Episode · Apr 22, 2026 · 1 hr 5 min

Broken, Beat and a World Title

with “Irish” Micky Ward

Micky Ward is a former world boxing champion who worked as a corrections officer while building his career.

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“Everyone's scared. I don't care who you are, how good you are.”

Micky Ward

Summary

Micky Ward talks about working as a corrections officer at Billerica while training and fighting. He remembers learning under his brother Dicky Eklund, the nerves before fights, early losses, and being written off before winning a title. Ken asks how Ward learned to control fear and keep fighting when promoters kept matching him with tougher opponents.

Later, Ward and Ken discuss the family story behind The Fighter, including Ward's sisters, Dicky's past, and changes the filmmakers made. They revisit the first Arturo Gatti fight, focusing on the close scorecards, Ward's knockdown of Gatti in the ninth round, and the exhausting tenth. Ward describes injuries from the trilogy and how mutual respect grew into friendship. The conversation ends with his life after boxing and return to construction work.

Show notes

I've known Micky Ward for a long time. Before the fights people saw. Before the movie.

This is a guy who was working as a corrections officer while trying to make it in boxing. Getting written off. Used as an opponent. Walking away from the sport… and coming back anyway.

We talk about the part people don't understand — the fear.

He'll tell you straight up, everyone's scared. Anyone who says they're not is lying.

The difference is he learned how to control it and still go forward.

We get into Round 9 of the first Gatti fight — what it actually felt like to be in there, hurt, exhausted, and still making the decision to fight.

We talk about his family, what the movie got right and wrong, and what it takes to keep going when everything in you is telling you to stop.

This one is about endurance. Not talent.

Just deciding you're not done.

Read the transcript

Transcript

Made from YouTube's automatic captions and lightly corrected, so a few words and names may be off. Click a time to play the video from there.

Ken Rideout

Irish Micky Ward, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ken. Nice to see you, buddy. It's great to see you, the pride of Lowell. That's Dicky.

Dicky Eklund. Yeah. Wakka. It's funny when I tell people that you and I are friends and we talk about the movie The Fighter when they show the scenes of Christian Bale playing Dicky when he's in Billerica. I'm like, that's the exact time period where I was working there with you as you and I were corrections officers.

Exactly. And it's always funny people don't realize that you were a correction officer there. They don't work it into the film, but that was a that's an interesting part of the story that they left out.

Micky Ward

Yeah, it is. It's funny because that's how we met.

Ken Rideout

Yeah.

Micky Ward

Back then and that was uh '89, I think.

Yeah, 1989. And uh yeah, so and people don't know that that I worked there and stuff and uh but uh it was good though, you know. Learned a lot, seen a lot like, you know. It was a good part of my life back then, you know what I mean? It was a piece of my life back then, but uh you know, obviously I wanted to fight and it was just too too hard to train and like work being on your feet all day. You know how it was working in the day room and we never got to go out in the ball field cuz we we were like and then when I went to you we went out in the ball field, but in the summer we got put in.

So, it was like it was hard, so I couldn't I I couldn't really train right.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. When I try to explain to people what it was like working there for I don't know if it's a Boston thing or what, but that the guards and the corrections officers all had like siblings and and family and they're like my stepfather had been in there, my brother ended up in there right after I stopped there, thank god.

Yeah. But that Dicky was there while you were working, right?

Micky Ward

Yeah. Him and my cousin. My cousin was in there. Such a crazy place.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, it's tough. I remember when we were working there together and I think what what year did you fight Shea Neary?

Micky Ward

I fought Shea Neary in 2000. Oh, okay. So, it was a while after that. Yeah, it was Yeah, it was a lot before that.

Ken Rideout

And you you were just getting What year did you start Did you start fighting fresh? Oh, so you were just starting fighting fresh?

Micky Ward

Yeah, I think I was I had like five or six pro fights or so. Something like that, yeah.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. Cuz I remember seeing that fight with Shea Neary. I think it's it's the Arturo Gatti fight, the first one obviously was incredible, but that was the Shea Neary fight was one of my favorites because he was like a huge favorite, right?

Micky Ward

Yeah, he was. Yeah, Emanuel Augustus, too, was a fighter that we had fighter of the year. That was just as good as the Gatti fights. And we got fighter of the year that in 2000 for that one, but uh no, I'm sorry, it was 2001.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. But the Shea Neary fight, he was what what what title did he have?

Micky Ward

The WBU. Yeah. A world title, yeah. It was it was big at at the time the WBU, but uh it's all it has slowed down now or whatever, but uh a lot of good fighters had it back then, like I think uh some big names got had it back then, and then it I think it when John Robinson, the guy that uh started it.

Yeah. The guy from over in uh England, I believe. When John Don passed away, it kind of went downhill.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. Let's start from the beginning though. You grew up in Lowell. Mhm. Were you boxing your whole life as a kid?

Micky Ward

Yeah. I started uh when I was seven. Dicky took me down to the gym when I was seven. How much older is Dicky?

Dicky's eight years older than me.

Ken Rideout

Okay. Yeah.

So, you're seven, he's 15, and he's and he's boxing in the amateurs.

Micky Ward

Yeah, yeah. He's still in the images and Junior Olympics or whatever you want to call it. And uh so, I started at seven. My first fight was uh Joey Roach at Linwood House outside. Pepe's brother? Yeah.

Pepe Roach and uh Freddy Roach's brother. Yeah. We fought we got rained out in the second round cuz it was outside. Yeah, it got rained out. And they used to have a lot of fights over there. Yeah.

So, that was my first fight, yeah.

Ken Rideout

And was Dicky was always training you?

Micky Ward

Dicky always trained me, yeah. I obviously I had other trainers like uh when I was at the West End, Arthur would train me, or Rollie Fiset would train me, yeah. I got in the Brooks back then would train me. You know, not train me fully, but help me and stuff like that. Like I said, Mickey Carney was about in there at the time, and a lot of trainers.

Ken Rideout

During the in the movie, they made out like there was huge conflict between Dicky and whoever was training you in the in the film.

Was it was was it like

Micky Ward

Mickey O'Keefe Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was it like that when you were when you were a kid if if Dicky was like on vacation or something or doing something Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and someone else would train you when he come back and be like all right guys everyone out of here now I'm back. No. No. Not at all. It wasn't conflict. No. No. No. Dicky you know more. When he was when he was away camp you know I I whoever would train me you know he was all for it because you know I was getting good work and long as you long as you know you know he knew he would be my trainer when he got out or whatever so uh No.

He never he he didn't mind it at all. And how old were you the first time you had to go away? I don't know. 20 maybe. Oh okay. So you weren't a little kid. You were you were a young adult.

No. No. I had other family members that yeah.

Ken Rideout

Oh okay. But but but it was it I'm just wondering like when Mickey when when when Dicky would leave would you kind of feel like lost or disoriented?

Micky Ward

I know when No. No. Not at all because uh I just did what he always taught me and I knew that I he'd be coming back. Yeah. You know what I mean? So No. You know what's funny Kenny is I'm more I'm kind of uh I can train as hard with Dicky not being there than Dicky's there.

Obviously he's going to push me and and he's there to show me and and learn and teach me. And he'll push me but I can push myself just as much. Maybe not like him. I shouldn't say that but but I but I'm one of those guys that can I'll push myself even though he's not there because I know if I don't I'm the one that's in this.

Ken Rideout

You know what it feels like when

Micky Ward

My if I don't kill myself I I'm going to get that tired and I don't want to do that.

Ken Rideout

That's right. So I always push myself. You know what it feels like to run out of gas in the air is fatigue makes cowards out of everyone.

Micky Ward

Coward of all men. I don't care who you are big and strong. If you get tired you become a baby. I don't care who says that. Oh no, No. That's [ __ ]

Ken Rideout

If you've been in the If you've even been in amateur even sparring, you know when you're tired and the other guy sees you getting tired, it's almost like he gets a second wind and you're like, "Oh my god, this is just getting worse by the second." Exactly.

But that's the motivation, right? To train your cardio on your own.

Yeah. Yeah. I always say when I'm running in a race and and I start to get tired and people ask me, "Oh, what what what do you do when you hit the wall?" I'm like, "I remind myself that no one's trying to punch my face and realize that this is no problem at all for me."

Yeah, you got to go. You just got to keep moving. And then how old were you when you turned professional?

Micky Ward

I was uh 19 when I turned pro, yeah.

Ken Rideout

And and you kind of had up and down career until you still had a couple big wins. Like what was your record going into the Shane Mosley fight?

Micky Ward

I had I was 14 and 0 when I lost to my first fight, Edwin Corley. Okay.

It like went from me being the kid coming up

Yeah. to when I I lost a few fights on ESPN and then they put me in with someone tougher and tougher. Well, you know what I mean? Then I'd be used as the guy if The opponent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bob Arum was a top rank at the time. He was signed with at the time. He he always get, you know, treated me good or whatever, good guy and stuff, you know what I mean? But, you know, it's like anything else. If you, you know, if you're not producing and stuff, then the next guy up.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. You know what I mean? So,

Micky Ward

Yeah. when I didn't win, they didn't re-sign me and I just they put me in another fight that tougher and tougher until I said I'm and I quit the when I retired the first time for like 2 years, I said I'm not being used as a stepping stone. Yeah. So, that's why I left.

Ken Rideout

Would you get the Would you get motivated by being like, you think that I'm the stepping stone, I'm going to kill this kid?

Micky Ward

No, I didn't care.

Ken Rideout

You know.

Micky Ward

That's how I am. I don't I can shake your hand and be your best friend and try to take your head off if I was in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It did give me make more motivation to like train harder and to like show them like that I have more that I can go further. I can I can do things that you don't think I can do.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's almost like you know things that they don't know about you. Right. And just give me a chance to show you, you know what I mean? Um Put me in a tough fight and let me show you or whatever. I didn't care. I I never really cared, you know what I mean, who who I was fighting or Oh, I did care, but I trained hard and I just fought him. Yeah. Did you ever get um when you're in the locker room ready to go out, would you experience like what a lot of fighters describe of being like, "Oh my god, I'm like I don't want to be here.

This is like overwhelming." Yeah, I mean, you get used to it as your as your career goes on.

Yeah. But people that that say people that say, "Oh, I'm not scared. I messed that up." is [ __ ]

Yeah. Everyone's scared. I don't care who you are, how good you are. You may put in your mind you're not scared, oh yeah, but you are. I don't care who you are. And I was scared, yeah. For the big big fights when I scared what I took at the Gattis and all that, yeah, I was I was nervous whatever. But at that point you know how to control your fear. You know how to like just like a big race. You know how to like control that fear before the race.

Yeah. So you don't let it assume you consume you, you know what I mean? So that's what happened. I got used to being like I know how to control it. But you But you get nervous any before anything, any event. I would That's what I always tell people is you got to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And then people are like, "You're never comfortable if you're uncomfortable." I'm like, "You get comfortable with knowing I'm going anyway, so I'm Yeah, I'm nervous, but You got to do it.

Ken Rideout

When you're nervous and uncomfortable and think there might be a way out here, that's one kind of discomfort. There's another one when you're like, "Oh my god, I'm nervous and anxious about this fight, but I know I'm going." Yeah. You know what I mean? You got to go either way, so I mean it is what it is.

And would Dicky give you motivational speeches before you went in there? Was he like a rah-rah guy or was he more quiet?

Micky Ward

Dicky was No, he he was Dicky was always um Calm and thoughtful? Yeah, he like No, he never really he didn't Oh, you got it, this, that. Not a crazy person and he never get me like all crazy, you know what I mean? Um Like a Norman Stone? Yeah, yeah, you know, Stoneyard. He was the best. I love Stoney. I do, too. But he was much more Yeah, well that was Norman's way of motivating people and some people that motivated them and then some guys it didn't motivate so you know, it's different but that was him but that was just Stoney, you know, Dicky had a an awesome career himself, right?

Yeah, see that's the thing people don't understand is Dicky was such a good fighter like Ray Leonard when he lost to Sugar Ray Ray said years later that you know, Dicky was one of his tougher fighters toughest fights up until that point, you know, until he fought the big fights, you know, because Dicky gave him trouble because Dicky could box and he didn't have a big punch, but he had speed and speed generates power and when you get hit with something you don't see that's when you get hurt and that's what Dicky had, you know, what I mean, he could put his punches together very well and he had a good you know, he had a excuse me, he had a decent decent chin, you know, what I mean, so he could stay in there a little bit.

Ken Rideout

When he fought Ray, how like where in his career was he was Dicky on the come up as well as Ray was starting to come up too?

Micky Ward

Right, well, I think it was both I think they were both I think it was their both 13th or 14th pro fight or something like that. No, they I think Dicky had two losses I think

Ken Rideout

I think Dicky had two losses but his record

Micky Ward

looks pretty good. But I think Dicky had two losses at the time.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, but that was a close one cuz he

Micky Ward

like he had a good fight you know, he lost a unanimous decision but he held himself very well in the fight, you know, people thought Leonard would just walk right through him.

I went to it I was 12 years old, yeah. How'd you like it? Well, I was with my sister and they were all up there ALL SCREAMING

AND SWEARING AND ALL THAT AND THEY WERE all men. But it was good though. I mean, obviously it's your brother and you look up to him and you say at the time, you know what I mean? And you know, you're a kid. You don't know what it is.

Ken Rideout

You just want him to win. Do you remember being nervous watching him get in there like, "Come on, champ."

Micky Ward

Yeah, yeah. I was more nervous when he fought than when I fought.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Me, too. I get much more nervous watching my kids do anything.

Micky Ward

Sports you get Yeah, you cuz you want them to succeed in whatever that You you would rather be in the losing or whatever than them, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

Sure. For sure. When I see my kids, like my youngest guy wrestles and

Have no control over it. Like you you have control over it. Yeah, exactly. And I'm no I know if I lose, all right, I'm not going to be happy with it, but I've lost before. Like I can handle it. Like when the little got My little guy is a wrestler and watching him get out there and wrestle and you know, wrestling when you're like 10 years old, you can run into a hammer who's been wrestling for 5 years and my guy's got 1 year experience and the guy just rolls him and pins him and my son is just devastated.

You know, at the at that age, all the kids that lose come off and cry and he's just like he's he's he's embarrassed. You know, he's like, "Oh, I lost in front of my dad. I got like dominated." And it's just it's heartbreaking. It's hard not to cry myself cuz I'm like, "Buddy, come on, man. This is how we learn. This is like it's going to be a gift that you got in there with this kid."

Micky Ward

But You want to tell him that, but but it's like something something they have to learn on their own, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

You just hope that they have that attitude of like, "I'm going to keep coming back." Like how many good fighters would have been awesome if they didn't have to get punched in the face occasionally, right? They go in the gym, they look great. They start getting hit a few times, they're like, "Goodbye. I'm not I'm not with this."

Micky Ward

Right. Yeah, yeah. Cuz this guy gym fighter.

They look great in the gym, they get out there, boom, forget it.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, especially can't handle the nerves, right?

Micky Ward

Yeah. What a lot of people that are that just for some reason they're when there's not a crowd or whatever, they get they can handle themselves in the in the in the gym and stuff. Sparring and all that. They're great in the back. Yeah. Sparring good. But especially when they get out there in front of a crowd, they lose it. Yeah.

Reason they're I don't know if it's the mental part or just scaredness or whatever it might be, but there's just a lot of a lot of people called gym fighters.

Ken Rideout

The other thing that's interesting, too, about about a real fight is if you're sparring in a controlled environment all the time and not in any real wars in sparring, which you don't want to be in a lot of freaking wars in sparring, but at the same time, I was talking to Poirier about this.

When Poirier tries to jump a guillotine on someone in a fight and they don't tap, I'm like, that's because in the gym in training, if you get caught even half-assed in a guillotine, you're like, "Okay, tap. We'll start over. Reset."

In a fight, that guy's going to die before he taps. And it's the same thing with boxing, right? In a sparring, you're sparring, the guy lights you up a little, the other guy's flailing around. When you get into the ring with someone else who wants to win as bad as you do, and like he wants to live, now all of a sudden it's like a fight to the death, and it's a whole different vibe, right?

Micky Ward

You're 100% And it's funny you say that, because I tried to explain to people like people say, you know, people say, "Oh, you shouldn't go hard in sparring." No, maybe you shouldn't go hard in sparring, but you need a hard sparring.

Yeah. I used to like to spar hard. And it might sound crazy now, Kenny. I used to not like it, but I would want to like to get zapped days. So, when I do get days in a fight, I know how to deal with it. I can like I can I can shake through it or whatever I might have to do to get through it. Cuz I've been stunned in the gym and yeah, you your brain gets used to it, which is crazy. It shouldn't feel like do that, but what happens now if you just pretty pet sparring the whole time?

Now all of a sudden you're in the fight and all of a sudden you get nailed. Bang, you get nailed. Now you like your head's like you don't know where you are, but you don't know how to control it cuz you never used to it. You know, pretty That's why I used to like to spar hard and like get that buzz or whatever so you get used to it. Cuz your brain gets used to it. And it sounds crazy saying that now, you know what I mean?

But back then I just That's what And I didn't spar hard every single time. No, but there were times when I had a I sparred very hard because I had a I mean I like to.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, well the other thing is as you get more experience

Micky Ward

You slow it down.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, but as you get a lot of real fight experience and have gone through that, you don't have to do that in the gym all the time. But in the early days you need to be in wars.

Micky Ward

Do. Even when you're older they were used to Not not not like you You're right. You need to control yourself more. You need your body more. Yeah.

Ken Rideout

As you get older.

Yep. But like you said though, but you still need a little bit, you know what I mean? Was there anyone that you sparred with when when where anytime they'd come in you'd be like, "Oh [ __ ] this guy's here today." Any Any guy Any sparring partners that you like hated to see?

Micky Ward

Yeah, no cuz you used No, I used to younger and stuff. You know, you always spar different kids. So, you'd be like, "Oh, he's here. Oh boy, oh no, I got to spar him." It's like, "Oh no, you You want to spar me." You don't want to never want to say no cuz you don't want to show fear, you know what I exactly.

Always in your mind. You're like, "Yeah, I'll spar him." He's like, "Oh [ __ ]

Ken Rideout

What did I say?" But that's how you learn and and you all spar each other and you know, that's how you get better, you know? So, when you're you're going through your career, you got a few losses and they call you for the Shane Mosley fight. Were you like surprised that you were getting an opportunity to fight for the title? I fought a kid Reggie Green before that. And I hit him in the eye center. He was like number four in the world and he

Micky Ward

Okay. He I was behind in that fight, too. He split me open here and and gave me a one right through a left hook he caught me. I was on Queer Street in the third round. If the ropes weren't there, I would have been out on 93 because I fought this hail of a center there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if the ropes weren't there, I think I would have been on the on the [ __ ] 93.

You know what I mean? And uh He was I was a tough fight and I won that and then um

Did you win a decision in that one? I stopped him in the ninth round. Body shot? Body shot then the head.

Ken Rideout

Oh, okay.

Micky Ward

And he stumbled down as he was going down and the referee stopped it.

Yeah. And that was an that was an eliminator? The winner was getting to fight? Yeah, well, it wasn't an eliminator, but I got the fight after that. The Shane Mosley fight.

Ken Rideout

So when they call you though, were you you didn't know you were getting It wasn't an eliminator, so you didn't know. So you win the fight and they're like, "Hey, we're going to give you a title shot."

Micky Ward

We got to go Well, I guess they said we got a guy Shane Mosley that we want you to fight for the championship and I was like

Ken Rideout

Have the belt or was it vacant?

Micky Ward

He had it he had it he was 30 he was he was undefeated, too. I think he was he was like in a 20 something and 0 or whatever it was a 30 and 0 or whatever it was, yeah.

Ken Rideout

It's funny because every time you had those big wins like that, the first Arturo fight, you know as a boxing guy that they're thinking, "Oh, we got this perfect fighter. He's durable, he's aggressive, but you're going to kill him." And they're like, you know, cuz in a lot of those fights there were moments where they were killing you.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. And and that Shane Mosley fight was my favorite. That was my like I love the the Arturo number one fight, but that Shane Mosley fight was just just because you got him out of there and he was beating the [ __ ] out of you for a little while.

Micky Ward

Yeah. Now, what's crazy about that fight is I for some reason I'm never like overconfident or com- whatever. I never say I know I'm going to beat this guy. For some reason, Kenny, right? I said I'm going to beat this guy. I I know I'm to beat him. I'm going to I'm going to beat him. And I never say that cuz anything can happen, but I said I know I've been not against him, but I've been with the tougher opposition. I've been in there with the better fighters, like I said, and um I think I did had more more bullets in my in my gun, you know what I mean, than he did or whatever, you know what I mean, and uh and I end up pulling it out.

Ken Rideout

Well, you know what I when I look at that I think he's not like overwhelmingly better than you in any one area where you're like, "Oh, he's got a better chin or he's faster." I'm like, "No, no, they're both like durable, rugged guys." And I didn't think he was as good as being the

Micky Ward

No, he didn't he didn't he couldn't I don't think he could dug as deep as I would.

Ken Rideout

No. No, clearly.

Micky Ward

You know what I mean? And uh he never been dropped, never been hurt, I think. And when I get when I dropped him and hurt him, like he's a whole

Yeah. That was it, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

And You learn how bad you want to be in there when you get cracked like that, right? Especially with the body shot.

Micky Ward

Yeah, I caught him with the body then came from the I switched left I I caught him up. His elbow went up and I went bang, and that's it. And he kind of the same hand. Yeah.

Right? Right to right up upper cut, and that's when he went down.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. How was that being handed the belt, especially after all the trials and tribulations? That was after you had retired.

Micky Ward

Yes, yeah, yeah. It was amazing because you know why? Because I won it in a different country, yeah, and I won it being the underdog again of numerous times, you know what I mean? And people saying, "Ah, he's done. He's this. He's that." You know what I mean? And uh and I showed them again, you know what I mean? That I'm not done,

Ken Rideout

You know? Was that fight before or after the Which one was it where they were like, "Oh, Mickey's out of there." It was We were just talking about it.

Was before. Sa- Sanchez

Was after. A- after Sanchez

Sanchez was '97. Oh, so San- Sanchez so that that's the fight where Alfonso Alfonso Sanchez and and the announcers I mean, he was putting it on you and the announcers were literally like, "Someone better save Mickey. Oh, ref the ref better consider stopping this." And I swear the guy had hadn't even finished the sentence and you just caught him with a shot and it was like, "Oh my god, it's over." Right.

Micky Ward

And the and the defense like as far as like the ref the um the announcers like saying all that stuff that they had the right because I wasn't doing anything.

I mean they did it go overboard I think but uh the only one I was like kind of on my side was Roy Jones a little bit, you know what I mean saying, "I know Mickey's a better fighter than this and I never I know [snorts] he can do better

Ken Rideout

and" What happened in that fight? You say you were feeling like you had you had good legs.

Micky Ward

I had my legs felt great but I was in a defensive mode. I don't know why. I never run like that.

I move and stuff. I I had moved and you know what I mean and punch and move.

Yeah. You know punch and move like I've done that. But never run like run without punching and like ducking and doing move. It was just I was just

[snorts]

Out of my element.

Ken Rideout

I don't know what it was just Who was training you at the time?

Micky Ward

Uh Dicky was away. Um I It wasn't really to the trainers. I was with um No, I mean I just wanted to know who this is. What were they saying? What were they saying?

Ken Rideout

What were they saying after like, "What the hell are you doing Mickey?"

Micky Ward

Oh yeah, they were they were they were they were telling me the right things and stuff but I didn't give a [ __ ] I wasn't even listening.

I was just running. Was he Was he hitting hard? Yeah, oh yeah, he could punch.

Okay. But but that wasn't the reason why I was running though. I I was just moving. I mean I don't I to this day personally I mean personally honestly I don't know why I was running. I know.

Ken Rideout

Well, when you finally stopped and threw some shots he was out of it.

Micky Ward

Yeah, when I finally nailed him I I heard in the round before that I think I stopped him in the seventh. End of the sixth I caught him and I knew I'm going to go back to that the next and I did and I caught him. Oh, so you knew after you hit him with the first one he

With one time in the sixth and I I think it was the sixth and um and I heard him grunt. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm going to Right." And I'm saying, "Don't stop it." And the corner they wanted to stop it and That's why you were telling them don't stop Yeah, man. Don't stop it. No, don't stop it. Let me give me one more. Give me one more. And then I know for sure no, but but I want to try it. Oh, that's nice.

Never quit. I'd never get knocked out cold first and quit.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. When you hit someone with a shot like that, I know it's hard for people to see on TV, but when you're in the ring with someone and you catch him, right? You can kind of tell when you catch him a good one, right?

Micky Ward

Oh, yeah.

Ken Rideout

When you get hit here I think you can see and and feel things like no one else can see. Maybe not even the referee.

Micky Ward

Maybe the referee, but only that like Right. I felt it. Oh, I felt it when I caught him. I heard it. Oh, whatever. Something like that. And he went down. Right when he went down, like I said, I was in the corner and I'm looking at him like, "Come on. Get up." Like I was like, "Yeah." I'm probably saying, "Please don't get up."

Ken Rideout

I'm like, "Oh, stay down. Stay down." He wouldn't stay down, but yeah. Oh, that was that was And I went over to Roy Jones. You never got to quit. You don't quit in this game. And he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "Yeah."

And I'm like, "Oh, man. Thank god." Well, one of the things that we were just talking about before we started recording is like when fighters get old, like Roy Jones is an example of when someone is so athletic, they get away with a lot of things that aren't technically like proficient. But the minute they lose a split second of reaction and they get caught with the shots that they're just getting out of the way of when they're in when they're in their prime. All of a sudden they get clipped with those.

Micky Ward

And like you were saying, once

Ken Rideout

he's been knocked out, then he gets knocked out a lot of times.

Micky Ward

Well, they say, I guess. I I don't know, but they say once you do, your chin does like once you get knocked out like like that or whatever, it it's not the same anymore and Yeah. You know, unfortunately, Roy was like one probably one of the best greatest fighters ever, you know what I mean? Uh In his prime, you couldn't even land a punch on him. No doubt of a doubt, you know what I mean?

And I know no one really knows that cuz they only the younger generation just seen the Roy that Yeah, at the end.

Yes. They didn't see the Roy that we seen.

Ken Rideout

Oh, when he was in his prime, you just it was so automatic. It was like kind of like Floyd. I think about like Roy and Floyd as an example of like I wonder if they were scared. I wonder if they genuinely like I don't I don't know I I think Floyd would ever admit it, but I'd be curious to hear what Roy would Sure they were nervous. Yeah, had to

Micky Ward

What I mean? I'm sure you know, I mean unless you're crazy, maybe you know what I mean?

Literally like You have nerves. I I don't care who you are. I mean, maybe there are some nutty I'm not going to say nutty, but maybe there are some people that are I don't know if it's that cocky or that confident which you should be. Yeah. But not you know what I mean? I don't know, but maybe.

Ken Rideout

When I see guys like Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather, I'm like, are they nervous cuz they certainly don't seem like they're nervous to me.

Micky Ward

Yeah, well they play it, you know, they they don't want to show no fear or nothing because that's just going to fuel give the other guy your opponent's going to give them confidence, so you're always going to put that game face on like you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

One thing we skipped over when we when you were when you were a young kid, you how many sisters do you have? Seven. Seven sisters and you and Dicky. Yeah. And so the all nine of you all What's the youngest in your family?

Micky Ward

The two older ones, Donna and Gail, they were they were a lot older, so

Ken Rideout

Okay, but you never all lived in the house at the same time. Not Donna and Gail, no.

Micky Ward

Okay. Um Dicky, Phyllis, Cindy, Kathy, Alice, me, and Sherry. Okay.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. And with your mom?

Micky Ward

My mom and father, yeah.

Ken Rideout

Okay, your mom and dad. All the kids the same parents.

Micky Ward

No, no, Eklund and the two different parents.

Ken Rideout

Oh, Eklund, yeah, okay, yeah, they okay. And uh what was that house like?

Micky Ward

Kind of It was crazy, but you know, like any big family, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

Uh Who was the enforcer? Who was like kind of enforcing the rules? Your mom, your dad?

Micky Ward

Oh, my dad. My mom and dad pretty much all the sisters here and there, I guess. They bought a perm here, my hair.

Would the sisters fight with each other? Oh, yeah, they did. Oh, yeah. They fight with each other harder than they They someone else.

Ken Rideout

But if someone else came over to fight one of them, they'd come out like No, no, yeah, yeah,

Micky Ward

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was It was a little crazy.

Ken Rideout

How did they like the depiction of them all?

Micky Ward

It. They didn't like it?

Ken Rideout

No. But in all seriousness, like did you ever say to like as they're writing the film, are they talking to you like hey Mick, here's what we're thinking for this scene?

Micky Ward

No, like when you When you saw the movie like what the [ __ ] is this? It was more obviously it was more when I they talked to me more about my part.

Yeah. They talked about the sisters and stuff. I get I don't know if they talked to my sister I don't even know. But they just I think they knew that my sisters were like I'm not going to say like crazy in this No, but they were like in the city. Yeah, yeah, loud though, you know what I mean? I grew up in the same environment as you. They were girls who were aggressive. They were loud. Like there's no two ways You know what I mean? So I never told them that how it was or how they were or anything like that, you know what They put their own interpretation on it.

Ken Rideout

Much, yeah. So when they let's start it again. When they came to you with the film, how did it come to fruition? Like who How did you first get approached by the film?

Micky Ward

It was like a documentary Richie Farrell, you know Richie, right?

Yep. Well, Richie had done a documentary on Dicky Eklund in jail and

What was that High on High on crack. That was High on crack street, but that wasn't the like that. It It kind of come off of that a little bit, but it wasn't like the main

Ken Rideout

But even that one they Dicky didn't realize that it was like they told that didn't they pitch it to him like it was about his comeback or something?

Micky Ward

Yeah, man. I don't know if that's true. I don't know. Dicky back then when he didn't know what what he was doing anyway, so Yeah.

Ken Rideout

So they but they let him He let them film a documentary about him in like the height of his addiction and

Micky Ward

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I don't I don't think that he I don't think that he thought it would come out as bad as it did, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz in the scene in the movie they show a scene of him watching the documentary in Billerica when it comes out and he's like what the you know and he storms out. Yeah. Yeah, they I feel like [clears throat] that was definitely That was He probably didn't realize like what he really done, you know what I mean? When you but you look at it after. When you are in the throes of addiction and someone comes along and throws some money at you and say, "Hey, we're going to make a film about you." Yeah, go ahead.

Come on. Tell me about it. They're making a film about my comeback. Yeah, yeah. Go do it. It's shitty.

All right, so this anyway that did High on Crack Street comes out they they come to you and they producers or whatever come to you and they're like, "Hey, we want to do a documentary about you." Right.

Micky Ward

Well, it started as a documentary.

Ken Rideout

Were you nervous like after the last documentary I shot the documentary.

Micky Ward

Documentary and then it got chopped over to like um people. To like uh The documentary thing with me and Dicky and me fighting and Dicky in jail.

Yeah. It got chopped out in the market. I guess I got a hold of it out in LA. Someone had showed me told Mark about it. Mark I believe was a big fan of mine and so when Mark looked at it he said, "Wow, I like it." And Mark took over. Okay.

Mark took over it and um then it became what it became.

Ken Rideout

And it became a scripted film from a documentary. And then does he call you and say, "Hey Micky, I want to make the movie about you?"

Micky Ward

Well, yeah, I mean, I think well, I forget who it was. I don't know if it was uh Richie Farrell, uh another kid, Keith Dorrington was involved in the story at the time. So, I don't know if it like one of them told me or whatever or I can't really remember or um but it became what it became. Just it started small like that documentary thing and then ended up being How involved were you in the whole process?

I was uh involved a lot. We Well, they took they sent me and Dicky out to LA a couple times to stay with Mark's house. Yeah. How was that?

It was beautiful. Cuz his house in LA it was incredible.

Up Runyon Canyon or whatever it is. Not Runyon, Benedict the hill the water by Mark's house. Yeah.

Thing goes up like

Ken Rideout

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Micky Ward

Three miles up. Yeah. And we were running up that thing and Dicky's foaming from the mouth I said

Trying to stay up and I'm up way up front of them. I was running up good back then like, you know what I mean? And and Mark and Dicky are coming up and Dicky is Mark and then Mark after saying, "Dicky, you okay?" He says, "Don't worry ABOUT ME. YOU OKAY?" CUZ DICKY was too proud. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it was funny but yeah, we we go up there for a few weeks at a time at Mark's house there what the new the house that he had then.

Yeah. It was good. It was really good. Um Christian Bale would come over. Yeah. He wanted to get He wanted to get

Russell would come and stuff. Yeah.

Ken Rideout

He probably wanted to spend some time with Dicky just to understand his mannerisms and stuff.

Micky Ward

Wanted to see me how me and him interacted with each other. Yeah. So, they would watch me and Dicky in the training. Yeah. And they would like watched me and Dicky like um interact with each other and how we would talk to each other when Dicky would go, "Quack, ah, my

You know what I mean? Stuff like that. Yeah.

Ken Rideout

[sighs and gasps]

Micky Ward

So, um and they learned a lot from that, you know what I mean?

Ken Rideout

Um But at any point are they showing you the screenplay and being like, "Hey, here's what we're thinking for this scene." Or they were like you had no influence on

Micky Ward

No, we have No, we um they would talk to us and ask us this, that and they would you know, and things like that. But, um funny story is like about half a year before it came out, the movie, right? They brought us out to LA to look at it, right?

Ken Rideout

Yeah.

Micky Ward

To look at what they you know, they had. So, we're all sitting in there in the Paramount Pictures, right, at the theater. So, it's me, Mark, Dicky, Christian Bale's with his wife in the front down here. Me and Mark Dicky are up here, right? And David O. Russell and everyone were watching it. So, we're looking at the part where Dicky's going out of the the window when the cops come, they're knocking on the door, Dicky goes out the window.

So, Dicky's looking at it like he didn't do it. So, after the movie gets over, Mark looks at Dicky, I mean, Mark looks at me as Dicky's looking at it like that, pointing at Dicky going, you know, with you know, Dicky kept going like like he was aggravated.

Yeah. So, so Mark goes up to Dicky and goes, Dicky goes, "The part where you run jump out the window." He goes, "If it ain't real, we won't put it in because, you know, you're looking at it like you didn't do it." He says. Dicky goes, "Yeah, I effing did, BUT I WENT OUT THE THIRD FLOOR, NOT THE SECOND."

HE GOES, "AND THERE WAS no bags on the barrels." He goes, "I hit the ground, knocked myself out." He goes, "And ran." He goes, "They didn't catch me."

Ken Rideout

Mark looks at me and goes, Where did they get that story from? From the documentary? Oh, Dicky must have told them when all the cops came once and I jumped out the window.

Micky Ward

Yeah, so yeah.

Ken Rideout

Okay, so

Micky Ward

So, they how they they talked to me on my part of like like different things with my this, that, that. And I'm sure they talked to Dicky about things that he did, crazy

Ken Rideout

The writers while they're interviewing you, is a writer like interviewing you taking notes

Micky Ward

So. I think they were doing it not on notes, but they were doing it on a on a

Ken Rideout

On a recorder. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so the so the writer's listening to these stories and incorporating it into the script. Mhm. And what's interesting about the movie is it just gets up to the Shea Neary fight. It never even gets into the the Arturo Gatti fight.

Micky Ward

It was more about I think the the movie was more about, um, two brothers.

Yeah. It would have been just another boxing if it wasn't with the sisters, Yeah. my wife, my sisters, and my mother. Yeah. Cuz see what happened was like it was more about family.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, I got you. His drug problem,

Micky Ward

Yeah. me becoming up and and the sisters and my my wife and the fight at night, all that.

Yeah. All that craziness and then me becoming a champ at the end, you know what I mean? Coming out of it and being a champ. That's what the movie is about. But I'm just curious

Why did it stop at the Gatti stuff because it we we get to the the peak we wanted to be, championship.

Ken Rideout

You know what I mean? But the thing is with you didn't write a book or anything. So like how did they have all the details of Was it just from interviewing you and Dicky?

Micky Ward

Well, that's how it started from like that documentary, like

Ken Rideout

Showed a lot of this stuff.

Micky Ward

A lot of it. A lot of the craziness with If you look at it, High on Crack Street,

Yeah. you'll see when they had the party for Dicky,

Yeah. drink some

Yeah, yeah. Me like I had my 1980s vest and they had his off.

Johnny Rosebud suit. So they got it from that, you know what I mean? With the I got you. I got you.

Ken Rideout

So once they saw those dynamics, they knew they had something.

Micky Ward

Yeah, and it just everything branched off of that.

Ken Rideout

So when when do your sisters and your mom get to see the film cuz they must have been like all [ __ ] this.

Micky Ward

Well, when they first seen it at the thing, they When they When they watched it, they yeah, they they weren't happy.

Ken Rideout

You nervous showing it to

No. Oh, cuz you didn't think like I don't know what are they going to

Micky Ward

I mean No, I kind of did thought they would be like mad, but You weren't like sweating it like all my sisters are going to be I mean it is what it is.

Ken Rideout

Well, that's what I was saying like when I wrote my own book, someone was like how are we What are you going to say about this person, that person? If they're mad, I'm saying if the [ __ ] truth hurts you, what do you want me to do?

Micky Ward

One thing about it is they didn't look like they like that, you know what I mean? They weren't They were more Attractive. Yeah.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. They made them look very unattractive. Like yeah.

Micky Ward

But [snorts] But it's a movie though. Yeah. And they have to understand it, but but I could see their point, too, though. They did look like a little Yeah, they look like hood rats. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yes, and they weren't. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know what I mean? They tried to align them a little bit more to with Dicky and Nick.

Ken Rideout

Look like that. And I joked and I said, "Do you look in a mirror lately? You're falling falling around, you know what I mean?" They'd be like, "Eff you." And I'm like, "Oh." What about your mom? My mom? How'd she react?

Micky Ward

She actually She She understood more than him, I think.

Yeah. You know what I mean? But uh she was she's another one that I wasn't like that. I go, "Ma, you were like that with You were with Dicky's Dicky was your baby."

Oh, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. She goes, "Ah, you were all my baby." I go, "No, no, don't don't don't start that. Dicky was your baby."

Ken Rideout

Well, the thing is, you know, in hindsight, you guys didn't need babying the way Nick Dicky needed babying. Nick Nick needed like someone to care for him.

Micky Ward

Well, she was like cuz maybe her first boy and this and that. She had all the girls and all that.

Ken Rideout

And he was struggling though, but And he was struggling, so she was like wanted to protect him, and no one else was going through that. So, that everyone would probably cuz my grandmother with my brother, who's like very similar story to Dicky without the without being a champion fighter. Right, yeah.

But my grandmother would do the same thing, and I'm like, "How long are you going to keep supporting this kid? Like you're you're like enabling this [ __ ] Throw him out of the house." And she's like, "I'm not throwing him out."

Try to do anything to help him and Yeah, and just when you could never exhaust their patience. No, not not when they're in that state, but um

So, so did they did they light into Mark or anyone at the premiere after the

Micky Ward

Oh, no, no, no, no. Of course not. No. They just They just yelled at you. They just yelled at you. They just yelled at you. They just yelled at

They just

Ken Rideout

They just yelled at you. They just yelled at you.

Micky Ward

No, I'm only joking, but you know what I mean? It's like That's funny.

It is what it is, you know what I mean? Once it's done, it's done. And they weren't happy at the beginning, I'm sure, you know what I mean? I don't know if they still are to this day, but I don't know.

Ken Rideout

How close are you with them now?

Micky Ward

You know, I don't see everyone every day or talk on the phone or they haven't eat anything like if something ever happened I'd be there you know what I mean or But you got the one nephew you're close with though Shawn.

Ken Rideout

Shawn oh yeah I was And who's his who's his mom? Alice. Oh okay. Yeah yeah. Yeah I met Shawn at the um at the fights at the UFC in Boston when I was with my son. Yeah yeah.

About it all the time he's like dad remember we saw Micky Ward at the fights? Yeah oh really yeah yeah. The the funniest thing was I'm sitting there with my son and people were coming over and I was saying hello I was talking to you and my son says uh you know he was eight. Johnny Damon comes over he tries on his super his World Series ring and my son goes dad I think you're famous. I said you think I'm famous? I said why do you say that?

He's like cuz all the famous people here they know you and I was like you they they know me like I'm I'm a fan of these people like they're and they're my friends but they don't know me for being a a a a a professional superstar but he loved it he was like always every time someone says something about the fight you know that that guy's my dad's friend right?

He's the one that did the wrestling cuz I was talking to Dana at the Nashville show at a Nashville UFC show telling him that my son's wrestling and jiu jitsu and he was like oh wow cool bring him to Boston and it was man that was an incredible event and that's where I met you with Shawn. And Shawn and Shawn runs the Micky Ward clothing company.

Micky Ward

Yeah Micky Ward apparel and Shawn has it his gym Box to Burn in Westford yeah and that beautiful gym. But then

And then Shawn's dad is in the wing a two-time New England all was it two-time I think yeah wrestling champion George Kakavas. Oh really? That's Shawn's dad he's one of the he went to LSU. Really really?

Yeah wrestled in the

Ken Rideout

From Lowell? George Kakavas yeah. Can you imagine can you imagine a kid from Lowell in the 70s showing up in Louisiana? George Kakavas yeah imagine that. I can't even I couldn't imagine it today in the 70s.

Micky Ward

Him George Kakavas was the best one of the best ever come out of Lowell High School.

Ken Rideout

Really?

Micky Ward

Lowell had a good look great wrestlers back in the 70s yeah.

Ken Rideout

Good sports. It's crazy how much these inner cities have changed since we were kids. Yeah. Like when we were kids, too, they were all segregated. Like there was no like diversity and inclusion back then. It was like I can remember when they had the first bussing when they were like forced bussing in in South Boston when they were sending the black kids into the white schools and vice versa and the people were crazy. Even then though, I was always like, "What do we What do you care what someone's race is?"

Micky Ward

Yeah, I mean it's funny cuz I never seen it. I never really understood it because I had so many friends that were blacks to this day and I trained with them that in boxing. I was predominantly a The minority.

Yeah, you know what I mean? And um Well, that's a good way to put

Had a problem with it, you know what I mean? I never I those are my friends and they're my friends today and I don't look at you if you're black or white or don't matter.

Ken Rideout

No, I think that that's what sports does though. Sports are the great equalizer. Like people like, "You can help us win, get over here."

Micky Ward

I'm not farthest thing from like prejudice, you know?

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was It was funny when we started working at the prison, you know, it was super segregated.

Not as bad at Rikers as it is in some prisons, but uh the first day I was Oh, we got you in the wrong parts and The first week I was working there was a huge Spanish guy, tattoos, muscle, bodybuilder and he was like always mean-mugging me and I'm like, "Jesus Christ." Like I was just 18. I'm like, "Oh my god, I don't know anyone here." And the kid was creeping sneaking down but you know, the door had just a window on it.

Micky Ward

[clears throat]

Ken Rideout

And he was crouching down and when I came in to count out like on the 40-minute shift it was dark out, I put the flashlight in. He jumped up.

It scared the [ __ ] out of me. So, the next time I came by I had like a squirt bottle of water and squirted him in his this cell and he was like After that, the guy liked me. He was like, "Oh, the guy's like sticking up for himself." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Micky Ward

Weird like let's test this guy. Yeah.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was crazy. The first day I walked in there to Irish kid from from Boston, Barry Hills, comes running over and picks me up like on his shoulder and he's running around in the ball field with me and I'm like, "Dude, pull me down." And all I could think was, "The other guards are watching me. I

Don't want them to think I'm fraternizing with the Right. Yeah. Yeah. He goes, "Yeah, the guards are watching, but so are the inmates. I want them to know that you we know you." Oh, cool.

Cuz he was a sumo guy. Yeah, but I mean, I was a little kid. I didn't really didn't know.

Micky Ward

Right. That was cool. That was a crazy crazy experience. Who was the toughest fight? Who was the toughest fight? There's so many of them. Obviously, Gatti was tough. Obviously, super tough. You know what I mean? But I had some uh a couple of Dominican kids I fought like younger. Yeah. A kid named Hilário Hilário Mercedes, he was tough. Dominican kid, you know, he punched pretty hard. Um Just tough gritty kids, you know what I mean? They didn't have all the best records and stuff. Well, it's Greco's decent, but those kids some fighters that I fought like younger on earlier on that was so tough, but they didn't get the recognition.

They were like their their record was probably four and 12 Yeah. or whatever I mean, or eight and 12 and they didn't but they were tough.

Ken Rideout

That's the thing about boxing is you you don't just need you don't just have to be good. You also need the right management and being pushed the right way, cuz you could get put in with the wrong people too early.

You can. And it's like in LA developing a fighter, bringing them along. Like you said, you're undefeated undefeated, then you have a loss to like, "I don't know about this." Then you have two losses to like, "Ah, [ __ ] it. Next step in."

Micky Ward

They make me count them.

You're now the opponent. Yeah. And now That's just the reality of it.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. It's a it's a super harsh sport, because you only need one bad night and you're like back in the line.

Yes. When I worked with Teddy Atlas, that's the one thing he'd say is that when someone gets especially when they get cheated in a in a in a and get a bad decision in in a title fight. Now you're like not only back in the line, but how many more rounds of sparring to get three or four fights to get back to that place? And um who was the kid you fought? I remember you telling me someone hit super hard like Sa- Sanchez Sanchez or something.

Micky Ward

Alfonso Sanchez. punched Reggie Green had a good left hook. That's it. Reggie Green, yeah, I remember that one. Like I said, the Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Must have been bleeding what?

Ken Rideout

Oh, really? Who did you fight at the Roxy in Boston? There was a fight on TV at the Roxy in Boston. Black guy, right? And and the crowd started throwing [ __ ] into the fence.

Micky Ward

[clears throat]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was crazy cuz it was like fighting in Boston. The guy The guy's fighting you in Boston and he stops you, does everything he's supposed to do and just starts getting pelted with beer cans. There was all kinds of [ __ ] flying in the ring, but I remember you trying to stop the crowd.

So funny.

Ken Rideout

At what point in your career did you defend the title at all after you won it

Micky Ward

from Shane? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. But the line

Ken Rideout

Was

Micky Ward

Not split. I lost a unanimous but a close decision to him.

Ken Rideout

But the title wasn't on the line cuz they stripped it because you didn't fight who they told you to Why? Who did they want you to fight?

Micky Ward

I don't know. I didn't wait because of a lot more money for this one. At that point I was 30 5 or 4 or something. So I mean the belt it's good to wait to win but you can't take the belt to mark a basket or give me

Or to restore.

Ken Rideout

You need money. So you fight this kid and you lose a a tough

Micky Ward

you know decision. to Antonio Diaz, yep.

Ken Rideout

And then what how how long after that till you get the Arturo fight?

Micky Ward

After that I think I fought uh Jesse James Leija. Oh wow. Where he where I cut him I hit him with a left hook in like the third round whatever it was and they stopped it like in or the first round I hit him with a left hook I think it was split him wide open.

Yeah. They said it was a headbutt so he was ahead after like five rounds.

Yeah. It went to the score cards. I was ahead on one judge and he was ahead on two. Oh. So they screwed me. Oh. They just said it was a headbutt. I mean I didn't headbutt. It wasn't a headbutt. They could clearly see a headbutt. It wasn't a headbutt. But the guy Laurence Cole the referee said it was. Oh. And he's from Texas where the fight was and Jesse's from there and not not maybe he would have been maybe not but I was getting to him.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So making up for that they said they'll give me the Gatti fight. The Arturo Gatti they would give me on a makeup.

Ken Rideout

Thanks thanks for the reward.

Micky Ward

Right exactly so and then it became what it became.

Ken Rideout

When you got that fight cuz I think that was after Was that after he fought Joey Gamache? And almost killed him. Oh yeah way after. So yeah cuz when I saw Arturo I was at that fight in at MSG and he hit Joey Gamache with an uppercut and like almost killed him.

Uppercut hook right hand on the way down. So vicious.

Yeah. So when I remember when I saw that you were fighting Arturo there was a part of me that was like what the hell? Who put Mickey in with Arturo Gatti? I'm thinking like This is crazy. Like I I did not have high hopes for you. I was remember seeing on TV I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] that Mickey [clears throat] saying with Arturo Gatti." Remember it was on HBO, right?

Yes, yes, yeah. And then I watched it and it was like, my god. That's why I'm I was curious of what the rationale was with the film cuz that move that first fight in itself was an entire movie.

Micky Ward

Yeah, exactly.

Ken Rideout

I mean, the referee was like, "Fight's not over!" Yeah. No, no, no, no, Frank Cappuccino. Fight's not over. Get out of your fight.

Micky Ward

Yeah. I'm a you son of a [ __ ]

Ken Rideout

Yeah. What was it like when you got the call and they were like, "All right, hey, sorry about the Jesse James fight, but we're going to put you in with Gatti." And you're like, "What the hell?"

Micky Ward

"Okay." It was uh HBO and Gatti at the time. I think he had just stopped Tom Roma let that was a former IBF champ or whatever. At that point I was like, "All right, no problem, you know what I mean?" They said, "We'll give you good money." They gave me good money, more money than I've ever made pretty much. And uh so it became [snorts] what it became. Never thinking that it would end up like it did. And then how they say like they they could have stopped it like in the ninth round.

You had him down. Oh, you had him hurt. Yeah, ninth round I had him out. They could have stopped it.

Definitely. Luckily Frank didn't because of it what it became.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. Like I don't know what I mean. When you were getting ready for it, did you have any concerns whatsoever? Were you like, "Nah, no big deal. I'm not worried about this guy." Cuz he's durable and he can be hit.

Micky Ward

I I knew that it was going to be a tough grueling fight, you know what I mean? Um but I knew I I just knew that I could do it. I just Yeah, I'm like I said it before, I'm never cocky in this, that, but I just knew I could do it, you know what I mean? Knowing people thought I couldn't do it, that gave me more motivation to dig deep, to run harder, to train harder, to fight harder, and just give it my all, you know what I mean?

Just that dig down just like, you know when you're dead tired at the 18th mile and you know you got so many left like in a marathon. If you say one time in your mind, "I'm tired. I can't do it." you're done.

Yeah. You might as well just [ __ ] take the sneakers off or whatever. You know what I mean? Or just draw again because once you say you can't do it, your mind cannot go back and say, "Okay, now I'm not tired now." You're done.

Ken Rideout

That's right.

What I mean? I always tell people whatever you think is true. So, if you think you're tired, you are. Don't even bother Don't even entertain that thought.

Micky Ward

Listen, you live in your body and if you say to yourself, "I can do it and I can do it." If you say you can you're done, you're done. Yep. Your mind just

Ken Rideout

Where did you guys train for that fight?

Micky Ward

Right in Lowell and Tewksbury at the World's Gym in um in Tewksbury.

Yeah, yeah. Not the Gold's Gym. That's two gyms. There's a Gold's and there's a World's. I don't know what it is now.

Ken Rideout

I don't know. And then the fight was in Atlantic City? The first fight was at Mohegan Sun. Oh, okay.

I won.

Micky Ward

And then the last one was Mohegan Boardwalk Hall.

Ken Rideout

Oh, okay. So, you guys go down there and what was the vibe like what was the feeling like? Were you feeling optimistic in the locker room? Like, okay,

Micky Ward

First one? Yeah. The first Oh, yeah, most definitely. Yeah. Again, knowing that it'd be an awful tough fight.

Yeah. Knowing that I'm probably going to get stitches. I'm probably going to go to hospital. Probably going to whatever, you know what I mean? I just knew, you know what I mean? And looking at it now, it's like I never realized like I'd be in a fight like that.

Yeah. I knew it'd be tough but not like that.

Ken Rideout

What was the score I'm trying to think back on the fight.

Micky Ward

What were the scorecards like going in that 95-94, I think, me. 95-94, him or or even and then me up on one another one or two. So, was Razor It was Razor ahead going in

Ken Rideout

Razor going into the ninth though you must have been behind because after you

Micky Ward

It was like even close, I think. And then the point deduction from him hitting me in the nuts. Oh.

Ken Rideout

What do you think about that? Like I always wonder as a strategy like if someone's getting to you and they always give someone a warning shot. They give you the Oh, no, he caught me in the nuts. No, but I'm saying the ref always gives you a warning first. I'm just wondering if a fighter is like dazed or feeling hurt. And if you just hit him low as hard as you can one time thinking like, let me just slow this guy down.

At least it'll give me a break. If they warn you a couple of times and you do that like

Warnings. It's like, hey, I got a free shot cuz they're not going to take a point usually the first time.

Micky Ward

I never thought of that, but

I mean I should have, but but he [clears throat] caught me in the yeah. And it hurt.

Oh man, it hurt. Really?

Ken Rideout

Yeah. I always think it's crazy too when the ref at least in the UFC the guys almost seems to be rushing the fighter back. I'm like, he's got 5 minutes, man. Let him recover because you probably need the full 5 minutes.

Micky Ward

Was is when I went I got cramps in my stomach. I'm like and I banged the I punched the the ground. I'm like, but then I'm thinking to myself, the more I got rest the more he's resting, so I want to go.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And so coming into the ninth it's pretty close. Mhm. And then what happens?

Micky Ward

The eighth I had [clears throat] him. Yeah. If you watch it, I had him at the end of the eighth I had him and I figured I'd come out fast in the ninth and and get on him and that's what I did [clears throat] and I tapped him boom, boom. Caught him, he went down and I'm like he didn't get up.

Ken Rideout

Were you shocked I couldn't believe he was getting up. Were you shocked that he was kept getting up?

Micky Ward

Oh, 100%. Couldn't believe it. When he got up I'm like,

I'm I'm almost I thought I'm saying again like I said if Sanchez don't

Ken Rideout

get up And then coming into the ends of the ninth when people thought it was over. I always thought it would be difficult like they're sending you back to your back to your corner like you thinking or before you realize when initially when you think, oh, this might be over and then like, no, no, it ain't over.

Micky Ward

You're like, oh, come on. See that's the thing is when the and then after the ninth round when Frank got a chance to know I thought he said I thought for some reason that he said fight was over or something then.

I don't know what why, but I got up. I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm like, it's over. I got it's done. You know, my everything come out of me like kind of Yeah. Frank said, no, no, no, no, fight's not over. Get in the goddamn corner. I'm like, you [ __ ]

So I I'm like then I had to get back up for the That's no excuse by no means. I then he wanted to 10th round.

Ken Rideout

After the 10th round, were you thinking like, "Oh my god, I let him off the hook, you son of a bitch."

Micky Ward

No, I was just You're so wound up in the fight like you're so wound up in like the In the moment?

Yeah, exactly. Everything about it and the toughness of it and and you don't realize like how good the fight was or whatever, but till you look back at it, then you say, "Wow,

Ken Rideout

that was So, after the fight, you guys both end up in the same emergency room?

Micky Ward

The first one um No, we got No, the second and third again. The first one I got stitched in the right in the hotel.

Ken Rideout

Oh, okay. How long after until you realize like, "Holy [ __ ] this is like this was a special fight.

Micky Ward

This is like a This is The whole thing I didn't realize until like everything was over, but the first fight I didn't realize until like after the third one. You look back and like Yeah.

Ken Rideout

But when you got when the next day after that fight and you see in the coverage on TV, are you like, "Whoa, we had a good fight."

Micky Ward

Yeah, yeah, it was special like very like but you still don't really grasp it grasp it

Ken Rideout

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it's happening to you, it's almost like, "Yeah, yeah, that was cool." It's like hard to grasp the gravity of like

Micky Ward

When you run like a 2 and 1/2 hour marathon or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, "Whoa." You don't know how you did it, but you It's kind of like, "Okay, I did it."

Ken Rideout

Yeah. When it's you like, "Yeah, you did it." Well, wow, it's like Well, that's my job. Yeah, that's what I trained for. And then how did you become friends with Gatti? Like when's the first time you talked to him after that?

Micky Ward

We never became really good friends like During the trilogy. It was after the third fight.

The third fight we became friends. But there was so much respect

In the hospital at the end. You see on the documentary there. Yeah. When I when they wheeled me in and they were actually what we were both side by side with the curtain. Yeah. Was there and my and the doctor Magos like Dr. Magos is my doctor. He he swung it open goes, "Someone wants to say hi see you." So, I opened it up and it was a "Tua." And the first thing he said was, "Mickey, you okay?"

Yeah. And that's the first thing he said and now now it's

Ken Rideout

But you guys did after the first fight, did you ever have any interaction with him other than like promotional stuff?

So, you just see him at the promo and everyone's just

Micky Ward

I called Joel and you know, no animosity towards him. He was cool.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. He was cool. I always appreciate the fight when there's no um [ __ ] talking in the

Micky Ward

Yeah, because he I mean, what good is all that [ __ ] Yeah. No, I know. I I don't like it.

You do is like make yourself look like a fool when you lose.

Or if you lose, whatever. Yeah. I'm going to knock him out and then like all the people that, you know, said Tyson, Mike Tyson when they fight, "I'm going to knock Mike. I'm not scared of him. Maybe in the first round." Knocked out.

No joke.

Ken Rideout

An idiot. Not an idiot, but they look stupid. Yeah. I like when the people just show up and act professional and courteous and like we were playing sports against each other. It's just a fight.

Micky Ward

Yeah, and that's it. Just tried my hardest and that's it.

Ken Rideout

So, when they give you the second fight, are you thinking like, "Oh my god, I got to do this again?" Or you just pumped like I'm assuming that money was crazy.

Micky Ward

Oh yeah, the money was Well, I got the million for the second. So, that was you know, the biggest I got the million and I feel let's go, you know what I mean?

But they said they were going to give me bigger fights and like uh whatever fight it was, no, I go, "Give me I want to give a total of you know, the rematch." Because it was such a good fight and then plus the money was Yeah. the most. So, I gave a total rematch. And then after that second fight, he beat me.

Yeah. And they were giving a total people to fight. And then Tua says, "Pat, call HBO. Tell them I'm going to fight no one but Mickey. He gave me the second, I'm giving him the third." They were going to give a total like all these He was going to fight Kostya Tszyu. Yeah. At the time he was a champion. They were going to give him that fight.

Yeah. He goes, "Nope. Mickey gave me the second, I'm giving him the third." And then did you get good money for that one too, right?

Ken Rideout

Like 750 or 800, whatever it was or And then which one was closest, it or three? I don't remember.

Micky Ward

Uh three. It had to be cuz the second one I got knocked [snorts] dizzy. Yeah. He busted my eardrum. Oh, really?

Yeah, the right hand he caught me right here. Yeah. Busted my eardrum. What did that feel like? What did it feel like? I thought I I thought I was on the boardwalk. I didn't know where I was.

Ken Rideout

Really?

Micky Ward

I'm going like this, right This is a true story. I'll tell you. I'm going like this to him. Like like I'm not hurt, right?

Yeah. I got him. I could see him though. I knew where I was. I could see him. He goes He comes across. He looks at the referee. If he's seen it, he goes Yeah.

He goes fight.

I'm like this like everywhere, right? He goes boom boom bang. We're right here, Kenny. Yeah. That woke me up.

Really? I was still dazed, but my leg my legs were still dazed like crazy, but my brain came back.

Ken Rideout

Really?

Micky Ward

He So he knocked me out of He knocked me out of conscious and back in in that round.

Ken Rideout

And the doctor said it can happen. Crazy sport. But how was your ear after the fact?

Micky Ward

Oh, I was out of the fight. I The whole rest of the fight I was dizzy. Every time I go back to the corner I'd be like whoa. But it it hurt. I never broke an ear. It didn't hurt. It just you just equilibrium equilibrium was off. It was off. I I was just dizzy. How do they fix that? It just goes It just on a Heals itself?

Yeah. But it Oh man, it was going I could feel it going I'm like whoa, man. Oh my god. You don't even really feel anything whatever because you're so like at that point I'm so defensive or whatever.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. You know what I mean? I get trying to keep my hands out worrying about this that so it didn't bother me. And then what about in the third was it in the third you got a Did you get a detached retina? Did you have an eye injury?

Micky Ward

No, what happened was he caught me in a eighth round or seventh round with a left hook to the top of the head. You should see it. He caught me boom right on top of the head boom. And my brain shifted in my skull. And it made my eye muscles go out of boom. So I was seeing double for a year. So you

Looked at you like this, right? You were here here and like here. If I picked my head up, there was one. So I had to go in and get double eye surgery. They had to pull the muscles, I guess, from the back. And the even after it was good for like 7 years, now it's coming double again. I might have to do it again.

Ken Rideout

So, you would see double if you were looking, but if you were like So, when you're driving, you're always looking like this?

My head up, yeah. So, so your eyes muscles, certain eye muscles had to be engaged so you could see. What the hell was that? Like, were you thinking like, "Oh my god, I have a brain injury." What I mean, were you

Micky Ward

I was nervous. I just couldn't see right. I was saying to Dicky in the corner, "I can't see him." I DON'T [ __ ] WORRY ABOUT IT. JUST DON'T [ __ ]

Ken Rideout

WHICH HE WAS PROBABLY LIKE, "WHAT I KNOW, BUT probably What else was he going to say? Like, "Oh, you can't see him? You know what they say when you say you can't see him? Fight's over." Yeah, no, in a way. It's like when the when the ref says, you know, when a when a fighter's like, "I can't see out of my eye." You're like, "Dude, as soon as you say that, you know it's over." It's like You know a lot of guys take the easy way out.

Micky Ward

So No, in a way, man. I don't That ain't going to stop me.

Ken Rideout

No, I know, but you've seen fighters do that when they get eye poked. They're like, "I can't see. I can't see."

Micky Ward

Well, they can see good.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, exactly.

Micky Ward

Was seeing double.

Ken Rideout

That's crazy. So, what was the surgery like?

Micky Ward

They did a day surgery. I came out and was great for like 8 years.

Ken Rideout

So, what what As soon as you came out of the surgery, you're like, "Oh, it's fixed."

Micky Ward

Yeah, it was good. It was like no It was It was like normal. And where did they How did they go in? Through your eyeball?

They go in through here and here. They cut the here here and they I don't know.

Ken Rideout

But they didn't go in through like your skull.

Micky Ward

No. Oh, okay. And now you think you're going to get it again? I might Like I It's come back. I got to pick my head up a little bit to see. So, if I look at you like this Yeah, like there and like So, when people see you, they should know like if you got your head up like this, it's sort of you want to upper cut.

Ken Rideout

Put that chin down. That's the main thing in boxing, chin down. Not no more. That's funny, dude. So, after the Arturo three, that was the last fight?

Micky Ward

Yes, and that And I had said before the fight, "I'm done." Yeah. I'm going out there to give it everything I have in my life to win Yeah.

And finish it on a win. Yeah. Yeah, I'm done. Win, lose, or draw, I'm done. And then after that, you guys became friends.

Became best of friends, yeah.

Ken Rideout

And then you end up training him?

Micky Ward

I I used to walk him into the ring every fight after.

Yep. I trained him for his last fight of his life. Yeah. Did he retire?

He retired after after Alfonso's uh was it Gomez? Yeah. Yeah, Alfonso Gomez, yeah. And you guys just became friends for life and then

Yeah, we were friends and then we he'd call me, I'd call him, and we'd go and we'd go I'd go out on a Friday to hang out with him when he was training and stuff.

Ken Rideout

Yeah.

Micky Ward

I mean like when he was training and I had to hang out with him and stuff.

Yeah. Then I end up training him like I said for for his last fight and then after that, when you know, he'd come to the Boston area alone and we'd play golf and hang out and play golf tournaments and stuff.

Yeah. You play a lot of golf? I I was, yeah. Years ago, I played a lot, yeah. I I I still play here and there, but

Ken Rideout

And what do you And you were training fighters for a while?

Micky Ward

Yep. Now what are you doing? Now I'm back uh I was at with the Teamsters for a while.

Yeah, Shawn O'Brien. He's a good dude. Now I'm back with doing with the construction, but we'll see if I'm going back with the Teamsters on my show. You you love hard work, man.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. Construc- doing concrete and uh road paving. I remember you driving the steamroller for a while before you worked at the prison.

Micky Ward

Yeah, yeah, I did yeah. I was doing it, yeah. And I was driving a steamroller. I've done it forever since I was a kid. We got to find you an easier like less taxing job.

Ken Rideout

I know, huh? But the Teamsters you were doing the entertainment stuff like driving actors around doing that.

Micky Ward

Yeah, on the vans, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You still working out at all? Yeah, not as much. You mean I should be doing a lot, but when I work I'm home all night, I don't feel like running.

Ken Rideout

I guess if you're working in construction and uh paving roads, you get a lot of exercise.

Micky Ward

You you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Your wind you don't have.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. I don't care what you have with construction you do with this, you don't get wind like running. I've seen you at the MMA fights. Like I said, you like how you like the UFC? Yeah, I love it. I know I connected you years ago with Dustin Poirier, you guys became friendly.

Dustin's a great guy, yeah. Super nice guy. It's a kid, Charles Rosa, from Boston. Charlie Rosa, I trained.

Know him, too? Oh, Charlie trained Charlie. He's doing He's doing this event where people go out on ice skates and they fight on the

Micky Ward

Rob Font, I trained Rob Font.

Ken Rideout

Yeah. The whole like New England cartel. Yes. Oh, there's some tough guys came out of here came out of the area in MMA.

Micky Ward

Dana's a great friend of mine.

Ken Rideout

Yeah, I love Dana. Super nice guy. The things that he did for me with my son was a life-changing.

Micky Ward

Yeah, that's awesome.

Ken Rideout

Talks about it all the time.

That's awesome. Well, Micky, thanks for doing this. I love you, brother. I love talking to you and uh I hope to the younger generation that might not have seen the Arturo Gatti fights to go and watch it and uh put a seat belt on, maybe even a helmet.

And I'll be looking forward to seeing either the fighter part two or doc or the 30 for 30 about the uh Arturo Gatti trilogy.

I hope so.

Micky Ward

Thanks, brother. Kenny, thank you, buddy. Boom.

Ken Rideout

All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a quick minute to subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. This is a new show, so subscribing makes a huge difference. Please also take a minute to give it a review and leave a comment on Apple podcast and on Spotify. You can also subscribe and leave a comment on YouTube. Again, this is really important for us, especially now since we're just getting started.

You can learn more about me, this podcast, and also find links to purchase my upcoming memoir at the other side of hard.com. My new book is called Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Hard and it comes out March 10th, available everywhere you buy books or again, go into the other side of hard.com. There's multiple links there where you can find all the retailers carrying the book.

Thanks a lot for being with us and we'll see you next week.

Key takeaways

Fear belongs to every fighter, so training is about learning to act while scared.
Conditioning matters because fatigue can make a skilled fighter lose confidence.
A fighter can be dismissed, lose early bouts, and still return for better chances.
A film can capture a family story while changing some details and impressions.
Respect between rivals can grow through the physical cost they share.

Nowhere to Hide

A weekly letter from Ken Rideout about doing the uncomfortable part, and the reasons we use to avoid it.

It starts with 3 Days, 3 Hard Things: one short story from Ken and one hard thing to do, every day for three days. Then one letter a week.