one of the disciplines that we do. We go surfing and we ride waves. But there's a lot of ways to ride waves.
There's a lot of ways to be in the water. There's a lot of ways to to and she's you know, so her her love of the water, her understanding of the water, her ability in the water like she's a natural phenomenal swimmer. So great paddler. Could catch waves easy, could but again that that one aspect was the part that keep kept her away from which I completely understand cuz I'm subjected to it and have been my whole life and I'm allergic to it as well. I'm not always trying to go someplace and and big is great.
Stormy, any kind of brutal conditions are great because it weeds out you know, most of the community which is which is helpful.
Gabby Reece
I will say this though. I have a group of girlfriends on Kauai and it'd be really cute at dinner. Instead of talking about shoes or whatever, they're talking about their new 90 red longboard. Like it's the cutest thing because I have a lot of friends that not necessarily big waves, they just love surfing.
Gabby Reece
MTV? I was past MTV. I was doing the Extremists and um I was playing ball at that time. Oh, you were. You were playing professional volleyball.
Ken Rideout
Beach beach volleyball?
Gabby Reece
Yeah, I was right in the middle of that.
Ken Rideout
Female sport to watch.
Gabby Reece
You're not alone. I didn't mind it either. I didn't even know. I didn't even know that she was a pro. People used to say that to me. They'd be like, oh, something about the way I look and I go, listen, there's millions of me. Just go to the beach over there. They're jumping around over there with ponytails hitting balls right now. So every time I see you when you walk in, I'm like, so tall, so pretty. I say the same thing to Katie Hoff too. She was an Olympic swimmer.
Ken Rideout
I sometimes I forget how tall you guys are. Well, when you guys met, you were you were you were working and playing professional volleyball and you were surfing professionally?
Gabby Reece
Like or is Well, he got paid for surfing, but Laird never competed. He had a really incredible sponsor. Oxbow was one of them, but the real main one that really gave him the freedom to pursue being available where the surf was big. So that really gave Laird some runway to be able to to pursue that. That's pretty I did a lot of odd jobs too.
Laird Hamilton
I would just subsidize it anyway. I would just do anything I could. Some I'd do a stupid Hollywood movie or I'd do anything I could to just offset because I wasn't in the in the structure of surfing. I wasn't on the tour and didn't have a sponsor. So I didn't have that kind of stability. Mine was like, okay, scramble and do whatever you have to do and sometimes it would be, you know, cut the neighbor's trees with a chainsaw or something. Do you know, something. Whatever it like whatever it was to do it.
Um but I did have I was fortunate to get a a sponsor a little bit further on in my career that really did give me that freedom.
Ken Rideout
I was telling Gabby one of the things I love is when she posts content about you and you're always I was telling her, I wish I had half the man skills you have like driving tractors, chainsaws. Like I grew up in the inner city. I don't know how to do anything. Like I'm I mean, I'm not a spaz. Like I can figure it out, but like if you said to me, hey, we got to plant all these trees.
We got to we got to clear this brush. I'll be like, should we just hire someone to do this? But when I see you especially in Hawaii, I'm like, oh, creating the giant slip and slide on the hill that time. I'm like, this guy does everything. He's like all man. I'm like, I feel like I feel so emasculated. I'm like, I don't know how to do anything. If someone comes to fight with us, I'm like, all right, I'm cool. We got I can fight with them.
I recorded a show for A&E a couple years ago, a pilot for a show called Prison Ride Home. So I'm driving inmates home from prison and the car is all rigged and I'm talking to them. And the guys who produced it also produce Alone. They have they produce a a bunch of And they were like, Ken, we want you to do Alone. You'd be awesome. And I was like, I thought you guys liked me. You want to make a fool of myself. Like I don't know how to fish.
I've never been hunting. I mean, I have now. I went to Maui Nui, but I've never done any of this stuff. I'll be dead in a week cuz I like won't eat and I refuse to quit and I'll die. And they were like, that would be so entertaining. I'm like, not for me. I got I've got better things to do than embarrass myself on TV.
Laird Hamilton
That would be so entertaining. They your expense. It'd be like it'd be so entertaining to watch you go through the process of dying cuz you won't give up.
Ken Rideout
The one thing I wouldn't do is be the guy that twists his ankle on the first day and he's like, guys, my ankle's twisted. Come and get me. Or I watch with my
That?
Laird Hamilton
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
Who's obsessed with that show.
It's my favorite show. It's yeah.
We have a friend Jeff I watch it with my kids and anytime someone taps out early and they're like, I just, you know, I just miss my family and my kids will always be like, Dad, didn't they know the show was called Alone for a reason? And I'm like, It doesn't matter who quits. We say we all someone will say it for us. They're like, oh, he got me. Didn't he know it was Alone? I want to get out of here. I miss my wife. Like, yeah, it's called Alone, dude.
You're by yourself. You guys one of the things that I love about you guys is you always seem to either you're putting on the best act about getting along so well or you have the healthiest marriage of anyone that I've ever seen because you guys tend to seem to really deeply love each other and you know, I know a lot of people that are married including myself and it's hard to so affectionate and caring and kind and loving all the time and not get seemingly not get frustrated unless you save that for when people aren't around which is very rare around this house.
Gabby Reece
I think it's a combination. I think I think we are like that, but I think it's maybe sometimes for the reasons and not for some of the reasons people think. I think um there's kind of this healthy built-in amount of sort of I don't know what you would call it, but um Laird jokes about mutually assured destruction, but it's sort of like there's a part of me that really respects Laird and also I'm not really here to agitate Laird. I'm here to try to make Laird's life better.
And that's really my goal. And I feel that way. He has a different way of doing it than I do. Um And and also I don't want to be in a relationship personally that isn't loving and kind and exciting and and I I've learned that if I make those things, then we can at least be halfway there and I have seen that Laird has made that same choice on on his side. And like yesterday we got on each other's nerves for a minute, but it's quick.
Laird Hamilton
How long it last? 10 minutes?
Yeah. It was quick and that's like unusual. Um Yeah. Because he's you know, he I was fasting. He's fasting. There's no waves.
Gabby Reece
You know, he gets he gets restless. Yeah. And he's like, what am I doing here?
Laird Hamilton
You know? But but I I think I think one of the things that that I know I try to do is I just try to get it out quick. Like just not let it build up. Not say the thing. Just be it's like a pressure cooker. Just let a little bit out.
And it if you looked at it over a long period of time, you might be like, oh, that was a fair amount. But really it wasn't. If you just wait, then you blow the lid off. and so I think that's a big piece of it and also I think that I know Gabby does it very well and I try to do it myself. You go handle you. Like I'm going to go handle me and I'm going to come back. I'm going to do what I need to do so when I come back I'm I'm just like I'm bendy.
You can I can just be like sure yeah, it's all good and then you go handle you and she comes she does what she needs to do for her and then together but I'm not looking at her to go hey and that's the only time I think we get in a little bit of a weird thing with somehow she's adjusting for me trying to maybe do something cuz she feels a certain way and then I'm like hey I don't need you to do that me for me or like to make and and vice versa so I think it's a dance.
There's a dance that we have that we've kind of we've learned to try to avoid each other's feet and you know along the way and and uh
Gabby Reece
But I will also say that Laird taught me something really early in our relationship cuz we did almost get divorced in 2000.
Ken Rideout
Really?
Gabby Reece
Yeah. For real.
Yeah. What happened? Uh well we just we I didn't know how to have healthy confrontation and it was just a series of things where you have two people who we didn't really grow up in successful households as far as relationships. And Laird is a is a good communicator um in certain ways um and I thought loving someone was being stoic. And so the point is is that in 2000 we literally almost got divorced. We were married in '97. And I when we decided no we're really going to give it a go and I really give Laird the credit for this because he I think watched and knew I was trying to figure my own stuff out from my childhood and from just my own patterns.
Like okay you're done you know. And then I was like well it was this this and this and then he just said something really simple to me. He's like why didn't you say anything? And I thought oh it's so interesting why didn't I say anything? And so the other thing is I have been encouraged in the situation to speak plainly and how I feel. And um and that allows like Laird said things don't get swept under the rug. So we're not we don't have like years and years that we can't figure out why we have these resentments because he's very confrontational in the best way and has really encouraged me and you can do that without being destructive or mean but you can just be calling it you know as as it's going and so that that was really helpful to have that happen early in our marriage that it was like oh wait a second that's not going to lead us anywhere good so
Laird Hamilton
We might as well deal with everything on the spot as we go. Well and we had high compression in the when we first got together because the way our schedules were and the way our lives were we were 24/7 7 days a week. It wasn't like she's going to work and then I'm going to work and then thing like that and then people take you know eight eight 10 years before they actually have three years together. We had like three years together all day long every day and so you get you find out stuff quickly that you might not that things might drag out for years and then you and you don't get resolution you don't come to you know you don't get conflict you don't whatever it is you just things get kind of swept under or I got you know I would do this right now but I got to go do something and then before you know it that's still there it's
Gabby Reece
Still living still growing. But you haven't dealt with that.
Ken Rideout
Yeah it's interesting that you say that cuz I since I started working from home during COVID it our relationship definitely changed and it took a long time. Did you guys like seek therapy did you or did you work it out on your own?
Gabby Reece
We did it the old fashioned way you know we white knuckled it and Oh. you know like I said almost got divorced and then you think well my my natural way of doing it isn't going to serve me or this relationship so maybe I need to take a look at myself and and some of my programming and see if I could try to do it a little different.
Ken Rideout
Well that's interesting because anytime I have a serious disagreement with my wife I get so angry that I then turn all the anger on myself and decide like no I have to figure out what am I doing that's warranting this behavior from you regardless of what I think about it and when I do that I can always figure out like okay as mad as I am at you I'm going to like figure it out what I'm doing wrong and it and it it it's worked. It's not easy to get to that point but we also went to um a couple's therapy weekend retreat and it was like it helped massively.
Oh it did. Oh my god well Well at first
Started out horribly. I literally was like that's it I'm leaving that's it I can't do this and as I was like walking around outside thinking like do I really want to like end my marriage and I didn't and I was like oh I'm going back in there and I just went back in reluctantly and I swear by the time we left our relationship was never better. I for some reason we needed to get out whenever we needed to get out and it wasn't like there were any new revelations just having like a third party there to be like you know what you should try and think about it like this and maybe you should try this and at the end I was like you know what I want to be married I don't want to have this and and and most of the problems are stemming from ego in relationships that everyone is like wants to be right and and when you grow up you
Know certainly the way I grew up with an unhealthy with an unhealthy family to say the least whether we like it or not we mirror a lot of the behaviors that we know and then I catch myself and I'm like what the how could I and when I think about the way my parents treated each other and my mother and my stepfather I'm just like I when I see myself doing anything that reminds me of that I'm so disgusted with myself I'm like I got to like take a step back and realize that there's another person here who has a opinion as well and stop being married to the idea that I'm right and she's wrong.
Laird Hamilton
Mhm. Yeah that right thing what was it be right 10,000 times and see what kind of relationship you have? Yeah. I'm like I'm right I'm like I'm right I'm right you righted yourself right out of a relationship too. Sometimes it you know I think too if you can even if you're right just be like I'm sorry. Yeah. Like you can be right and say you're sorry. I'm right I know I know I mean you know what and then you can fight over if you're right or not cuz you can think you're right and actually not be right and you can actually be right and think you're not.
So again it's all those little nuances but even if you're like I know I'm right and you can prove you're right it's like you know what I'm sorry. Like I don't need to be right. Like you want to be right or you want to be happy? I'm I'm way more prideful. Yeah.
Gabby Reece
I am way more prideful and Well woman. You've taught me
Ken Rideout
Woman.
Gabby Reece
Laird has taught me like but also the thing is that I think is important for couples is if I go to Laird with real feelings cuz it they can be just my feelings it doesn't mean he did anything right or wrong um or I can come to him with things and he also makes it safe. I don't get hit over the head with it in a week I don't get punished for it in the moment and all that does is encourage that that behavior so I learn I taught me that it's it isn't a weakness to say sorry or I'm not going to get punished for saying sorry and so that really was helpful.
Ken Rideout
One thing that I'm curious about because of your book the background that you've described as as being children yourself right in the way you guys grew up I similar to the way I grew up. My wife on the other hand grew up in the perfect family like they were awesome like that was I think to a certain extent I almost saw her as like the mom I never had and her family was the family I never had and they're like such lovely people all of them.
So when we had children I knew that I wanted her to be the mom to my children I knew she knew what to do with everything and it was like a learning curve steep learning curve for me. I was not very good in the first few years. I just I was just wasn't good and it took a while to figure things out but I'm curious for you too when you had kids like did you guys talk about like how you wanted to raise kids and have like a plan or you like figuring out as you go or Well I think all parents truthfully figure it out as they go cuz each child is a such a different personality on top of it but I I think the thing Laird and I have naturally cuz listen we could be let's say we're smart let's just say that we were smart and that emotionally also intelligent enough to navigate this marriage and some other things.
Gabby Reece
I think we're naturally really lined up on a lot of areas. Yeah. So that's not credit to us that is a credit to our value system and so I think we brought that into parenting.
Ken Rideout
Where do you think you developed that value system because if you didn't learn it from necessarily from your parents or your childhood how do you think cuz I get asked that question a lot cuz I have a brother who's 11 months younger who's like been in and out of prison his whole life never had a job and we grew up in the same conditions same house same everything but from my youngest childhood memory I was like I'm not supposed to be here like I'm not I I don't even think I'm related to these people and when I got out of there I like never went never looked back.
So where do you think you guys got the to develop your value system?
Gabby Reece
Well Laird had a really good mom and mother nature and he I think Laird is also naturally born a really truthful person that's his nature.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. You know we joke Laird's not a politician you know he's not out here trying to win friends. That's what I that's honestly one thing I love about him is that he doesn't have a bazillion he he has friends everyone is Laird's friends they love him but he's not like people ask me is Laird your friend I'm like he's my friend if I called him he'd probably call me back but I wouldn't call him and ask him to like take me surfing or do something crazy.
I joke with him about it but I'm like there's something about having friends where you know who they are like it that's
Gabby Reece
not like But if you're if you were in a building that was burning Laird would come and get you out. 100% that's exactly right.
That's who Laird really is.
Ken Rideout
But if you're asking me if he's my friend so that I can introduce you so you can go surfing with him then no he's not my friend.
Gabby Reece
And I I I for me it was a little different. I had a lot of surrogate adults that stepped into my life that were really important. Um like a couple from Long Island. I had coaches. I had friends of my family. And I think that really helped me. And um and I think having faith, quite frankly, a North Star of feeling something at like, you know, 15 or 16, like, "Hey man, there's something much bigger than me." And like, what are the rules of engagement?
And could I orient my life and use that as a playbook when I have to make decisions on my own to try to make the right decision.
Ken Rideout
When you were growing up, Laird said your mom trained dolphins. Yeah. So, amongst other things.
Gabby Reece
Yeah. But Um my mother I lived with my mom till I was about 2. And And we were in Mexico City and I got whooping cough or whooping cough. And um my parents were not together. Your mother was training dolphins in Mexico City at
In a circus. Oh, okay. She was quite young, uh maybe 24 or something at that time. And I think she did certainly the best she could, but she placed me with neighborhood friends of hers that she grew up with in Long Island. So, for 5 years I lived with this couple that used to hang out with her when they were like 16. Yeah. And so, I lived with them In Mexico City or in No, in Long Island.
Laird Hamilton
Long Island dropped her off at her friend's house and
Gabby Reece
Went there.
I'll see you soon. Yeah. With the whooping cough? Well, I got better. Oh, okay. And then during that time my father died in a plane crash when I was 5. So, well, I mean, and so, anyway, so I I had those that them come in and then my mom remarried. My stepfather was very nice to me. Um and then I would have, like I said, friends of the family. Then I had high school coach that was really good to me. A principal from high school in Florida that was really good to me, let me live with him and his family my senior year so I could stay and do sports at their school.
Oh my god. So, it was like there was a lot of really incredible people if I could recognize it. It took me late It took me later to fully really appreciate all of them. But I think that that was, you know, my the the way That was just my path.
Ken Rideout
And were you just naturally athletic or did it what any of these families that you stayed with along the way really into sports and they kind of lit the fire or were you just always like, "No, I'm playing sports." No, it never really occurred to me till I was a junior in high school. Really? Yeah, I mean, I was a big kid. I was 6 ft at 12. But I I wasn't
Laird Hamilton
Mother's a great swimmer and
Gabby Reece
A good athlete and she's very She was like 6 2.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, so she's a natural athlete.
Gabby Reece
I wasn't like an organized sport.
Laird Hamilton
You. If she was, it probably would be a lot more severe. No, it And you would she she would have lost others other skills.
Gabby Reece
Yeah. It's probably why I'm more well-rounded. Because I It didn't occur You grew up in the Virgin Islands. Nobody was aspiring to go and do anything in sports.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. I mean, I think we have that one of the things that we have in common is we grew up on islands. Her island time helped because I grew up on an island and just the way the community is on the island has a big effect. You're You're around adults and young people. Everybody's together. When you go somewhere, so you get to see a lot and learn a lot quickly when you're young. Uh you're exposed to it. It's not like, "Hey, all the 14-year-olds are together.
All the 10-year-olds, all the 8-year-olds." And they all go off and play together. No, you're young and you're with the adults. So, you can kind of you learn how to navigate the world like, "Okay, that's maybe not so great. That's Oh, those are good people." You get to see a a diverse group in a small environment and kind of make decisions and maybe how you want to be. I had I had some amazing families growing up that I looked to like, you know, they had mom and dad and you know, it was like you aspired to do that.
But I think our faith, our belief in you know, in the in the divine, in the in the in the uh in the elaborateness of creation and all that stuff. That's our thing cuz that affects our values, how we look at money, how we look at people, how we look at how we act towards other people, how we what we're going to do with our kids, what's important for our kids to know and how to be. It's like my mom was, you know, "Hey, I don't care what you do.
You just do it the best you can to your fullest ability and always be polite and treat the, you know, treat the the the street sweeper as good as the king." You just you So, there are certain things I think that we both had baked in when we met each other. I think that's why it was kind of like lightning bolt.
Gabby Reece
Um but I think what also just occurs to me a lot is I think Laird and I are both pretty disciplined, you know, separately. No, but there's even a discipline in being in a marriage.
And what I mean by that is I think independently, I think both of us are really it's easy for us to recognize that we're really fortunate, first of all, in our lives. Look at our lives and the opportunities we have, but also the fact that we have the opportunity to be together. And when you have that attitude, it you approach the relationship a lot differently because it you are like, "No, this is a real opportunity to spend time with this person." And And that is I think is really helpful because it's not a chore or we have to cuz we got kids and we got stuff.
It's like, "Wow, I I'm really fortunate. I get to be with this person." Yeah, well, that's a good way to look at it.
Laird Hamilton
But it's like a reframing, too. Like Gabby has a thing where you say you don't have to, I get to. Mhm. You don't have to, I get to. That's just a reframe. All you're doing is it's same picture, just reframe it instead of something like, "Hey, I get to be with Gabby. I don't have to be."
Ken Rideout
Cuz I don't.
Laird Hamilton
And she doesn't either, really. But I get to. And so, in a way, if you look at it, that's just a reframe. All you're doing is you're just approaching it on a more positive
Laird Hamilton
You know, whatever. We didn't have a lot of organized sports where I was growing up. I mean, it was on Kauai. Okay. I mean, there was organized sports, but it was they were In town. Yeah, and they were and they were a little more kind of already they had the people. They were kind of in control. I was like a I definitely was would be coming in as an outsider coming into it. So, I wasn't like I was going to go do something with a bunch of friends of mine that I knew that everybody And the times I did play was that it was that scenario.
I got a couple buddies, "Hey, you come play basketball after school." And I never, you know, it's like I didn't have a basketball court near my house. It rained all the time. The one outside was like There was never I wasn't shooting baskets, you know, in my driveway. So, there was none of that. Plus, if the waves were up, you didn't have basketball practice.
I grew up at a pig farm, right? So, I grew up next to a pig farm. And we used to I used to go with the old man and drive in this old beat-up truck to the restaurants and collect all the slop cans and then bring those back and cook those and feed the pigs and then kill pigs, breed pigs. Like I mean, and so, like when you talk about growing up, in a way, learning how to do everything. I mean, we used to straighten nails.
I grew up with chainsaws and knives. I mean, I would get cut every week from a cane knife, a sickle, a dagger, whatever. I just was like I mean, I was just You were in the We were in the bushes and barely any clothes, no shoes, and then just you just learn how to do stuff. You because you just there was You broke your bike, you didn't get a bike. You maybe get one, you know, you got a You'd be lucky if you got one every every couple Christmases.
It would be a big deal and you'd break the thing cuz you you know, you're trying to So, you're always having to fix things.
Ken Rideout
It off something.
Yeah, exactly. I was going to say. It's funny to have like a collection of friends as you're older in life and just think how the different worlds that everyone has come from. And this place, especially coming to your house, is like the most eclectic melting pot of personalities, but the one thing everyone has in common is they're all serious about taking care of their number one responsibility, their own mental and physical health, and they're all disciplined. And there is something about finding that finding your tribe.
And for me, it happened late in life. I mean, I was probably 45 before I ever like anyone thought of me as someone who was disciplined in exercise. Although, I always exercised and was athletic. I played sports in college, but not very good. And it wasn't until I like got sober and and started really being serious about my fitness and taking it seriously and being like, "No, I'm not a participant in life. I'm a competitor. I'm not just here to like, 'Oh, that guy was out surfing.'" Like, "No, I want to be the best surfer.
I want to win at everything." Whether that's healthy or not, I don't know, but it certainly has changed my life for the better. And one of the things like I was saying that I love coming here is the eclectic people that that I have met here is crazy. When I try to explain it to people they're like, "Wait a minute, who was there?" I'm like, "Dude, it's crazy. Like it's just like you never know who's going to show up here." How does the Because people then always ask, "How can I come to one of those workouts?" And I'm like, "You can't." I'm like I'm not I'm not going to be responsible for anyone.
Laird Hamilton
We live here and we're surprised who comes to the gate. Sometimes the gate opens and you're like, who okay, like yeah. But it maybe I think part of that is that attraction to is is because we have that's we we project that, right? We have an open gate. The gate opens, they come through. They might turn around and have to go back out quickly, but they might not. They might come in and you know, Gabby, we say omelets for strangers. It's like, you know, we I think that that's I mean, I feel she feels natural that way doing that.
She's even better than me. I grew up that way like that's very Hawaiian style. That's very island style. That's the the kind take you in and feed you and you know, just people being hospitable to you and and I think to be in a position to be able to do that is such a luxury. Like that's such a beautiful thing that you can actually provide that kind of because I've had that provided for me. She had it provided for her in her life. Like people take you in when you're younger and feed you every night and you know, it's like I have friends that I've known that you know, every night they just feed me.
Ken Rideout
I go there and you know, his wife would make the biggest meals and just okay, Laird here, you know, and it's like you just be you know, and you you you didn't you didn't have the ability to even eat and they'd feed you all the time. So I think that I think that's part of it and that attracts other kind of unique And it's also good for us because it's keeping your mind open and learning from other people. Uh I think it's important because, you know, I I love that saying um Mark Cuban said his dad said, you you know, you don't live in the world you're born into.
And the world is changing. So besides our our young adult daughters who keep us kind of you know, letting us know what's happening. It's all of this influence from all these people. They know something, they share it with you. It's really nice. You know, when I first moved here I same time as Rob Rob Moore moved here coincidentally. That's we met here. And we used to ride our bikes past up there and go all the time. And the amount of times when we ride by and there would be like millions of cars and I would always say to Rob, I'm like, "Dude, who the F lives there?
They're having a rager every time." Little did I know there everyone was just exercising.
Laird Hamilton
rager at, you know, Saturday morning getting after it.
Ken Rideout
Every time I came by I'd be like, "Dude, there's a million people in there." I'm like, "I've got I Who lives there do you think?" Him and I'd be like, "I don't know." So it's funny that when we eventually came here I was like, "Can you believe how many times we were like, what the hell's going on in there?" And we were sitting in the sauna one time and we were talking to Brie.
Brie, what's her last name? Larson. Larson, yeah. And I said we leave and I said to Rob, I go, "Dude, that girl Brie was really pretty, huh?" He's like, "You know, she won an Oscar." I'm like, "What?" And I'm like, "You're kidding?" And he's like, "Yeah." And the other guy that was the writer, Neil Strauss, that was like the crazy. And I think was there a the guy who wrote Braveheart?
Gabby Reece
Oh, yeah, Randall Wallace is one of the original.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, he's the OG. We get him sometimes, yeah. Listen to this. So so we're sitting in the sauna and we're talking something about me working at a prison cuz up and he's asking me million questions. He's he's an older guy, right? So I go oh, what do you do? He's like, oh, I'm a writer. And I go, what kind of writer? Like books, movies? Screenplays. And I'm like, oh, cool. Do you have you written anything that I might know? He's like, have you ever seen Braveheart?
I was like I just thought that that was like perfectly summarized this place perfectly. Like the Braveheart?
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, but you're the perfect person. That's that's the kind we need because nobody can appreciate that more those types of people can appreciate when somebody comes in and just like, "Hey, what do you do?" and not be like and I think that's really important to remind all of us that we're just people. And then you know what? To you, to someone else, they don't know who you are. They don't and and when you have the mentality that you expect somebody to know who you are because you've done something and I don't care who you are that that you've you've kind of detached from your actual position that you're just a person.
We're all just people and it doesn't matter what how much how what thing and who knows. It's just and I think that that's it's beautiful. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. And people are hungry for that actually. If they're not, then they they got they need to go to that therapy thing, you know, they need some they need some
Ken Rideout
I went to couples therapy. Listen, on the surface I would have been like, oh, couples therapy, but I was like, I don't want to get divorced and if that if this is something that might work, I don't care.
I'll shovel against the tide. Like I want to win. And if that means going to couples therapy, I went to like an intensive, you know, the Hoffman Institute. I went to a similar one called Onsite. And it's funny like it's it's in my book and and I've spoken to this guy about it, but Eric Decker was my roommate there and we became like best friends. Like I love the guy and we were both like, oh my god, what are we doing here? It was like I was going to the electric chair driving myself there out in the boondocks outside of Nashville, but it was the best thing that I ever did for myself because like I said earlier, your top responsibility in the world is taking care of yourself.
Like no one can tell you to work out. No one can tell you what you should eat today. No one's telling you you should eat liver. It's up to you to do that and it's like, yeah, they they'll they they'll call you crazy while you're doing your crazy training and eating healthy diet and then when you win and and something good happens they'll think you're lucky and you're like, no, no, I've been working to this is there's a method to the madness here. And it's like the people that like we were talking about earlier about people that leave nasty comments.
It's like anyone that has the energy to be negative towards someone else has so little going on in their own life cuz even if I thought someone was crazy I'd be like, oh, they're crazy. Like but I'm not going to waste my time telling them they're crazy. I'm going to focus on my own my own I'm crazy enough by myself. I don't need to tell you how crazy you are, but it's shocking to me how many people go out of their way to leave a negative comment about someone.
Laird Hamilton
I'm like, how bored are you with your life?
Gabby Reece
Yeah, and it's now become almost like a subculture.
Laird Hamilton
Yes. Well, it's also what they're doing. Like what did you do today? Well, I critiqued a bunch of people and told them how I policed the planet. how bad they were and by the way, frowning takes 48 muscles and smiling takes 23. So it was a lot more taxing. So I was really hungry after and I slept amazing because, you know, I used a lot of energy up being negative cuz it takes a lot of energy.
Ken Rideout
So where where do you want to Laird's not even online.
Laird Hamilton
You know, there's a good I'll tell you I'm going to share something I heard recently that you'll really appreciate that luck and chance are law and not understood. Luck and chance are law and not understood. And so like, you know, you said somebody oh, you did all this stuff and then you won and then they're like, oh, he's lucky and then you're like, no, that's law not understood. They don't know the law. You you were doing something that the law rewarded you with the victory. And it's just just cuz you don't understand everybody we all that's lucky.
Gabby Reece
He did you know, People say that all the time to me like, oh, I wish I could be like Laird like I get to surf for a living and do whatever. I'm like, if you had to train the way Laird trains or you were willing to risk your life 100%. I'm like, cuz somebody said that something to me and I go, yes, but that's also connected somebody who's been willing to risk their life for 40 years or more.
Ken Rideout
Well, Cam Haines always talks about people saying to him must be nice and I go, Oh.
Must be nice. Mother effort, it is nice. I love the life I created for myself. It wasn't nice when I was wallowing in my addiction for 10 years contemplating suicide cuz I wasn't happy with who I was because I didn't want to do the work that needed to be done on the inside. But now that I did it, yes, it is nice. I was I I gave a speech this morning at Western Asset Management and I said to them I go, 10 10 years ago I would have stabbed someone in the neck to get a job here.
It would have been my dream job to work here in marketing and have this job. I say now, I'm unhireable. You could not hire me. I said I've built a life out of necessity. I've done it myself out of necessity cuz I couldn't get anyone to give me a chance to do something that I didn't really want to do, but I thought it would be a means to an end. And out of necessity I created a life that I couldn't dream of. I said I never work.
I say to my wife once a week, "Can you believe I don't work?" She's like, well, I thought you said you had to go to LA and do all this stuff. I go, "You think that's work?" I'm like, "I'm going to talk to Laird and Gabby." I'm like, "What a privilege. I get to give a speech and get paid to do it. I get paid to talk uninterrupted to 100 people and tell them how great I am. Okay, I'm going to tell them all the mistakes I made first, but I don't care.
I they're already made. Once I tell you about them, what are you going to do? Tell me I'm a loser? Yeah, no I have 10 years of evidence of why I was a loser. But now I'm not a loser. And that's the one thing I like about you guys is you seem to attract like-minded people that just want to win. Whatever winning is to them and winning I always stress to people it doesn't mean winning a running race. Like I don't even care. I'm not I don't think of myself as a runner.
It's just something I was doing to like express myself athletically. It's winning could be just finishing a race if you're not the kind of person that runs a race. But if you've run races and been competitive, you should want to like do as well as you can. So winning is always relative and like you said, you never competed at surfing, but if someone thinks of surfing, you're the first person I think of. It's like, yeah, this guy never competed, but he competed against himself in the in the waves and enough so that people now are like, must be nice to surf all day.
Laird Hamilton
Like yeah, I built a lot of freaking But but if you look at life like you somebody looks at your life at this moment right now or our our live or just you can just name hundreds of thousands I mean, a lot of people and they can look at the destination. They can say, "Hey, must be nice living up there on Everest." And then you're like, "Yeah, but did you did did you know that have you done have you seen the hike? Like like I know it's cool like from the observation tower, but did you see the hike?
Like did you did you understand the uh you know, and the trail? And I think that's the the part I think that you What do we say? That you we know not their journey. You see people in situations and you like you may envy it or you you may just go, "I'm glad I'm not in that position." But you just don't know the journey and it's I mean I think for me I and I I would I would look that the journey is really the that's the amazing part.
It's like you you wouldn't know, you know, pleasure without pain. You wouldn't know the the the niceness of the thing that you get to do now if you didn't have to deal with the things that you went through. If you just everything went and you were there, you'd be like, "Oh, what's the big deal?" But now you're like you have a country you have a real distinct contrast between what it took to what, you know, it's like I know what it's like to, you know, tin roof and holes, you know, and a holes in the floor of the car and all that stuff.
So I'm like, "Yeah, this these cars that start every day, they're awesome. They run, they start right up and they drive and oh, you got you really have insurance. It's amazing." Like you know, it's like all those things that you could if you And I think it's important that to always keep that in perspective that always to remind yourself. That's why sometimes I I think it's important to come back out and be in the dirt. Like you like you said, "Hey, go run the race." And and okay and you know, like do the things that that are at the bottom.
It's like I said, "No matter what kind of experience I had in my life, I'd always go back to the dirt, go back to the shovel, go back to the excavator, go back to the just just stay keep your hands on the ground no matter what kind of success that you get so that you're always at least you have empathy for the other people that that are in it. Like you can you can relate and go, "Hey, I can I know what it's like to dig a shovel dig a shovel dig a hole." And that guy's digging a hole every day all day long and I can go, "That's tough." And I respect that.
Ken Rideout
You know, Well, the other thing is if if all you're looking at is the end result, whether it's money or a win, and I got news for you. One and you guys know this. Once you have Okay, you won the race. Now what? What are you going to do? Go around and tell everyone, "I won." After the third person, people going to be like, "Get out of here." Like I don't you if you have to tell me how great you are, you suck. And you realize, "No, I'm not trying to win.
It's the process of trying to win that I genuinely love." Sometimes it's love-hate where you're like in it and I'm like I have this race coming up and I'm like, "Hey, you want to go out to dinner?" No, I got to run 25 mi in the morning and it's a hard workout and it's like yeah, sometimes it sucks, but that when I'm in it, I'm like alive. And then you get to validate everything on race day. But if all you're chasing is the win, the day after the win is always depressing cuz I'm like, "I mean, I guess I can enjoy relaxing, but that isn't enjoyable to me." Yeah, I like to sit down and rest after a hard workout, but not just for rest for rest's sake.
Like I'm just going to chill all day. Like no, I'm going to be dead soon. I want to get it all in. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Who's that?
Gabby Reece
Laird always says that to me. He goes, "You know, I have a lot more waves I want to ride."
Yeah. And I'm like, "I can hear you. I hear you I hear that."
Laird Hamilton
Well, and and it's a long race, too. Sometimes I think we're so quick to, you know, approach things like a sprint. And I'm like, this thing's a little bit I mean, maybe there's multiple sprints, but there's a long this life game is a long this is a long run. Like this is it's a short run, but there's some endurance in it that that sometimes I think you know, that takes a certain you got to have you got to have something out in front of you leading you to to keep you uh striving, right?
You you got to have the next race. You got to have the other thing. But whatever it is, you got to have something you got to have the rabbit keeping the that, you know, keeping the greyhounds moving. You got to otherwise, if you don't have that, you just kind of I think you I don't know. I think it just slows you down. I think you just get to the point where you're kind of like, "Okay, well, maybe not today. I'm good." But you have something out there.
Ken Rideout
That's my worst fear cuz that will lead one day leads to two days. At least that was my experience with addiction is like you get on a slippery slope. So I try not to even take the first step of like, "I'm going to take it easy." We were talking about earlier speaking of of of life being a marathon of how important it is to do good business and have good business relationships and have a good reputation and recognize this is a long game. If you think you're here for one deal or one transaction or one partnership, like you are sorely mistaken if you don't think that a bad deal is going to follow you forever because I was telling the people at Western Asset this morning and I'm like, "The person that you might think is a clown in IT and you don't like him and blah blah blah, in three, four, five years, possibly, you're going to go for an interview somewhere and I've
Seen this happen. And you get there and you're like, 'Oh, the hiring manager is best friends with the IT guy. The IT guy is the guy I was an to at at Western.' Guess who's not getting the job? And I said, 'Here's you need an example? Uh several years ago when I was just starting, a guy at uh PIMCO, a big bond trader there. They're a huge behemoth. The guy screamed at me one day about a mistake that he made, but I was the sales guy.
So he I mean, he was like really disrespecting me. And I was like, "I can't believe this guy." So but there's what am I going to do? But the bank needs to do business with him, so I let it go. Couple years later, the guy who hired me to speak, my friend Mike Buchanan, he goes, "Hey, do you know this guy so-and-so from PIMCO?" I'm like, "Yeah, why?" He's like, "Oh, his resume's on my desk." I said, "Listen to me right now. You and I are friends.
If you hire that guy, I'm not your friend." And he was like, "In the trash." And I was like, "Good." And that guy probably thought, "Oh, this guy's a piss ant. He just started as a salesman and I'm the portfolio manager. I'm going to tell him what's up." And I'm like, "Not today. You're not Yeah.
But what goes around comes around. And but that's an extreme example, but it's like like we were talking about earlier. Just like people doing transaction, especially when you're especially with pod- casts and brand partnerships, you meet a lot of people, you do a lot of deals, and all you have to do is just do honest business to preserve your reputation. So easy to do the right thing and recognize that this isn't about money. Anyone who's had a little bit of money knows that guess who comes with you when you got the money?
You. The same person that was unhappy without money is unhappy with money. You just have different things to be unhappy about. Yeah. But it never changes anything. What are some of the things that you guys do uh on a regular basis, if anything, in terms of working on your marriage? Do you guys go away together? Do you go on date nights? No. It's a day it's a daily practice.
Gabby Reece
It is. It's built into our our relationship. So I mean, Do you you want me to Well, or do you have something different?
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, no. No, I think it's
Gabby Reece
Lovemaking. I think love I mean I mean, listen, that's all part of it. The brain The brain goes to the same Yeah, but that Listen, that's a big part of it.
Ken Rideout
That's our language. That's our language. If you're not connected on that, that's a disaster.
Gabby Reece
Yeah, I know. Yeah. And and so That is a disas- That would That would be the Yes, that's been built in and like we've had children, like we've gone through babies, done the whole thing, but I I always say that both Laird and I I of course my family comes first, but I take care of myself and then I am put energy towards the relationship with Laird. It doesn't mean it's got to be oh, you know, I need monumental amounts of flowers or any of that.
I don't care about that stuff.
Yeah, yeah. Um and and and our children and and because it seems to be the order of things to make it easier. If I feel pretty good, I bring her into this dynamic and if we have harmony and peace, then we create that environment for our home for our children. And so I I I feel like we've always done that. We also have the real luxury, let me be clear, of being self-employed pretty much our whole lives. Um and so that doesn't mean we don't have responsibilities cuz we do.
But they're the ones that we have chosen to work really hard at. And so that we don't need to live for the weekend or um you know, take a big holiday because we live in California and Hawaii. Just by being surrounded by nature in itself, I think is therapeutic. So you don't have to like live in New York and say I need to go and just get some space.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. We we I mean, we we do stuff for each other every day. Yeah. So we're always doing little things for each other, whatever.
It could be just the simplest stuff, but we're always doing stuff for each other. We do have moments we'll go walk together or we'll go hyperbaric chamber together. I mean, a lot of emails getting there. Um you know, the the the you know, I mean, we but we have we do have we will go have a dinner and stuff, but we don't have a one thing I think that I feel like and like Gabby said, we have had we've been blessed to be able to have the freedom, but at the same time that could actually lead to more disruption if you weren't cautious.
Um but I I think that the you know, that that we are always there's always an aspect of that we're having some kind of romantic thing and we're not trying to make up for stuff. Yeah. We're not like, "Hey, honey, here's this big new thing I'm buying you cuz I feel bad cuz I've been off doing whatever I'm doing or whatever's going on." And I feel some kind of neglect in there. Um so I I think that you know, it's the consistent, you know, nurturing of the garden, right?
The consistent watering, the consistent weeding, the consistent that that that consistency because that really seems to get you never gets you in too deep into a situation. You just don't because there isn't long enough amount of time for neglect or whatever kind of whatever would undermine the relationship never really gets any kind of real root because you're always
Gabby Reece
getting We also had to when we are in the same place, you know, if I'm not away with work or Laird's away with work or surfing or, you know, is we pretty much have coffee every morning together.
So even if it's just start your day talking, connecting. Laird's been up for a couple hours usually before me and he has he's much more intense than I am in the morning. So that's always fun for me. I walk down and he's like, let me tell you what I read or heard today and I'm just like, whoa. Then he hands me a coffee. So I think those small practices, not forced,
Ken Rideout
just So he didn't you didn't you didn't do anything wrong that caused you to buy her a new car.
Laird Hamilton
Did you didn't she just get a new car? Is that yours? I thought I saw it on on You know, actually I think that was just me me listening to her like, I don't need anything. I don't need anything for a long enough time like with, you know, okay, birthday, I get a nice little thing, but don't get me anything, but I get something, but not it's like, so finally I just crammed everything together. Yeah. Yeah.
Gabby Reece
Merc. I always have loved this car for whatever reason. And so Laird went to see a friend of ours on Kauai and this car was sitting there and he's like, what's with this car? He goes, oh well, my dad just passed and I'm going to sell it and Laird's like, oh no, I want to buy it and then shipped it back here. So it's a '51 Ford. Oh my god, it's so cool. I was I meant to look at it when I came in.
Laird Hamilton
A '51 Ford two-door I haven't driven it yet because the power brakes are not on it.
Gabby Reece
Laird's like, you should drive. I'm like, oh yeah, no, no, no, no. I'll wait. Oh, you were driving it when it was on PCH? It's got Hercules Hercule. You got to you know, it's like it's got real brakes and real steering. Oh my god, it's awesome. Yeah. Then you get in it and it's funny. It has that smell. You know, like, what is that diesel like, what's the smell? It's not diesel, it's a just that gas smell. Yeah, well, it's just old school, you know, and old school carburetor school carburetor and you everything seems a little slower.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Gabby Reece
Like we're driving and all of a sudden it's like we feel like time slows down. We get in and we're all of a sudden we just go Even though you're not going slow. No AC, rolled down the windows, the wind's blowing, you know, it's the whole thing. It's hard to imagine a time when no AC. See all the traffic in LA, no one has AC on in the summer. You look, how do people survive? I know. And also air pollution was way worse then, too. Oh, I can't imagine.
There were second fumes, for sure.
Ken Rideout
Where are the girls living now?
Gabby Reece
Our oldest is in the northwest working. Our middle is here working with us on some work. So now she's sort of bossing us around. And then our youngest is at NYU. Okay. What's she studying? She went in because she did the odds on that if you had studied psychology you would get into NYU easier. So she did that, but she seems like a business person to me.
Ken Rideout
So we'll see. And and is the old the middle one is helping with Laird Superfood?
Gabby Reece
Yeah, and we have some other projects. We have a Hamilton House, which is a new project we're doing. And so she's she's sort of aggressive in us in a way in a in a way that we're not.
I'm excited about Hamilton House.
Ken Rideout
Can you talk about it? Or if you're not ready to talk about that, that's fine, too.
Gabby Reece
We can. We're working on this project that has a physical and digital, not brick and mortar because nobody wants to get into that, but basically taking the iteration of XPT and sort of the next round of things that we've learned because going back to looking at, okay, technology can be a really positive tool, but it's also making people sort of further apart.
Laird Hamilton
So like our house represents Yeah, this is the this is the the prototype.
Gabby Reece
So people like whether they stay at a certain hotel or they buy a residence in a community, we are discussing with a couple several different groups about putting Hamilton Houses where we do all the programming for them. And then there'll be a digital aspect that supports them. So if they travel, they can have their workouts or their breathing or their other things that they want. And so it it really is just the next iteration of you know, Laird is always like, less data, more experience. And so we're just trying to combine the greatest, you know, in class HBots and red beds with, hey, can we just put you in spaces where you're gathering around a coffee or a juice or you're breathing together or doing, you know, some something that ultimately is supportive of your well-being and that is also going to be connecting with other Yeah, food, mind, body, spirit, like Yeah.
Laird Hamilton
You know, so you you have physical part, you have ingestion part that you're taking in then your mind. So like kind of, you know, in a way similar to our what our like I said, our house really represents the the nucleus of it and then we're going to have a couple more to simulate it and then and then we'll expand, but to make it so so kind of what this has evolved naturally to be, but set set them up in some other places so that people can begin to build the community off of that same kind of template.
Ken Rideout
And will you have the kind of recovery tools like red light beds and all that stuff?
Gabby Reece
Oh yeah, oh yeah, like if you go downstairs, we have two red beds, a shift wave chair, a full gym.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, hypoxic machines, like all this all and new stuff. There's all
Ken Rideout
I haven't I got to see that before I go. A hyperbaric chamber, that's the one thing that I'm like, oh, do I want to spend the money on that? My wife will be like, what the hell is this?
Gabby Reece
You do. But it's it's a two-seater, so you can sit in there with her. Oh, really? What happens is we have friends that are injured or they hurt their brain or they have this or long COVID or blah blah blah. And we just go, come to the house.
Yep. Get in the we pop them in. So it's also available to anyone in our lives that needs it because they're not accessible.
And it's people are coming They come all the time. all the time. They're out of surgery, out of surgery, out of this. I mean, whatever. They have a thousand reasons why the hyperbaric's good. And so and we I mean, just our friends and family, we we can run that thing, you And we like that there is data, right? Like there is data. Do you feel better when you get out of it or does it one of those things where like a red light where you don't necessarily feel anything instantly?
I always get sleepy. Yeah. I always from all the oxygen. It's it feel it's you sort of feel it after about a for me it's like a week. And what I always say is the litmus is I'll be walking up the stairs and I'm like, gosh, my knees are feeling pretty good.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. Yeah, so some of it's a little more subtle, especially when you combo it. Like I really feel the red light. Yeah, do that first.
Ken Rideout
The quality of the red light, but you do the red light into the hyperbaric. What brand do you use and do you have a partnership with them? No. No. With the with the red bed? Well, we'll be using LightStim because they have uh they're FDA approved for the efficacy. Yep. Um so right now Maybe one of the few actually cuz there's FD approval and then FD approved for efficacy. And that's a completely different animal. But the quality of the of the light And we're doing Turkish HBots in Hamilton Houses, so.
Cuz they have singles and doubles and So would you talk to a group like Discovery that has those real
Gabby Reece
Well, we have one on in Kauai that we've been building with the North Shore Preserve, which is a Discovery property.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. There's a Discovery property near me in Nashville. Uh it's called the Troubadour. We bought our house in a different club called the Governor's Club and then I went there and I was like, oh my god, when we moved into the Governor's Club, I'm like, I can't believe we live here.
Look at this house, it's crazy. Then we went to Troubadour, I'm like, we live in the ghetto.
Gabby Reece
That's like somebody said to me, if some somebody came into your town, let's say you lived in a small town and they said, Gabby, we're going to give you a hundred million dollars. I'd be like, amazing. And then they'd say, but we're giving everyone else a billion.
Laird Hamilton
Isn't that funny? That is funny. How it makes you Well, what they say, comparison is the death of happiness.
Gabby Reece
Yeah, but I just thought that was so funny the way they framed it that way. I thought, oh, it's so funny.
Ken Rideout
Well, as I like it also when people like, what if if I give you a hundred million dollars, but you only have a month to live? You'd be like, no way. And then you're like, well, how much would you have to take for a month? You're like, no amount. And then you realize like the only thing that matters is time. And it's not money. It's regardless of what people think cuz it's like, what would Like where I'm at in my life right now and and I'm I'm not trying to brag.
I'm just like, I have everything that I need. Would I love to have a Ferrari and a Lamborghini and the money to do all those things? Yeah, but at the end of the day, like, what happens when you have those things? Like you have this nice car. You drive it. And then I'm like, man, I hope it doesn't break down. Then I got to like worry about getting it fixed. And it's like it's kind of like this catch-22. You want all this stuff, but I don't want to think about stuff.
Gabby Reece
Both Laird and I are always trying to calibrate of like expanding your life and how do you keep trying to keep it simple? It's very it's an interesting calibration.
Ken Rideout
Yes, cuz I I I like nice stuff, but then you realize like, why do I like it? Cuz I want people to think like, oh, he has a nice watch. And then I realize anyone that would think that, I don't even want to be friends with them. So I catch myself and I'm like, but I do like nice stuff, but why?
Gabby Reece
But if you like if let's say for example, you you like really get excited about some watch and when you see it, it brings you delight, the craftsmanship, then have the watch.
Ken Rideout
If that reason is real, a hundred percent.
Gabby Reece
If it's because, hey, if I wear the watch and then I Laird's like, nice watch. But if you're like, man, do you see the action on this and it's so it's like, okay, and there are people like that.
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. But but those are rare. But I I like watches. Once I started having kids, I didn't wear them anymore cuz they'd pick up babies and hit them. But I do have a few watches that I really got a lot of delight from. I know. I saw you like it. I was like, oh, I got to get that for her. Very observant. Well, we're going to talk more offline about Hamilton House. I have a a million thoughts running through my mind, but I love what you're doing.
Ken Rideout
I am I'm incredibly honored that you guys let me talk to you. I want to be mindful of your time and uh it's a a privilege and an honor to be friends with you guys. I love you both. And like I said, I promise I'm never going to bring anyone to work out here. So if you're listening to this thinking I'm going to ask Ken to introduce me, no. That's not true. You can be the Yeah, you can be the portal cuz you know what? It's the portal.
Laird Hamilton
So, you're the portal. So, when you decide you're going to bring someone, remember you're responsible for them. So, their conduct may affect your resume.
Some people. Well, that's what Gabby said to me. No, I have. I've invited people and I was like and then they and then cuz we if something happens and let's say let's say there's some you know, we have some so-called special people over and then you somebody's there and they
Gabby Reece
To make a deal.
Laird Hamilton
Trying to make a deal with them or something happens and then we just look over at the and we'll be like, "Who's the portal?"
Ken Rideout
The portal? Are you the portal? You got to handle this.
Gabby Reece
I usually if it's me, I usually would just go, "Hey, I'm I am the portal, you know."
Ken Rideout
Well, when I first came here, you said to me like feel free to come anytime and bring anyone over, but you're responsible for them and I was like, "That's all I need to know to know it ain't happening." I can't There's very few people I can feel responsible for, but uh But you're a bright light, Gabby. I appreciate you.
Laird Hamilton
Honored. We appreciate you.
Gabby Reece
A great reminder that we all have all the sides. And I always say it's it it's not that I don't have the side. It's the opportunity to live in the side our best selves. And uh and when we were talking about relationships, it's like ultimately also I am a better version of myself Lair brings that out in me. Yeah. And so I think in relationships, I think that's hopefully one of the goals is that you're bringing out the better sides. Cuz I have the I have bad sides.
You know, I'm just trying not to live and let her dictate.
I'm trying to stay in the the the positive side.
Laird Hamilton
Have but that the we'll never have a day where we're not having the battle with the two fields. You'll just do you got the one voice whispering, "Hey, just yeah, don't go make a do thing." And then and then you got the light the higher one going, "No, you got to work on them thing and do the thing." And "Oh, no, but you can just go over here." And "No, got to just And and that will never That never ends. That you doesn't end. It's just that who you know, there's a great parable I heard and I'll share this with you at the end which is you know, you have the man and the lion and when a man eats the lion and becomes a man, this is great.
But when the lion eats the man and becomes a man, this is bad. And so, it's like we have the man in us and we have the lion. And so, the primal part and the spiritual. And when the spiritual part can eat the primal part and become the spiritual part, this is great. But when the primal part eats the spiritual part and becomes the primal part,
Yeah. this is not great. So, and I think
You and I can relate to that.
Gabby Reece
Very much.
Laird Hamilton
And know that like the choices that and everybody has it. We all have to to walk that line and and deal with that every single day and can you find your you know, can you take it's like, "Hey, just take your wine bottle and put your Pellegrino bottle. Take your addiction to whatever that you think is bad and put something good in there." It's still the same energy, the same passion, the same thing. Just one of them's not killing you and ruining your life. The other one's you know, making your life great.
Ken Rideout
So,
You know what's funny? When people say to me, "Oh, you have an addiction to running." Like it's an addiction. People are like, "Yeah." But the last addiction I had had me suicidal. And I like was literally contemplating ending my life. And this addiction has me writing a best-selling memoir. It has me having friends that I genuinely love and respect and they love me, too. Which is hard for me to believe. So, yeah. I I think you're right. And and I think that people try to vilify the the new addiction and whether it's working out.
It's always someone who doesn't doesn't work out. That's like, "Oh, you're working out too much." Okay, thanks. I like kind of like the way my life's going right now. Thank you.
Laird Hamilton
Yeah. No, that's why I said we that that mechanism we look at that addictive mechanism as something negative. It's just when there's negative thing in it. Just put the positive thing in there and then it's like, "Okay, well, now I'm addicted to good food, working out, going to sleep early. So, what now? Oh, okay, well, yeah, that's got to be bad." Cuz again, that just you force people to look at the mirror.
Ken Rideout
And that's about it. Yeah.
Laird Hamilton
And then you have to define what fun is. I I've been through that. I've had I had that. I'm no fun. Soon as I stopped drinking, all my so-called friends were like, "Oh, you're just no fun anymore." I'm like, "Why? Cuz I'm not just you know, shit-faced drunk with you every night?" I guess not.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Haven't seen the sun come up in in ages cuz I'm hungover. Now I'm like up with the sun. There's nothing makes me feel happier than seeing the sun come up. Because when I was like in the not the not my opioid addiction when I was an adult, but when I was got out of college and was partying with my friends and we'd be all drinking and doing coke, I'd see the sun come up and I would be literally suicidal. I'm like, "I got to get out of here.
I I I'm panicking. I'm like, I just ruined the whole day." They're like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, "I haven't even fallen asleep yet and the sun's already up." I'm like, "I'm I've wasted a day in my life. I'm never going to get it back." And I value time.
Laird Hamilton
The only thing to value.
Ken Rideout
Well, thank you thank you again and I look forward to getting in the pool and embarrassing myself in the near future. Well, so we look forward to We'll be honored to have you.
Key takeaways
- Serious surf preparation depends on a trusted team and repeated work before entering the water.
- Fear can sharpen attention when a person accepts risk and knows the plan.
- Raise relationship problems early, speak directly, and repair them before resentment builds.
- Their marriage relies on trust and small daily attention, not grand gestures.
- Visible success hides the effort, difficult periods, and choices behind it.
Nowhere to Hide
A weekly letter from Ken Rideout about doing the uncomfortable part, and the reasons we use to avoid it.
It starts with 3 Days, 3 Hard Things: one short story from Ken and one hard thing to do, every day for three days. Then one letter a week.
One letter a week. Unsubscribe any time. We never share your email.
