The Voice of the UFC

Jon Anik1:33

That is the truth. It really is having work ethic and discipline lead the dance, but I always tell my kids like I'm trying to be rich. I'm not trying to be famous, you know? But I was walking out of Whole Foods the other day with my daughter and I felt as though somebody was trying to sell us something and it was just this big dude last who wanted a picture, you know? But it was sort of a weird interaction and I'm still caught off guard by that side of it and it's certainly nice to see the kids light up when Daddy gets recognized.

But, I guess when you work for Dana White, you sort of know that any given show could be your last and you really need to keep your focus in the right place. So, I am probably an introvert in an extroverted world. I'm probably more antisocial than social. So, it's flattering. I love my relationship with the fans, but never in my wildest dream nor worst nightmare did I expect to get recognized on the streets the way uh the way I do.

Jon Anik2:27

Amazing. I mean, it's been a trajectory I think and an evolution like anything else in life. The timing for me was great at a time when the UFC, as I mentioned, was going to 40 live events a year. And at ESPN, I was getting maybe one American football game a season. You're not going to get any better. Like, you'd see the college football schedule come out and I'd get one game in September the whole season. You're not going to get any better. So, certainly I think Dana rode me harder earlier on.

And

Jon Anik2:53

Think yeah, I think anybody is going to be reticent to change. And I remember when he brought me into his office before I called my first UFC show and he said, "Hey, we didn't hire you to be Joe Rogan or Mike Goldberg. We hired you to be you. And just know that uh your haters are going to go through the roof, right? A lot of the media is going to be envious of you and a lot of fans are going to be like, "Who the [ __ ] is this guy?" You know?

So, yeah, I mean, I called my first show in Nashville January 20th, 2012. And uh went back to my room, ordered a bacon cheeseburger, opened up Twitter, and could not believe the avalanche of hatred. Now, that says nothing of maybe some of the in-show criticisms that were coming in from Dana White. But, no, I mean, I think I have a longer leash now. I remember some of the particulars when I started, maybe we couldn't say like, "Oh, this is a must-win scenario." And here I am trying to humanize these athletes.

And we might have a fighter who's lost three in a row. And people at home maybe don't care one way or the other. And it's like, "Hey, if this guy's fighting for his job, and it's a must-win, staring at four L's in a row." Now, all of a sudden they have a vested interest. So, me as the humanizer, the guy who's trying to humanize these athletes, felt like that was maybe something that was humanizing and he didn't want to talk about losses, which I now understand.

So, sort of taking off my journalist hat and putting on a promoter hat was I think part of the transition and progression, but he has never censored us, right? I will be called a shill at times and there's no directive from Dana. We've never been told any sort of storyline. There's nothing WWE about it. So, I would run through a brick wall for the guy and I think most of our UFC staffers, which I am one of, would say the same thing.

Jon Anik5:19

Peter Welch.

Jon Anik5:33

Yeah.

Jon Anik5:33

worth it." He changes a lot of lives and there's so many philanthropic initiatives that never sort of see the headlines that maybe they deserve. One of the nicest gestures that anyone's ever done for me, I think he spent $40,000 on a ticket for me to go to game four of the NBA finals in Dallas when the Celtics were playing the Mavericks.

Now, they got blown the [ __ ] out, but it was the greatest seat I've ever had for a sporting event and the grandest gesture that I had ever been on the receiving end of and that says nothing of even just some of our like staff soccer team, right? I heard some story, he'd be like, oh, I'll give you eight grand if you guys win the whole thing and then they win the whole thing and he gives everybody on the team $8,000, right? Just gesturing constantly and never wanting credit for those gestures and maybe I shouldn't have even told the soccer story here today because that has never seen the light of day, but yeah, I mean, he's a guy that you just want to impress when you're in the broadcast booth and yeah, I think we've all experienced his his generosity at some point in time.

Jon Anik7:15

Great question. I think there could and should be more. I think certainly in my formative years with the UFC, there was more of that. I do believe Craig Borsari and Zach Candido, Dana White at times, you know, often times Joe Silva, our Hall of Fame matchmaker was the conduit through which Dana would get a message to me, especially in show, like if Anik says this one more time, I'm going to ring his neck, you know.

Jon Anik7:42

I feel like now I'm 47. I have a much more acute sense of self and who I am and as a broadcaster I'm more polished, not just more damaged vocally, right? So, I think I have a longer leash at 47 than I did at 32. And, you know, maybe there's less constructively that needs to be done. I'm my own harshest critic and I have an identical twin brother who is second in line in terms of criticism, constructive or otherwise. So, there's never any shortage of feedback.

You know, Mike Lappy Laplant is our lead pay-per-view producer. I can still call them pay-per-views, by the way. Lappy and Zach give me a lot of feedback, but I always wish that

Jon Anik8:19

Uh

Jon Anik8:23

Well, I will say I think there's more negative than positive. I think that uh

Jon Anik8:30

Well, um maybe trying to play doctor a little bit too much when uh there's a cut or something. Maybe trying to lean too far medically or maybe when there's something with a rule situation or often times we're trying to lay out, which means shut up, right? So, often times maybe you'll see a fighter hit the tunnel and I'll lay out.

Jon Anik8:51

And sometimes maybe they'll tell us to shut up and sometimes I might hit my talk back button and say, "Hey, I'm going to let this breathe a little bit or I'm going to let this breathe longer. I really like Joshua Van's walkout song, so I'm not going to talk until you tell me you want me to say something." So, there's a little bit of back and forth, but I want feedback all the time. And I think the nature of our live event production team now is such that with Power Slap and everything else, I do think that some people are spread a little bit thin and as such there isn't some major debrief after the shows, but I do feel like Dana's always managing the live event and nothing makes me happier than when he's putting on the cans when we're doing the show and actually wants something additive from the broadcast to his live event experience.

Jon Anik10:28

My biggest focus is the championship calls, the fight-ending calls. I order room service almost every meal. I sit in my room, and I let preparation lead the dance. And so, when I show up, the performance kind of takes care of itself. But I think, not unlike you, I'm hyper-focused on making sure that every capstone to a UFC finish is something that can either be repurposed or something that the family is going to look back upon fondly. And I think the only way to get there is to just be completely wrapped around the initiative.

But, yeah, repetitions, right? You look up, and all of a sudden you got 20 years of broadcasting experience. And I use regular conversations to practice things like pausing and leaning away from verbal crutches. And I think my radio background certainly teaches me about long-windedness. And if you don't arrive at the initial point that you're trying to make, then maybe you take another 30 seconds to get there. And then, the next thing you know, you've talked for 2 minutes. And I know you can attest from some professional experience to that as well.

So, yeah, it's a constant evolution. Like, I don't think I'll ever be a finished product as far as broadcasting is concerned.

Jon Anik12:45

Do you memorize that? So, the pay-per-view open, and we are live and free with your Paramount Plus subscription. But, for the pay-per-view open, I do memorize that. We don't have a teleprompter. Certainly would be nice because then I would nail it every time. But, generally speaking, I memorize maybe three or four items of copy per show. I might announce a Hall of Fame inductee, and that goes to the house, and so I'm on a single camera shot, and so I'll memorize that. I mean, practice makes perfect.

Often times, I'll use that process of memorization to fine-tune the copy. But, thankfully for me, there's only three or four items that need to be memorized. And thankfully for me, cuz my weight fluctuates, unlike Mr. Rideout here, I'm off camera for most of the show. So, um, you know, if I need to pull out the fat suit for a given show, so be it.

Fox did used to make me a fat suit. Like, "Hey, you got a suit?" I Well, you know, Fox really as a network is a talent first network. They really care about wardrobe and everything when it comes to catering to talent.

Jon Anik13:44

I cut my teeth at ESPN where I got dressed in a [ __ ] toilet stall, put my own makeup on. Then we go to Fox and it's like, "Oh my gosh. Oh yeah, we'll cut you one suit when you're 5 lbs heavier." Yeah, so I had like a fat suit at Fox if I'd show up and I wasn't in the best of shape.

Jon Anik13:58

Yeah, I had a little extra room in the midsection.

Jon Anik14:04

Yeah. So, Metro West Boston area, you know, I was a vocational coordinator for special needs kids. I was a job coach and I would get jobs for special needs teenagers and I would work in like Sharon Middle School and Sharon High School. And then I was working as a sports writer for the Metro West Daily News in Framingham, Massachusetts getting 18 bucks a story to cover high school girls volleyball. And I remember one time I was charged with coming up with the high school boys wrestling all-star team.

And I'm like, "Man, like you want me to pick who the all-stars are?" And they're like, "Yeah, it's sort of based upon record. of does itself." I'm like, "Man, I don't know that I know this sport well enough at 22 years old to be picking the all-star team." But yeah, I mean wanted to be a columnist for the Boston Globe, wanted to be the voice of the Boston Red Sox. And uh I think I heard Reese Witherspoon say, "Chase your talents, not your dreams." Like, don't be a dream chaser.

Chase the things that you are good at. And I think if there was anything that drove my success other than just writing repetitions, my education was very heavily rooted in writing. But really drove my success was chasing what I thought I was good at. And I did it subconsciously. I was like, "Man, I'm a clean writer, but there are better creative writers than me. But maybe in terms of oration or articulation, I can out talk these guys in a sports argument." So, I was I was wisely directive in terms of moving my body and my mind towards things that I was good at.

And eventually, it went from print to radio to TV. And got some breaks along the way to be sure.

Jon Anik15:39

I wrote a lot, you know, I always wanted to be a sports writer because media wasn't what it was today.

Jon Anik15:46

The big I mean, again, in terms of like trying to be rich and not famous, I felt like, you know, Will McDonough, may he rest in peace, the Boston Globe columnist, that was the guy. It wasn't necessarily like we put radio and television guys on a pedestal. Sean McDonough is the greatest play-by-play guy of all time. He can do any sport in his sleep. And he's a guy I looked up to a lot. I used to do sports updates on his show at 1510 The Zone in my formative years doing sports radio.

There's a lot of different paths I think you can go now that maybe weren't available back then. And uh you know, I went to the Connecticut School of Broadcasting in 2003 after having a four-year degree in political journalism, but I needed the internship to get credit to get on the radio. And yeah, there were a lot of different sort of transitional periods in my career. But really, the goal for a long time was to be a sports writer. And then, everything just exploded in terms of audio and media and everything else.

Jon Anik16:38

Gettysburg College, Pennsylvania.

Jon Anik16:42

I was the captain of my high school basketball team because I went to private school. I went to the Rivers School in Weston, Massachusetts. And I was reluctant to leave public school initially, but there's no [ __ ] way I would have been the captain of the basketball team. Maybe I would have been the 12th man at Wellesley or Natick High School.

I wouldn't have been the editor-in-chief of the high school newspaper. I would have been [ __ ] around.

Jon Anik17:04

So, in terms of my secondary education, going to private school and just writing all the time. And I played tennis in high school as well. But no, I mean, I was athletic. I'm just small, you know.

Jon Anik17:15

And have always had a little Napoleon complex. but yeah, no. I mean, in third grade, I was the best basketball player out there. Um by ninth grade, you know, I'm guarding guys who are 6'4" and I'm getting [ __ ] trampled.

Jon Anik17:29

So, he majored in musical theater in college, and he was big time in theater in high school, and he was a better point guard than me. And had he played basketball in high school instead of been dancing and singing on stage, we might have been better than 5 and 17. No, our high school basketball team could have really used him, but he was uh he was trying to perform.

Jon Anik17:50

Uh Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida. Majored in theater, huge theater school. And then he went to LA, tried to be an actor for a few years. And uh yeah, now he's doing the broadcasting thing, so.

Jon Anik18:03

Yeah, no. And we are so flattered by that comparison, and uh I do think there are a lot of parallels to be drawn in terms of our situations, but you talk about repetitions and polish. And you know, my brother's worked hard to gain that five to six years of broadcasting experience, but you can't necessarily close the gap on 20 years of writing journalistically and just repetition. So, he's done a tremendous job, but uh nothing beats reps.

Jon Anik18:36

So, I was a SportsCenter anchor on the radio. So, I got hired by ESPN Radio, and I was doing updates on Mike and Mike and Colin Cowherd and all sorts of different shows. And then they started auditioning ESPN Radio SportsCenter anchors for TV, for espn.com digital media.

Jon Anik18:58

Yeah, anyone who's maybe not, you know, maybe you had the look or the sound. And I never had any aspirations to be on camera, as I think you are hearing. So, yeah. I mean, they thought I had Tourette's syndrome. I'm still twitchy here. Your producers tell me to be 6 inches from the mic and I could barely get that done. So, I never wanted to be on television, but I auditioned and I got hired by ESPN Digital Media. And so, then instead of being a part-time ESPN Radio SportsCenter anchor, I became a full-time espn.com television talent.

And then a couple years later, they launched MMA Live, which was a show about mixed martial arts on espn.com and ESPN 2. And at that time, the only people in Bristol who were covering combat sports at all Brian Kenny, who was doing boxing and didn't want to do MMA. Stuart Scott, who was too big time even though he would have probably been the better host of MMA Live. And then me, who was hosting the Mouthpiece boxing show on Sporting News Radio back in Boston and then driving to Bristol every other day.

And I auditioned for MMA Live, got that gig, and that's what put me on the UFC's radar. And yeah, left ESPN a couple years later, but I got a lot of breaks, you know.

Jon Anik20:08

Yeah. I mean, not all that often, but I was on SportsNation a couple times with Colin Cowherd and Michelle Beadle. So, we crossed paths and yeah, we're familiar with each other, for sure.

Jon Anik20:19

Yeah, he's a good

Jon Anik20:28

That's cool.

Jon Anik20:32

Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Anik20:55

So interesting. Peyton is like my dream partner in any capacity. And that is coming to you from a born and raised New England Patriots fan who was a season ticket holder in the '80s and '90s, but I just think Peyton's got so much value comedically and otherwise and I like that.

Jon Anik21:27

The mannerisms, too.

Jon Anik21:32

So, I was at ESPN part-time and I was driving from Waterville, Massachusetts to Bristol, Connecticut every four out of seven days a week. So, yeah, eating McChickens, falling asleep at the wheel. I mean, it was ugly there for a time. So, in March of 2011, I'm covering UFC 128, I think it is or 126 at the Prudential Center, Newark, New Jersey. It's the night upon which Jon Jones becomes the youngest champion in UFC history. And my now boss, Craig Borsari, pulls me aside backstage and he says, "Hey, you know, we're doubling our live events.

We got a job for you. Have your agent call me on Monday." This was in June or March, I should say, of 2011 and I'm freaking out cuz I'm there covering the event for ESPN and now I can't focus on anything else.

Jon Anik22:20

Yeah, so ESPN MMA Live. Yes, exactly. I'm covering this event for ESPN and earlier that day Jon Jones had actually foiled a robbery on the day of this. Yes, this is So, I met Jon Jones that day in his hotel room interviewing him for ESPN SportsCenter about that robbery. So, it was a whirlwind of a day. And then I get offered this UFC job and uh yeah, a few months later we came to terms and uh my daughter, Riley, who's here today was born in August of 2011 and October 27th, 2011, I fly to Vegas.

I'm introduced at a press conference, fly back to get my wife and daughter October 29th, 2011, I move to Las Vegas. ESPN had the UFC buy out the last two months of my contract. The the UFC wanted me on board for November 1st, 2011 cuz that's when their Fox deal was beginning and yeah, it was a soft landing. But do you know there were a lot of people at the time who were sort of suggestive that I was making a mistake. It took me forever to get to be a full-time employee at ESPN and now I was leaving after a couple of years and who knows, you know, I mean in terms of my pro football broadcasting aspirations, if that dream would have been realized had I stayed.

But this was the wagon that I wanted to hitch to and at the time it looked like the UFC was going to maybe be on G4, the gaming network. Yeah, I didn't care. I was gone. I was going to go work for Dana White in the UFC, come hell or high water, so.

Jon Anik23:47

Yeah, I mean, well, I guess probably I wanted to be the voice of the Boston Red Sox and as I got older, I realized that they played 162 games and I never really wanted to hear myself talk. I never wanted to be a solo radio host. I would listen to the great Colin Cowherd and think, "I don't want to hear myself." And baseball, there's a lot of self, right? There's a lot of talking about yourself, pitching changes, rain delays in between innings, 162 games and felt a little bit too self-serving to me.

NFL football felt a little more bit more digestible, 16 games. But no, the NFL is king, pro football is king in this country, always seemingly has been, always will be and yeah, I mean I grew up a starved Patriots fan in the '80s and the '90s and I just love the NFL so much. So yeah, I mean that was a lot of the dream and got some opportunities to do some college football at ESPN and then FS1, but now that I've called UFC fights with Joe Rogan to my right, that is the dream and the the goal is to try to earn that seat.

You know, my next show is June 14th at the White House. We're trying to earn it for the UFC pay-per-view in July.

Jon Anik24:55

Bro, so the greatest broadcasting experience of my lifetime was at the Sphere in Las Vegas. And

Jon Anik25:02

Unfortunately, it seems like that might be one of one because it was just such a huge undertaking, not just financially, but just in terms of getting that show functionally off the ground was such a huge undertaking. I don't think it'll ever be done again. This might actually top it. So many questions, right? Georges St-Pierre wouldn't have competed at the White House because of the variables that come with competing in the humidity potentially, defending your title outside, not enough people are talking about the variables and tangentially.

Jon Anik25:36

Right? So, I bring up Georges St-Pierre because I think for Georges St-Pierre, for Jon Jones, there's some legacy preservation that happened with both of them, right? Say what you want about Jon Jones not taking the Tom Aspinall fight. Say what you want about Georges St-Pierre coming back to fight Michael Bisping for the middleweight title and then leaving before facing the Robert Whittaker's of the world. There's some legacy preservation going on there. Now, yeah, maybe you offer Georges St-Pierre 20 million to show, he don't mind competing outside.

But this is a definite variable for Ilia Topuria, the massive betting favorite defending his lightweight title. And you can be sure as the guy who checks every [ __ ] box that they've thought a lot about maybe some moisture on the canvas or training. They're in Florida right now. That's probably by design. How many of these athletes are getting, you know, in wind tunnels or running outside? I can't wait to get there. We're we're arriving at this live event earlier than ever before. We're showing up on Tuesday for a Sunday event.

Jon Anik26:36

Sunday, June 14th.

Jon Anik26:47

Mean, I think it's why we haven't been to Hawaii. It's why we've never done a show outside. But, I told my boss Craig Borsari recently, my dream, and again, we're talking about chasing talent and not dreams, but my dream as a UFC commentator is to call a Fight for the Troops event. Do you remember those?

Jon Anik27:06

So, if you don't know, a UFC Fight for the Troops event, the entire crowd is troops, often times in uniform. Can you imagine as a commentator the performance enhancer that that would be? American troops all around you and the White House show is going to be a little bit of that, and it looks like maybe some of those Fight for the Troops events could start to come back, but can you imagine what just a natural enhancer that's going to be to look around and see all of, you know, the men and women who are presently serving or have served our country.

We're going to have a Medal of Honor winner who's 101 years old at this White House live event. I'm so excited. It's going to be

Jon Anik27:48

No, and even those of us who have managers, you know, like my twin brother manages my career and comes to a lot of these live events, he can't get in. So, yeah.

Jon Anik28:10

Oh, it's going to be wild. It's going to be wild. No, and it's even hard for me navigating tickets just for the regular events because people see me as someone who's forward facing, and they assume that I must get a 10 stack to every show on the floor, and it just doesn't work that way. So, yeah, no employee tickets for the White House show, and that's fine. I'm just going to do my job, and it's amazing looking back upon that Sphere show because it was such an out-of-body experience walking in there and looking up at something so visually spectacular, but not unlike the athletes, you need to focus, and I'm excited.

It's seven fights instead of 14.

Jon Anik29:16

The way the UFC was able to execute a live event in there was unbelievable. And I think maybe the NBA has done a draft in there, but best of luck to another sporting league, right? And I know there were rumblings that Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather were going to rematch in there. No, best of luck executing a live event in there. And I would say to anyone going to Las Vegas, I implore you, even if you don't like heavy metal, if there's a heavy metal band playing at Sphere, [ __ ] go.

Jon Anik29:43

It is a venue unlike anything I've ever seen. So, I'll go see the Wizard of Oz. I'll go see

Jon Anik29:50

I'm a hip-hop guy, I'm a reggae guy. I don't necessarily love heavy metal, right? I don't like screaming. I probably shouldn't admit that I didn't love the Beastie Boys, but as a kid, I tried to follow the line. Well, cuz they just were screaming. I know. I love Right. So, well, Rage Against the Machine, don't tell Dana White. You know, I just don't deal well with screaming, but if Metallica, right?

Jon Anik30:08

I'm losing all my listeners here on a UFC side, but if Metallica or [ __ ] Anthrax was at Sphere, I'm going. It is that visually spectacular that if you are there, spend one of your nights at Sphere if you can afford it.

Jon Anik30:37

No, and I had all their albums as a kid, but I just think that I would maybe more gravitate towards melodic hip hop at the time, but yet everybody was all about the Beastie Boys, so I was more trying to fall in line. But, much respect, of course.

Jon Anik30:52

Nothing better, you know. Uh better human being than you could possibly imagine. I don't know if he's ever crossed your way. Yeah.

Jon Anik31:59

Philip cooked for me once at a sushi restaurant that Joe booked for us in Miami and on that night, I think I had the single best bite of food in my life. And actually, one of the worst sea urchin, right? Is like the final of the 17 flights. And Joe and his wife love sea urchin and I mean, I could barely stomach that sea urchin. It can be fatal, you know? But, it was uh yeah, he's done so many amazing things for so many people. And even if you look at me, right?

Like, and my relative public approval rating. Nobody called me the [ __ ] goat until Joe said it, right? He's the goat, right? Nobody said that until Joe said it and he fuels public perception. So, him putting me over certainly helps me tremendously professionally, but I love working with the guy. We first worked together on 3 days notice UFC 155 in 2012 and largely I say to people you either have broadcast chemistry or you don't, you know? I had the chance to work with Max Kellerman and Andre Ward for Canelo vs.

Crawford and if you don't have chemistry with people it's not something I mean it can be honed, but I don't really think that it can be developed. You kind of have it or you don't and I love working with Joe. I love making him laugh and yeah, I think it's a pretty special dynamic we have with DC and it just feels bigger when Joe's there. It really does and thankfully we've been able to break bread more over the last year than really in the last four or five prior to that.

So, it's been great just to watch his evolution and uh you know, we talk about philanthropy on and on with him too as well, but yeah, he's a complete stud and renaissance man and yeah, the most listened to man in America.

Jon Anik34:09

Right. And if you did it would be a different conversation cuz I don't care if you can kick the [ __ ] out of me. I won't let anyone talk to me like that in person.

Jon Anik34:24

Yeah, I remember early on someone was like man if you do post fight interviews in Lemoore, California and you go into that octagon working to like shoot you on sight. You know what I mean? Like cuz I was doing the post-fight interviews for a lot of the early shows with Kenflo. And so, not that that registered with me as a death threat, per se, but it was like, "Oh man, I hope they don't put Lemore on the schedule cuz I don't think that I'm particularly beloved in that pocket."

Jon Anik34:55

Yeah, right? But, you know, I cultivated my relationship with the fan base through a lot of hard work and dedication and communication on Twitter before it was X and really before Elon Musk bought Twitter. It was far easier to engage, it was far easier to see all of the mentions.

Jon Anik35:14

Certainly as my profile increased, it became harder to keep up with that. But, I think a lot of, you know, UFC fans can attest that I was reachable and I was not the guy who would post and ghost. And if you're on a level of Joe Rogan, A-list celebrity, you have no choice but to post and ghost. He posts something and has 12,000 comments shortly thereafter. But, oftentimes people see me as a conduit through which they can get to Joe.

Jon Anik35:37

Can't be that, you know? I've given Joe's number to one person, it was Roy Jones Jr. And of course, I asked Joe first, you know? But, that's the one person. But, yeah, you want me to delete your number in my phone, just ask for Rogan's cell phone number. That's the quickest way.

Jon Anik36:08

Well, I'm not good at asking for things, right? And as you know, Joe Mazzulla, the Celtics head coach, is a dear friend. And um, you know, he texted me after they lost the series, like, "Sorry about the way the series ended." And I'm like, "Dude, don't apologize to me." But, you know, he's a Rhode Island kid who lives in Greece and the Celtics like Yeah.

But, I'm not asking that guy for tickets. No, hell no. I live closer to where the Brooklyn Nets play, the New York Knicks play, and the Philadelphia 76ers play than the Boston Celtics play. And I'm not even sure coach knows that cuz he knows I live in Connecticut, right? He invited me to game one of the Celtics-Sixers series and I went, but dude, I'm not good at asking for stuff even when I have friends. It's just not my nature. But, uh

Jon Anik36:56

Yeah, but uh

Jon Anik38:09

He's an amazing human being and a very well-versed guy and uh I think he'll be heard from in the fight world

Jon Anik38:18

Coaching career is done. Well, certainly in terms of the grappling, I think that goes without saying that he'll compete in jiu-jitsu, but I think that he'll have a role in the fight world beyond that. Not necessarily as fighter. I wouldn't be surprised to see him compete in some striking discipline at some point in time. I know in surface conversations I've had with him when I talk about him as an NBA analyst, he wants to talk about fighting. He won't talk about basketball.

Jon Anik38:52

Yeah. And what I'd give to see him coach the Celtics to another title.

Jon Anik39:05

So you know, I've been taking preventative measures to soften the blow for these New York teams potentially winning for years. So I know my daughter's here, but now that I'm old enough, I can sort of say that my twin brother and I have bet over a quarter of a million dollars over 25 years betting against the Boston teams and on some of these New York teams to try to pay for championships, right? So the craziest bet we ever placed, when the Patriots were down 28 to 3 to the Falcons.

Jon Anik39:39

Right? I placed a $500 bet on the Falcons to win $17. Do you understand the rationale, right?

That the superstition is that the only way the Patriots are coming back from down 28 3 is that if somehow I get involved with this wayward bet and sure enough that $500 bet I lost cuz the Falcons lost that game. So yeah, thankfully if the Knicks win at all like I'll have a huge financial swing to the positive because I've been betting on them every step of the way, but that's because I would pay thousands of dollars if you could guarantee me that they wouldn't finish this job and that either Oklahoma City or San Antonio would.

Jon Anik40:28

Interesting. I think I've softened in certain ways and maybe I've worked a little bit more embedded in the sports world than you at times. I've softened a little bit in so far as I feel bad for New York Jets fans.

Jon Anik40:41

I never thought I would get there. And I guess part of me and I never thought I would get here is and my twin brother's going to think this is crazy, but a little bit happy for New York Knicks fans who haven't seen this team play in the NBA finals since 1999. So for all of these Knicks fans who are children, they've never experienced anything. The Knicks haven't won a pro title in my lifetime or years probably. So I've softened a little bit, but the Knicks and the Yankees for me, they can [ __ ] right off, you know?

And yeah, the Yankees in particular, I think my venom for the Yankees is greater than my fanaticism to the positive for the Patriots or the Celtics or the Red Sox.

Jon Anik41:38

It's uh

Jon Anik41:40

A little over a quarter century. It's been interesting to raise kids who didn't experience a lot of those titles even if they happened in their lifetime. You know, my son right now is seven and all of a sudden the Drake Maye-led Patriots end up in the Super Bowl unexpectedly and I'm telling him, "Dude, I don't think Drake Maye ever gets back to one." And he's like, "What?" I'm like, "Dude, I'm telling you, it's over."

Jon Anik42:25

We just lost how many thousand?" And I'm like, "I don't care. I'm like, that's why I made the bet cuz now I'm happy no matter what." So, some people will call it a happiness hedge and I'm not going to really take much solace in collecting the Knicks money. Like, I'm really not. Like, I'm going to be up until that point that it's an elimination game. I'm going to be progressively taking measures to try to prevent it from happening. But, when people bet on their own teams, when their heart is already invested, I don't understand it.

Why would I bet on the Celtics, right? Now, I will bet on the Red Sox. Now, I guess that this season not withstanding, right? But, because they play 162 games, maybe two or two or three times a year because I have my finger more on the pulse of the Boston Red Sox than any other team because I follow that team. Two or three times a year, I will bet on the Red Sox in a good spot. But, I bet against them every day right now and they lose every [ __ ] day and it's great.

Jon Anik43:36

Yeah, so I was supportive of them firing Alex Cora because 10 and 17 is just unacceptable and I think often times in the Cora era, it's either been first or worst and that's just not acceptable. So, I'm less critical of management and ownership than a lot of Red Sox fans. I I think I'm just optimistic as a sports fan and give them the benefit of the doubt and before this last week, they were still within striking distance of the wild card, you know? So, yeah, I mean, a couple of the big trades haven't worked out.

Certainly, I think hindsight is 20/20, but if they could have given Mookie Betts a bag, they certainly would have done that. But, you know, I still think even though they didn't want to pay Alex Bregman or, you know, concede to some of his demands, they still put money into the pitching and the product. And, I still think at the end of the day a lot of people are going to want to come here to play. A lot of people are going to love the city, raising their kids here, Fenway Park, and everything else.

So, I'm hopeful, but it's been a forgettable couple months to say the least.

Jon Anik45:05

It's been tough. It's been great, but and you asked the question very thoughtfully. You know, when he's experienced rejection, I take [clears throat] that on personally and vice versa. And, he's had a front row seat to my career. He's also had an indelible role in my success, whether it comes to show feedback or just career advisement. So, now that he has the experience that he's actually employable, I think in some respects, it works in his favor being my twin brother. Excuse me, in another respects, people are like, "Yeah, we're good.

We don't want Bizarro Annac or whatever they want to call you, you know."

And he's got the flowing lettuce and he's better looking and all these things, you know. So, because his background is in performance and musical theater and because I think he's very capable now as a sports broadcaster and now he has the requisite experience that a lot of young broadcasters think, "How am I ever going to get it?" Well, now you can start a podcast and actually get it. Now that he has all those things, I just wanted so badly for him. So, I'm just hopeful that he can carve out a career doing this full-time because that would be amazing for his family and you know, then he wouldn't have to work for me.

Jon Anik46:17

Yeah, so I mean dirty boxing has a great rule set and I do think that you and I could rack our brains around creating some sort of combat sport that really incentivizes cardio or something. You know, Joe Rogan and I are pining for mixed martial arts to have a 10-minute first round.

Jon Anik46:35

You want to chew up and spit out some of these guys? Best of luck trying to survive the first 10 against Islam Makhachev.

Jon Anik46:42

I know Jack Della Maddalena survived all 25 minutes, but maybe he wouldn't have if round one was 10 minutes. You know what I mean? So, dirty boxing has a great rule set and I think that's a big key to to any combat sport, bare-knuckle or anything, you know. But dirty boxing, you know, there's some ground striking. There's elbows, you know, there are no knees, but there are a lot of different things about the rule set that make it very conducive to producing knockouts. So, and he gets to do the post-fight interviews, which I think is great exposure and great experience of skill set building.

Yeah, so yeah, he's off and running, you know. I I certainly hope one day that there could be a role with him within the UFC world because I think he has a lot to add, but time will tell.

Jon Anik47:32

So, I followed that one because my podcast partner Kenny Florian was on the call, which was amazing.

Jon Anik47:39

Yeah, so when Bellator existed and I did I did call Bellator 1 back in 2009, by the way, that first season and I think perhaps that also helped me when I got hired by the UFC

Jon Anik47:51

But no, I think the UFC schedule is such that if I'm watching all 42 or 43 of our live events, There's just not bandwidth to watch bare knuckle. I mean, I'll seek out friends like Platinum Mike Perry and

Jon Anik48:04

But yeah, for the most part, I'm not watching anything else live because I'm devoting most of those Saturday nights to the UFC. I'm watching all that stuff after the fact. And when there's a fight that either necessitates conversation on the podcast because of fan interest or it's about of consequence in boxing or another combat sports, then Kenny and I will watch it, make a point to watch it, and talk about it. For the for the most part, um our show is reactionary and it's the UFC's world and everybody else is kind of living in it and everything else is secondary.

But we did lead our podcast with Ronda and Gina, you know, after they fought.

Jon Anik49:10

Oh yeah.

Jon Anik50:31

Yes.

So, I was hosting the Mouthpiece boxing show back in 2003. We started. And in 2007, the first mixed martial arts show I ever attended was Elite XC 1 in Tunica, Mississippi, headlined by Frank Shamrock versus Renzo Gracie. And Gina Carano fought Julie Kedzie on that card. And I got to interview Gina like radio row style, like as if we're covering the Super Bowl. So, imagine me in 2007, Gina Carano sits down and she's about to fight Julie Kedzie, [ __ ] mangled her face. I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

So, yes, seeing that however many years later and knowing the ultimate competitor that resides within Gina, it's like, you got to do one more almost, right? I mean, I just think that in her worst nightmare, this was it in terms of the actual competition. This was the one thing that couldn't happen. And I feel like get on your bike for the first 60 seconds. Like, just back up or what even make Ronda use the fence or I don't I don't know. It's easy to sit here and armchair quarterback this thing right now, but I'd like to see Gina again against a striker because I just think that maybe the Bank of America checking account's going to look nice, but I think this is going to leave her a little bit unfulfilled.

Jon Anik52:33

Yeah, I mean, I'm old now, but when I signed with the UFC, women were not allowed to compete in the UFC. And it's crazy to think about where the sport is now and I called the first straw weight fight in UFC history. Not Ronda Rousey at ban away, but straw weight. It was Claudia Gadelha and Tina Lahdemaki at 115 lbs and I bring it up because that's the best women's division, 115 lbs historically. It has just been the deepest and the best. And you look at all the different champions we've had at straw weight and I remember calling that fight in 2014 and me and Brian Stann thinking like, wow, you know?

And that fight was incredible. And Gadelha went on to challenge for the title and Lahdemaki sort of retired early, but yeah, women have brought so much to the game and um you know, I talk about bouts of consequence and Gina Carano versus Ronda Rousey in 2026 is not a bout of consequence,

Right? And I'm not suggesting that Gina Carano is going to find herself in a bout of consequence in terms of it having any sort of divisional relevance in any promotion.

Yeah.

The point is that finding her a striker that is maybe in her age bracket like even Holly Holm. I know she would be a heavy underdog probably against Holly, but finding somebody so that Gina could scratch that competitive itch because

Jon Anik54:01

I think there's a lot of criticism for Ronda and some of it I think is unjust. You know, I guess as a fanatic as an MMA fan, I find myself wondering like well, can she beat Joselyn Edwards right now in the UFC's bantamweight division or Nora Cornell or Norma Dumont, right? Like

Jon Anik54:30

But I do believe that some of those fights would be competitive for Ronda and wildly entertaining, right? I'm not talking about Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes, you know, but I do believe that if Ronda like Gina, we'll see what her mentality is at her age but if Ronda's mentality was like I'm trying to be the best in the world. I'm trying to compete, you know. It does feel like a lot of this was rooted in putting a capstone on her career the right way.

Jon Anik54:57

Financial gain for sure but this was not a bout of consequence, you know, I feel like this was a missed betting opportunity for people not to put their life savings on Ronda. She should have been minus 3,000.

Jon Anik55:12

Minus 600 or something.

Jon Anik55:16

So, I'm contractually prevented from betting on all mixed martial arts and boxing. So

Jon Anik55:21

Didn't figure that was the fight to violate my contract.

Jon Anik55:37

Biggest betting loss of my lifetime that I can remember, I think was on Hillary Clinton to beat Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.

Jon Anik55:46

Yeah, I mean, he came on strong, didn't he? You know? I mean, I [snorts] just felt like it was an eventuality that she was going to win, and I don't know that I particularly cared for her, which is neither here nor there. It's not like I was trying to take her down with my bet the way I'm trying to take down the Knicks, but yeah, I just felt like and I do hope that a woman is president at some point in my lifetime as the father of two daughters or otherwise.

But yeah, I thought Hillary was going to win, and I just kept betting it, betting it, betting it little here. I was betting my buddies like, I'll give you any odds you want on Trump, and uh I remember betting one of my UFC coworkers, Will Sorenson. I was like, yeah, whatever price you want. He's like, give me plus 500 on Trump. I'm like, cool. So, yeah, I got

Jon Anik56:25

Yeah.

Jon Anik56:36

Yeah.

Jon Anik57:10

And he's a good human being at the end of the day, and he is desperate to save his city, and I do believe he might be a slight betting underdog right now, and I do think he's going to win.

Jon Anik57:47

Yeah, I mean, I majored in political journalism. I wrote a senior thesis on how the media undermines American democracy and I still don't know what I wrote over those 40 pages, but we got it done. And when I look at politics, I'm just so so thankful I'm not in that world. I do believe Spencer is a good human being, a good father. I think he's clear intentioned. I think he's well intentioned and uh yeah, if you're on Polymarket, I think

Jon Anik58:31

He could learn a lot from our conversation about long-windedness, though. Right now, I think as for any of us as orators or talkers, right? And one of the inconvenient truths of doing a podcast is that you have to listen back to yourself, right? I remember talking to Ken Flo early on. I was like, have you ever listened back to the show? He's like, nah, bro, you know? And it's like and for me, it's like I hear my voice all the time. The last thing I want to do is listen back to my podcast.

I probably haven't listened back to it in about 100 episodes other than the clips, if I'm being candid. And I also have an identical twin whose voice I have to hear all the time. So, the last thing I want to do is listen to myself back, but I do think Spencer could use a little polish. A little polish in some of these instances and just cut yourself off. Like don't be afraid to cut yourself off when you finish a sentence.

Jon Anik59:17

Like I did just there.

Always demonstrate, never tell. But pausing is a really acquired skill or not a but I it's taken me a long time to figure out how to pause instead of using a verbal crutch like um or you know. You know has been the bane of my existence. It's been my foremost verbal crutch since 2003. I remember when I was on Sporting News Radio in Boston, I would write you know on a post-it and have it in front of me because if I saw it, then maybe I wouldn't say it.

You know? So to pause instead of saying you know, it took me 15 years to figure that out.

Jon Anik1:00:11

Yeah, like Kenflo my twin brother, I think for them it's um

Jon Anik1:00:14

For me it's you know.

Jon Anik1:00:42

Natural flow and I think you have to have broadcasters who are willing to check their egos.

You know, as the play-by-play guy in other sports, your line is pretty clearly defined, right? In football, you call the play.

It transpires. Excuse me and then the analyst comes in and analyzes what has happened. In mixed martial arts and in boxing I think as well, that line is blurred. So you might hear Rogan call out a jab which actually might be my job traditionally speaking. A lot of it is chemistry, a lot of it is just knowing when another guy is going to talk and then a lot of it is me staying in my own lane and knowing that when the fight hits the ground, the last thing that Dana White or any fan wants to hear is me talking about omoplatas, right?

I have Joe Rogan, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, to my right and to his right is UFC Hall of Famer and former two-division champion Daniel Cormier. So, I have a good sense of those guys, their energy levels early on in the night when maybe they're super caffeinated and fed, and then maybe other times during the night where they'll need a little bit more from me. But, generally speaking, I don't get paid per word. We're on for 8 hours as a group. We are trying to be as listenable as possible.

We are trying to be additive. We are trying to elevate the sporting event, not prove something to people, not inject my ego into it, not take away from the live event, not have listeners being like, "Man, can he just lay out and shut the [ __ ] up for a minute?" So, just know that anytime somebody says we add to the live event and it feels bigger with the three of us, and we don't have a traffic jam stepping all over each other's dicks, that's music to my ears because sometimes, maybe early on in the night, you start to step on each other a little bit and you're like, "God damn." You know?

Or you flub, maybe you say something and it never is as bad when you watch it back, but maybe you trip over your words and you try not to let that get in your own head, but yeah, we're trying to let it breathe and let each other breathe as much as possible.

Jon Anik1:03:08

Well, dude, you're a legend. You really are. You're an inspiration. You're a credit to New England and Massachusetts. And I I say, you know, I got up and did a 6:00 a.m. sculpt class today Uh at Yoga Freak in New York and Ken Rideout's a huge inspiration on many days for me, certainly in terms of exercising and giving myself love. So, congrats on the book. I can't wait to read it cover to cover and uh I know you made a lot of progress in a lot of walks of life, but uh I continue to admire what you're doing for my own personal