The Doctor Who Got Sick 22 Times Before Anyone Asked Why

Dr. Clay Moss1:25

He went and lived on the house boat and him and my mom ended up meeting on like some spring break trip or something.

Dr. Clay Moss1:30

Yeah. So, they stayed down there and uh had a good childhood. Grew up there. Went to Ole Miss for undergrad. And

Dr. Clay Moss1:38

Yeah. So, I played pretty much every sport except for baseball and soccer. So I was football, basketball, track, brief stint with lacrosse, tried to play anything.

Dr. Clay Moss1:50

Hurdles? So

Started out with the 110 hurdles and then I wasn't tall enough.

Dr. Clay Moss1:56

I did back then. I'm trying to get them back now. But yeah, I was better at the 300 hurdles which was a brutal

Dr. Clay Moss2:02

Hard race. So I was young and so I think I liked it because I was young for the team and I was friends with all the older kids and then they graduated and I didn't really love it like I you know I did and I was cool.

Dr. Clay Moss2:16

No, it's I mean it's it's literally like getting punished every day.

But I also saw kind of the world through a performance lens cuz right around the corner from where I grew up, this place opened up called the Andrews Institute, which Jim Andrews,

Dr. Clay Moss2:32

Yeah. Like the most worldrenowned knee surgeon in the entire

Dr. Clay Moss2:37

Yep. So they started out in Birmingham. Uh, and then they move he moved his main headquarters down to Gulf Breeze cuz it was kind of this little island that not many people knew about and so public like all these huge public figures would come and they didn't really get bothered.

Dr. Clay Moss2:49

So I'd be like walking home from school in middle school and like peek through the the fence and see Shaquille O'Neal and Tim Tibo and

Dr. Clay Moss2:56

Right? And so like and it was, you know, it was an orthopedic surgeon place. So I I really wanted to go into medicine and it was kind of

Dr. Clay Moss3:02

Yeah, I had some family members that were my my uncle's a general surgeon. And then of course when I'm exposed to that, I kind of put two and two together and I was like, how do I get in? How do I get on the other side of the fence?

Dr. Clay Moss3:17

My dad's in medical sales. My mom did real estate for a little bit, but was mainly stay at home mom, which

I mean job in itself. Yeah, especially raising me and my brother.

Dr. Clay Moss3:39

Yep. Exactly.

I can't take care of myself, so I can't even imagine. We haven't had kids yet, but uh the day is coming at some point.

Dr. Clay Moss3:46

I can't even imagine looking at something and thinking this is half me and half the person I chose to marry.

Dr. Clay Moss5:10

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss5:29

That's something I've had to like kind of stop and and and think about lately too, just as a whole is is trying to slow down with like every stage of life.

Dr. Clay Moss5:36

Cuz when I was going through medical school, I was in So I went to Ole Miss for undergrad and then stayed in Mississippi for medical school, which was in Jackson, Mississippi, which is not nearly as fun of a place as Oxford. And I was single at the time. And you know,

What medical school was it? University of Mississippi Medical Center. So, it's the only MD school in the entire state and so got a ton of volume because it was the only level one trauma center.

Dr. Clay Moss5:57

Yeah. So, it's a great place to train.

Dr. Clay Moss6:26

Yeah. I I did a rotation when I was in medical school with trauma surgery which is probably the most fun rotation I ever did because it's literally I mean it's [ __ ] crazy, right? I mean it's it's when you think of like Grey's Anatomy the most, you know, intense dramatic episodes. It's the trauma surgery episodes, right?

Dr. Clay Moss6:57

And the reaction time you have to have with that. And I just don't think that's me. Like I'm pretty calculated. I like to think out my actions before I do them. I I I realized pretty quickly that I was not that guy.

Dr. Clay Moss7:23

Yeah. I think we become pretty hardened and most people become pretty good at compartmentalizing everything, you know, and not bringing it home.

So, I mean, I still see some stuff that I don't, you know, would rather not see and I don't think my wife would enjoy seeing.

Dr. Clay Moss7:40

"Yeah, I try not." And it's hard not to relate it to like your own life, too. Like, I'll see somebody come in with their wife and they're not doing well and I'm like, "God, I just I think about my wife and you know,

Dr. Clay Moss7:55

Yeah. I've only done that a couple times. Um

Dr. Clay Moss7:59

We had to do that when I was in medical school once and then one time in residency.

Dr. Clay Moss8:13

I was going to go to the University of Florida. I was a huge Tim Tibo fan growing up, right? Like I was I mean I was in elementary school right in the heyday of the Tim Tibo days. So I grew up a Florida fan. My whole family basically went to Miss.

Uh got accepted there and everything. Honestly, kind of out of spite for one of my teachers growing up because it was a, you know, it was good public school. It was hard to get into. My teacher told me I would never get in there.

Dr. Clay Moss8:35

Yeah. And then

Dr. Clay Moss8:37

Uh Gulf Breeze High School. Yeah. Little public school down there.

And yeah, so I got into Florida, went there another time kind of through the lens of like do I want to be a student here? It was just it's too big. I just felt like a little fish in a big pond.

So I wanted somewhere a little bit more homey, southern hospitality. I really liked Oxford a lot. I had family nearby. So went there with my best friend who was from Michigan and he was going to go to Michigan State and then last minute was like, "Let's go to Miss Screw it. Yeah, let's go." You know, it's funny. When we moved here from LA, I don't know why I thought this, but people in the neighborhood were like, "Oh, we're going down to 38." And I'm like, "What's 38?" "Oh, the panhandle of Florida." And I was like, "The Redneck Riviera." Like, I literally had contempt for the place without knowing anything.

Dr. Clay Moss9:57

It's the I mean they're the whitest beaches on the planet.

Dr. Clay Moss10:13

Yeah, it's still a little redneck especially when you get closer to Pensacola.

Dr. Clay Moss10:24

Right? But I think it's more of like at least for the most part I think it's more of like a hospitable crowd than like kind of you know blatantly arrogant ignorant redneck you.

Dr. Clay Moss10:39

Okay.

Dr. Clay Moss10:46

Yeah. I was telling somebody this the other day. They were asking about kind of the the vibe when I was growing up and it was like every house party we would go to would be like, you know, some billionaire next to the guy who owns the gas station down the street next to two lesbian moms next to I mean it was like a weird kind of more southern redneck Austin, Texas type version where like everybody got along cuz it's honestly not big enough to where you can get in like too many pockets, right?

So like everybody gets along and and I think that was really nice growing up cuz I I just saw the world through that lens.

Dr. Clay Moss13:02

Was awesome. Um, so awesome and not I would say awesome in terms of like I love Oxford. I love Miss I like the people that go there surprisingly. You know, you talk about kind of putting your own thoughts onto like what the panhandle of Florida would be like.

A lot of people think the same thing about Miss, right? It's in Mississippi. Don't expect much out of Mississippi.

Miss is like weird because if you go to Florida or Florida State, it's 90 plus% instate students that go there. miss was 60% out of state at least at the time that I was going. So like all of my friends were from California and New York and Chicago and Dallas and Nashville. So not that many Mississippi kids. So it's kind of nice cuz now I'm out and pretty much anywhere I go I have some random connection from Miss which is weird.

Dr. Clay Moss13:45

But it's a great very social place.

Dr. Clay Moss13:49

No. I thought about I thought about doing track when I was before I had quit track in high school. They approached me like to try out for the team. Uh, but I just I really just didn't want to at that point. And I saw kind of the lifestyle that the track guys went through.

And I don't think I had the mindset that maybe I do now.

Dr. Clay Moss14:09

I think I would have. Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss14:26

100%.

Dr. Clay Moss14:34

Yeah. And I think you you have a special mentality from the things I mean the things that I've read about you, especially in the book and I know about you just from personal experience that kind of forces you into that lane.

Dr. Clay Moss14:45

But I think me on the other hand, you know, we were just talking about how many people I've met this past year that you also know kind of in the fitness industry that I didn't know before. I didn't I haven't been doing this whole social media stuff for too long. So, the amount of doors that have open and people that I've met now I'm associating with people that are very high level performers. And so, I'm honestly kind of creeping into that world just out of association now cuz I don't want to feel like a [ __ ] compared to all my friends now.

You know, like I just signed up for my first half marathon cuz I'm like I got to do something hard. Like maybe I'll creep up to like the big ones.

Dr. Clay Moss15:23

Well, dude, I'll tell you this. Uh I think having good mentors has been like the best possible thing for me in my life. Yeah.

For the last 10 years because

I feel like I've gone a little bit of a non-traditional route in a couple areas. And if I didn't have some sort of like guiding voice at any step of the way telling me like it's going to be okay, like it's going to be safe and like you can go for these risks, then I don't think I would have done it, you know?

Dr. Clay Moss16:41

Yeah, you guys are I think this too, there's a certain level of like good selfishness that goes into meeting new people. Like podcasting for instance,

I'm jealous of you actually cuz I and I might start my own podcast at some point too cuz I love picking other people's brains and picking up 1% of like their own mindset that I haven't lived through. I think that's a great thing about the books too, like reading, you know, yours or David Gogggins or whoever else's book that's been through really hard [ __ ] that I didn't go through as a kid. Thankfully, like I haven't had that much drama, thank God.

But at the same time, there's also a a depth and a level that people like you guys that have actually been through some crazy [ __ ] can push to. And when you read that from from my standpoint, it's like I love doing that because at least I can get the storyline and like put myself into how someone like you or a Gogggins or, you know, a Jaco Willink can go that extra mile just by digging deep to something that you've experienced before, you know.

Dr. Clay Moss18:14

And also the stuff that you did early on in your life like you wouldn't be the same person here. So like you don't even know, you know, if you had started earlier in life with what you're doing now, you probably wouldn't have been doing what you're doing now cuz you would have had those those experiences to push you there.

Dr. Clay Moss18:31

Yeah. I rushed a fraternity. Had like a typical experience there. Had a lot of fun.

Dr. Clay Moss18:35

Sig mai.

Dr. Clay Moss19:03

I'm just not like I I don't think I can bring myself to really be mean to people,

Dr. Clay Moss19:16

Yeah. When I was coming through as a pledge, I think it was, you know, we probably caught the very tail end of like I don't even know if it was bad hazing cuz I've heard like my dad's stories and like those are crazy, right? where they're like burying people in the backyard with a straw and we didn't do that. It was mainly psychological stuff and just people being genuinely like mean to each other. I didn't understand that like and then you get in one day and you're just like supposed to look at that same person and be like, you know, so that part no [clears throat] I was not a fan of and I didn't really participate in that once I was in like I never hazed anybody.

Dr. Clay Moss19:45

It was mainly it was it was mainly just kind of psychological stuff to like make you think that they were gonna do something or that like something was going on behind your back. It was more like paranoia. Okay. Right. And and I think that's the the worst part of it. Um wasn't very physical or anything but like you know you're an 18year-old kid and you don't know anybody and you feel like the world's against you and like it was pretty Yeah.

I mean like I did not enjoy it and I don't think I was in the head space to like kind of pick up for myself at that point. But the friends that I do have, like especially in my class, like that's why I'm here. Na, that's part of the reason why I'm here in Nashville is we're going to the game together. We're still all great friends. So, there is that aspect of it of like you do get into a a social setting where you're able to make friends very easily and learn deeply about each other.

And it's kind of a fast track to meaningful friendships with a small amount of people.

Dr. Clay Moss20:40

You rush as a freshman. Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss20:51

So, Miss at that time at least we didn't rush it was weird. We didn't rush we rushed all the first like half of the first uh like of all the fall and then we didn't get initiated until after January because they didn't this is crazy was so and it still is to an extent so fraternity and sorority heavy that you would have people not get the fraternity or sorority that they wanted and then before the drop date of all the tests they would quit and go find another school and like transfer to Georgia.

So they moved that date of initiation into the fraternity and sororities later and like the whole rush thing later so that you couldn't drop if you didn't get the thing that you wanted.

Dr. Clay Moss21:30

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean like Yeah. And I think for a lot of people that meant a lot to them, right? Cuz like you're getting into a social crowd that you know you've built up and you've moved across the country to try to do. It's really messed up. Like I I think the whole thing is silly and messed up. But, you know, when you're a kid and like that's your life, you you feel like the whole world's ending if that something like that happens. So,

Dr. Clay Moss21:58

We were like kind of the more the gentlemanly people like people guys you wanted to marry. I think that that's what which is good. Like you want to be in that fraternity, right? I don't know what it is now.

Dr. Clay Moss22:11

They got crazy. They they they definitely got crazy.

Dr. Clay Moss22:16

No, not like snorting cocaine off each other's foreheads in the in the living room or anything

Dr. Clay Moss22:22

I don't know.

Dr. Clay Moss22:25

Dude, it's funny. I I convinced my roommate that we were going to wear bow ties at Ole Miss and we never ended up wearing them. Thank god. I don't trust anybody in a bow tie, but I thought that was going to be our life.

Dr. Clay Moss23:36

That's genius. Actually,

Dr. Clay Moss23:39

One thing that we didn't have in college as much that I think is becoming more popular now is the whole like wellness scene. Like I feel like all these run clubs and everything are popping up everywhere and so people are starting to get into that. When I was there, especially in Mississippi,

I stood out like a sore thumb. A because I didn't wear like collared shirts and khakis and everything to the bar and New Balance shoes

And I wore like black t-shirts and you know jeans or whatever and B cuz I actually went to the gym and the greatest thing about Oxford, at least at the time, I'm sure it's different now, there was no one ever at the gym. There was no one ever. You always had the gym and the sauna and the steam room all to yourself. Same with Jackson when I went to medical school. So it was kind of awesome. Then I moved to Tampa and like you have to like wait and get in line, you know, to get in the door.

Dr. Clay Moss25:24

I think I think one of the big ones um God, what's the guy's name? Fagan Bomb that he basically had this crazy disease when he was in medical school.

Dr. Clay Moss25:37

Yeah. Uh yes, something like that. I can't remember what it was,

But yeah, he he went and found repurposed drugs in order to do that. I think we're seeing that too with like you know Ivormectton and from Benazol we're starting to see other uses than they were originally intended for which is really fun and like AI is just going to explode that whole process in a good way.

Dr. Clay Moss26:31

Yeah. I think there's a flip side to it, too. Like, I think we don't get enough time with our patients. Yeah. For a lot of reasons, whether that be the health insurance model and how it is nowadays or the fact that medicine is not owned by physicians anymore. It's owned by people that have never gone to med school. And so, we only have, you know, 5 to 12 minutes per patient. We don't really get to consult anybody about diet and exercise. We didn't really learn that.

We didn't learn that in medical school.

And so, but also like the population is is very sick. So, I go back and forth sometimes. I I think overall we're probably overprescribing as a field, but at the same time, a lot of people will come to me and be like, I need to get off all my medications in order to be healthier. And it's like, no, you're probably on a lot of medications because you're unhealthy. How about we get you healthier so that you can come off? You know, there's it's the chicken and the egg, right?

Dr. Clay Moss28:33

Oh, it's even worse maybe on our side too because we are every single day having to call insurance companies and explain to them why a patient needs this life-saving care or to go to impatient rehab because they fallen and broken their hip and they won't be able to go back to their three-story home if they don't come to impatient rehab, but they denied and they would be $100,000 if they didn't. You know,

Dr. Clay Moss29:43

It was fine. I think it was what like appropriate for what it needed to be. Were you always a good student? Did you get good grades throughout high school and college? Was it relatively easy?

It came easy. Yeah. And I think I was a good bullshitter, too, to an extent. I think

Dr. Clay Moss29:59

I think I was really good at common sense, too, which I think sometimes you have very intricate and and detailed and difficult questions that you could make a pretty good guess just by using common sense when a lot of people, you know, start writing on the wall like a br, you know, beautiful mind.

So, it came decently easy. I was never, you know, number one in the class. I didn't want to be.

Even when I got into medical school, I didn't want to be. I knew what it took to get there and I just didn't want to give that up for my own personal health, right? But no, I so I spent all four years and I was chronically sick. So this was kind of an issue when I was growing up, but more so when I got to college. I was I had I literally got diagnosed with strep throat every other month for four straight years.

Dr. Clay Moss30:51

I had 22.

Dr. Clay Moss30:54

This My wife's never had it. And so I I had 22 documented cases uh when I graduated college. Took it to an ENT. They told me I need to get my tonsils out so it wouldn't happen again. Got that out. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it sucks when you're late in life. It really hurts. You lose a [ __ ] ton of weight. Oh, it's just so painful. So painful.

Dr. Clay Moss31:24

So it's not that painful.

Dr. Clay Moss31:30

So it's not that painful for kids. But yeah, so I got tonsils out six weeks later got the worst strep throat of my life and they told me it wasn't possible. Right. I had they convinced me to get sinus surgery cuz I I mean I couldn't hear. I was so stuffed up all the time. I was literally miserable for a large

Dr. Clay Moss31:46

Yeah. Oh, and ears. Especially when you're in like highlevel medical premed classes and you're trying to hear, right? Like I would call my parents all the time be like, I got to do accounting cuz like there's no way I'm going to keep up with these guys if I can't freaking hear. So yeah, I mean that that kind it was weird because it kind of made me have a little bit of disdain for the medical industry as I was trying to actively get into it, you know,

And so it just I I think it was good that I had that experience. Like I'll probably I would get a steroid shot and antibiotics every single time I would have it and I'd be sent on my way and nobody would ask anything about my sleep, my you know how much caffeine I've been intaking, how what pro how many ultrarocessed foods am I snacking on throughout the day. And I worked out six days a week. So in the mirror I looked amazing, right? Even though I mean I had inflammation from the neck up.

You could tell looking back, but I just thought like, hey, I look good. So like this has to be happening to me. It can't be my fault.

And looking back, I realize like how many other things I could have been doing. But when you're a 19-year-old kid, you don't know that, right? You need somebody to help you.

And I just didn't have that. And so I think it was a good experience now because now that I'm kind of through all that, especially through the things that opened my eyes during the whole COVID pandemic when I was in medical school, I'm at a place where I'm like, I kind of understand where that overlooked patient comes from, you know, where you just feel beaten down by the system.

So many people have had it worse off than I have, but at least I had a little bit of taste of like what that that person goes through. So then now like when I inevitably start my own practice, I just want to I just want to open up the practice that like 18-year-old me would have loved to have gone.

Yeah. You know,

Dr. Clay Moss33:26

We want to come here. My wife and I really, really love it here. So,

Dr. Clay Moss34:15

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss34:19

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss35:16

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss35:47

It's so hard to go back and like try to convince like why you made certain decisions and didn't see the big picture too.

But no, I'm that person. I think I am that person like I like the thought of of keeping what I catch, right? And I think as physicians we get coddled so much through four years of medical school, 3 to seven years of residency, 3 to 5 years of fellowship that by the time you get out, you've been in such a safe environment that most people and you are in so much debt that most people just I mean yeah a big hospital comes to you and they're like hey you know come on with us you'll see you know x amount of patients per day and it doesn't work out like that is more

And we'll take care you know take care of your medical debts over the next 15 years, we'll take care of you. You just got to work under our system. Like 90% of people are going to take that job, right?

The funny thing is like this whole functional medicine umbrella, I don't even know what to call it at this point because everybody's claiming different terms, but basically like the preventative medicine area where it's more cash pay. A lot of people write those doctors off as being selfish because it is cash pay and you're not going through, you know,

Dr. Clay Moss37:08

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss37:15

Yeah. And I think doctors a lot of times are the are the people on the front of the movie poster that when the movie sucks, like that's the person we turn to, even though it was the producers and the director. Exactly.

Which is like the big administrative problem behind the corner.

It's a lot easier to blame the doctor that's sitting right there instead of the system that they were kind of forced into. And so I just I want to get out of that system because

A I want a good life. Like I want a life that I can be happy. I never want to retire. I I always want to work and want to enjoy working.

I want a good life for my family. But I also want enough tools in the tool belt where I can feel like I can make the best decisions for my patients alongside them instead of being crippled by all this paperwork and [ __ ] prior offs and things like that. Crazy. I see medicine is one of the most miserable professions on the planet now. I mean, I I I see doctors all the time that do not enjoy what they're doing. They went into it with heavy hearts and like wanted to do well, but now it's like I mean, people really lose that art of medicine.

They lose like the whole reason why they're in it. And I'm convinced that a lot of doctors like you see these doctors with massive egos.

Dr. Clay Moss38:19

I'm convinced that part of that is because you get so far down the road until you finally get a chance to lift your head up. you realize that it's not all it's cracked up to be and you have to like convince yourself that you're doing the right thing and I think that hardens people.

Dr. Clay Moss39:17

Compared to undergrad? Uh it was so well I told you earlier I didn't love the thought of going to Jackson, Mississippi. First I was going to apply to all the Florida schools and then I went and toured and they were like I went toward Florida State first and they were like yeah we had 10,000 applicants last year. We took a hundred and we 90 of them went to Florida State and almost none of them got in directly from undergrad. They all did like three or you know two or three gap years.

Dr. Clay Moss39:42

Where they went and did research or were an EMT.

And I was like okay well I don't want to waste years off my life. So, I'm going to go get my MD at in Mississippi if I can get in.

So, I went that route. I was discouraged at first cuz I was like, four years in Jackson. Like, I don't know. I'm single. Like, I'm not going to meet anybody here.

And I will say like I think it was the four most transformative years of my entire life. I I think I was sharper mentally and physically when I was in Jackson than any other time. Mainly cuz like now I'm I am so grateful of anywhere that I end up. I try not to look at anywhere. I'm very easily charmed. We were in Detroit last weekend and I was like, I freaking love Detroit.

Right. Right. And so I went to Jackson and it was like I went from the super social place in college to not a very social place now.

I started doing meditations every morning. I started getting up and running and going uh lifting four days a week and getting my nutrition right. And I really put myself in a an awesome headsp space. I mean I I don't think many people can say that in medical school. But what I saw time and time again, especially early on, you know, we were studying a ton for all these tests. It was there was a test every Monday and all these people were, you know, pulling 24 hours, like allnighters, studying their asses off.

Then you hit a certain breaking point a few months in where you can't pull those 24 hours anymore because you're so exhausted. And those people would get Adderall and they'd start

Dr. Clay Moss41:07

For sure. It's like taking

Dr. Clay Moss41:09

Yeah, it's no joke. And so they get on aderall so that they can study longer, but then that catches up to them and

Dr. Clay Moss41:16

Then they're taking Yeah. Then they're taking sleep aids and then everything's out of whack. So they start taking anti-depressants to to the point where when I remember the first two years are all in class. The second two years are all kind of in clinics and in the clinical setting. So you don't see each other as much. But we had one get together my fourth year in that same lecture hall that we all started in. And I'm looking around and like nobody looks the same. like most people look considerably older and I remember one girl talking about her um prescription for her anti-depressant and me thinking like oh my god that's fine like a lot of people need that like right I think there's a place for some stuff like that but then I overheard somebody else behind me like start comparing what they were taking and then like at one point it was like 15 people all talking about the anti-depressants that I were on

And I'm just sitting here in the middle like oh my god I'm the only one not totally medicated right now and which is wild because we're the ones prescribing that. So, we're creating this little micro environment of making you feel like it's okay to get on a bunch of [ __ ] to try to convin to try to fix the problems that you've created for yourself for the most part.

Dr. Clay Moss42:18

And now we're the ones going to treat patients.

Dr. Clay Moss42:27

Yeah. It's It's scary, man. It is.

Dr. Clay Moss42:29

It is scary. And it's things that look, I think some people do need it. And I think you hit a certain point where it's like, "Yeah, we got to try something." But also, I don't think people are getting outside enough. I don't think you're connected with nature enough. Like, I don't think we have gratitude like we used to. We're hanging out in, you know, fluorescent lighting all day. Like, we're not meant to be in these environments. We're not meant to have constant dopamine kicks every day from swiping and likes and follows.

And

Dr. Clay Moss43:41

I'll have friends sometimes be like, "Did you check the comments and like look at what those people were saying?" And like look, 90% of the comments are always positive, but nobody will ever see those. Like you always you only register the ones that are terrible.

And I'm like, "No." Cuz like I've not once have I ever left a negative comment on anybody's post ever. If I have a problem with somebody, I'll tell you.

Dr. Clay Moss44:02

Am I crazy?

Uh-huh. 100%. Cuz there's too much negativity in the world. Half of them are fake. Like I think half of them are actually bots that are like trying to, you know, stir [ __ ] up.

But yeah, you you can't live. And like now it's become a job for both of us to kind of be on social media and do that,

Which is hilarious cuz I'm also the guy that's talking about how you need to get back to like a natural living. So it's this weird paradigm.

Social media has been amazing since I've started really doing it in terms of the people that I've been able to meet like yourself.

Dr. Clay Moss45:06

The people supporting you.

Dr. Clay Moss45:16

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss45:39

You one of the first times I talked to you on the phone. This is a I was telling my wife this the other day. I thought this was so funny. I think

I think I can't remember what it was. It was something about LinkedIn or DMs and you said you said when people reach out to you on on your DMs on on Instagram that you would just cold call them cuz they'd be like hey would love to chat and you just cold call them just to like almost surprise them of like what the hell do you want to chat about and they don't have anything to say?

Dr. Clay Moss46:25

I want to start doing that.

Dr. Clay Moss46:32

That's incredible

Cuz I'm like, "Who wants to talk to me? I don't want to talk to myself. I like I don't even want I don't want to be around me. You want to hang out with me?" It is weird especially when you have a social media presence cuz like you feel like you're the same person that you were before. You are for the most part.

But it's funny like you know all my friends and family like they've seen me at my absolute worst. So like my friends and family some family think that you know still think I'm an idiot which I am for a lot of times.

But it's funny now cuz like my parents will like you know tell them for years like oh you need to take creatine you should start doing this. You start strength training. And they won't do it. But then like their friend who follows me on Instagram now that's like a distant relative and a cousin will now see them and be like, "Oh, I started strength training and trains my life because of what your son said." And then and then my parents start doing it. I'm like, "You got to wait till some randa tells you."

Dr. Clay Moss48:27

People are selfish on social media in a good way. You should be on social media to get something good out of it. Exactly.

And I just want to be the person to I don't think it's good. And I think we're past the days of like the Kardashian social media, you know, trend where it's just like look how badass my life is. Nobody

Dr. Clay Moss49:10

He's [snorts] doing everything.

Dr. Clay Moss49:26

Uh, probably just the amount of volume you have to take in. Like, you learn really quickly how to study. I wish I would have I would It's funny you always want to go back like you always want to I always have dreams of like playing high school football again, which is what I know now and how to take certain supplements and weight train. [clears throat]

I wish I had known how to study in like high school and college like I did in medical school cuz you have to drink from a fire hose. Like you cannot take in that much information and get through and pass. We had multiple people that just didn't make it through because Yeah. And it's very hard and it's mentally taxing.

Dr. Clay Moss49:56

Yeah. I wouldn't go as far to say to say that. Those guys that's that's different.

Dr. Clay Moss50:02

Yeah, for sure. I I think it's the most I think it's safe to say it's the most grueling academic stent that you can do on a large scale. I'm sure there's PhD studies that are the worst, but yeah, I mean I think you know you're going through anatomy, physiology, hisystologology, biochemistry, pharmarmacology,

Dr. Clay Moss50:25

Very cool. I think um the difficulty of it and just the expectation takes away from the awe factor a little bit, which is kind of sad. Like,

You know, if I was in if there weren't any stakes behind it and I could go and dissect a human body, like that's crazy, right? But, you know, the fact that it's like, okay, you're dissecting human body and by the way, you're going to be tested on it tomorrow and like you could lose everything that you've worked for. It's like, oh [ __ ]

So, that was tough. But, I don't know. I think I came in one to be a surgeon, right? Like I I thought that that was what I was called to do. A guy came and spoke to us first day of school and was like, "Hey, 90% of you won't do what you came in here to do or thinking that you're going to do." And I was like, "That's [ __ ] I'm going to be a surgeon."

And I got into the surgery part like my third and fourth year. and I my first big surgery. We were in a 12 and 1/2 hour long plastic surgery where they reconstructed this guy's face with his leg. And we're like 4 hours in and I'm at this point I'm already like, "Yo, I want to I want to go home. I'm going to faint. I'm so tired.

I'm going to faint. Like it's it's just fluorescent lighting. There's no windows.

Like it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon." And and there's another medical student with me who I know really well. And she like I looked at her and she was like loving it and I was like okay. Then I remember checking back like at 10 hours in she still was like and so at that moment I was like that's not me therefore I'm not going to do this. And so it was like a huge like identity shift like

Dr. Clay Moss51:49

I told everyone I told everyone I ever got in contact with including my family, my best friends, anyone that I was going to be a surgeon and to come find me when I was a famous plastic not famous but you know plastic surgeon or orthopedic surgeon

And and then I had to shift and so I I didn't really know what to do. I had good mentors thankfully there's a good amazing functional medicine guy in Pensacola uh Dave Lame and he's still practicing. He works with some big level athletes too and he went into this field called PMR which is physical medicine and rehabilitation. and it's a medical specialty that's like very not very wellnown. It it kind of became popular after World War II when we had all these vets coming home with complex injuries and needed more of a medical staff to kind of lead their rehab.

So I found this field. We didn't even have a a program at the medical school that I was at. So I like reached out to people in the community. Ended up doing rotations in Tampa, Dallas, Miami just to like try to pick people's brains and find out if I wanted to do it. And it's super broad. Like we take care of people that have had brain injuries, spinal cord injuries, strokes, amputations, you know, fallen and broken their hips, got a hip replacement, uh but also sports medicine side.

Tons of ultrasound guided joint injections, a lot of

Dr. Clay Moss53:03

A lot of interventional uh spine procedures. That's what I'm doing this month in a cancer hospital.

Dr. Clay Moss53:08

So, I like the hands-on side of it. And I knew at this point I knew like

PMR is not that hard of a residency compared to a surgery residency. Maybe I'll have a little bit of time outside so that I can even pay for fellowships in functional medicine that so I can learn that. So I'll have time to do both. I'll get the hands-on experience with the ultrasound stuff so I can use stem cells and PRP and all this, but I can also learn the functional stuff while I'm in residency so that when I come out, I'm ready to roll.

Dr. Clay Moss53:42

So you graduate with an MD and then you you match. It's like literally fraternity rush. Like you apply to all these places,

They will rank you and depending on how that rank day goes, you walk up on stage and open a letter and you're like, "Here's where I'm going for the next for me four years."

Dr. Clay Moss53:58

Yeah. Like you literally get a letter of like like it's a match process. So like you I rank all the let's just say I interviewed at 15 places.

Those 15 places are ranking all 600 900 medical students that applied there. And it's this big algorithm that sorts you almost like Harry Potter with the hat on. And yeah, you get a letter that day. I think it's an email now, but you walk up, tear the letter open. You're like, I'm going to walk up where on stage at your medical school for like like a graduation ceremony.

Dr. Clay Moss54:26

Not yet. So, you're like right before graduation, you're doing this.

Dr. Clay Moss54:31

Everyone's there.

Dr. Clay Moss54:35

You don't have to. And some medical schools don't do the the theatrics of it.

Dr. Clay Moss54:43

It's exactly like that. It's exactly like that.

Dr. Clay Moss54:50

You could tell people are disappointed beforehand. You have the opportunity to open it before you go on stage. But at that point, I was I was single and like I was going anywhere but Jackson. So, I was like, I kind of want to feel this moment. Like I want to have the panic attack on stage.

Dr. Clay Moss55:05

And it says, "I'm going to Tampa." So,

Dr. Clay Moss55:07

Tampa's a great place. I loved it and I loved my time there when I was a medical student. I came and saw it. So, yeah, it was great. You graduate then and then you move to Tampa. You spend your first year of residency doing what's called a prelim or an intern year where you're not doing anything to do with your specialty. You're getting you're kind of Swiss Army knifing it where you're doing three months of internal medicine in the hospital, month of like ICU, a month of rheumatology, of orthopedic surgery, of neurosurgery, of radiology,

Dr. Clay Moss55:35

It was very cool. And and so you're doing all these things to just become more well-rounded as a physician. After that first year, you take another standardized test. You get your full medical license

And then you have three more years of residency to get board certified. Board certified just means like, hey, you can practice whatever you did,

Dr. Clay Moss55:53

Yeah. Well, you don't need to be board certified. Like there's a lot of physicians like you know that don't get board certified, which but it's preferred to, you know.

Dr. Clay Moss56:01

I got 10 months left until I'm done. Done. So,

Dr. Clay Moss56:10

Ah, that's a good question, man. And then I And then I just go open up shop somewhere.

Dr. Clay Moss56:15

So I I considered doing a fellowship. So

Dr. Clay Moss56:18

A fellowship is where you go and train. It's basically an extension of residency in a more defined field. So for PMR, the popular ones are mainly sports medicine or pain medicine. But for like for me if I want I didn't want to do pain medicine because like you kind of put yourself in a box and I don't want to do spine procedures all day and I don't want to deal with opioids anymore.

Dr. Clay Moss56:38

Sports medicine

Is kind of glorified. Uh but you're mainly doing sideline work and a lot of times you end up at like a local high school and you know I I want to do perform like human performance

But I don't necessarily want to be the sideline doc at a local high

Dr. Clay Moss57:05

That's the goal. That's the goal. I mean, I want to do I want to really get in and get to know my patients and I want to do, you know, IV therapies, make people feel better quicker so that they can kind of get their

I want to give people the tools in order to start and continue the momentum of like getting healthy or or being healthier or just optimizing. Like it doesn't matter whether it's an athlete like you that's running 10 miles a day doing [ __ ] races in the GOI desert

Or the CEO of some like local, you know, hedge fund company or something, right? Like everybody wants to perform better.

Dr. Clay Moss57:37

And and I I love the opportunity to work with high performing individuals because I just like being around that. I love just the air in the room when I'm talking to somebody that's done a lot of [ __ ]

Just so I can take something from that selfishly. And I want people to perform the best they possibly can at whatever they want to do. So whether that's in-depth lab testing and then maybe hormones or peptides or just vitamins, IV NAD, I mean there's so many levers you can pull on that you just don't have in the traditional model.

Dr. Clay Moss58:40

That's a lot. Okay. Yeah. That is a lot.

Dr. Clay Moss59:31

Yeah. I'm like, look, if I handed you a brand new car, you'd probably take care of it less than if you bought it with your own money, right? So, like when you invest in something, you're going to take more interest in it. And especially your health, I think if you invest in your own health, you're going to have more of a vested interest in in performing. And if you have a good doctor patient relationship and it feels like an actual team, like you are a team and you are trying to accomplish a goal, I'm here to help you.

So whatever you need, help, let me help you get there. And I like that. And I also think, you know, there's a lot of people talk a lot about like what's wrong with the peptide space or maybe what's right with it or supplements or whatever, but I just like having as many tools as possible. And I don't I don't think us as physicians, at least in the the lane of well care, not sick care over here, but preventative care or optimization, I don't think we should be gatekeepers to anything, right?

Like I if if you're my patient and you want to accomplish a certain goal and you're determined to get there, then I think it's my duty to at least attempt to help you get there in a safe and effective way. As long as you know risks, benefits, any unknown, there's so many different things. But I think you have a lot of power and you should have a lot of power in your own health. I don't like gatekeeping and keeping people's autonomy away from their own health.

Dr. Clay Moss1:01:28

I agree. 100% agree.

Dr. Clay Moss1:01:51

I was a medical I was a first year medical student when COVID hit. And I I mean, I I was I was indoctrinated at that point.

Dr. Clay Moss1:01:57

Or just, you know, but I was believing what I was told. Like, why wouldn't you? You're a medical student. You have plenty of respected professors around you.

We're all smart. We can make our own decisions. I was that guy that was like telling my friends like, "Hey, like I think you might be selfish if you don't go get the vaccine." Right.

Dr. Clay Moss1:02:11

I was also forced to get the vaccine. You know, I I willingly did it, but like if I had said no, it would have been no bueno.

And I got the vaccine and then uh I mean this is my own lived experience. I'm not hating on the vaccine in total. I think for some people it could have been okay. But I developed a you know a softball sized lymph node in my armpit for 6 weeks.

Chest pain that I went to I went to the ER twice for.

Dr. Clay Moss1:02:33

Yeah. So I had like very brain fog that lasted forever. I mean, I had symptoms that were clearly at least right around the time that I got the booster shot

And and like that was my lived experience. And I also felt like I was in this atmosphere where like

I can't even say what happened to me. Like I can't even be in a room and be like, "Hey, I felt like [ __ ] afterwards for a long time. I literally just got back from the ER. I can't say that, you know, in that setting. You can't do that."

Dr. Clay Moss1:02:57

Yeah, I did that and then a couple other things like I I I struggled with anxiety pretty bad um like towards the later years of college like had panic attacks, things like that. Um

Dr. Clay Moss1:03:13

Oh man, like I think sophomore year of college was my first one and it was like you know my jaw locked up. I started getting like chest pain. My legs got heavy.

Dr. Clay Moss1:03:27

I was visiting a friend in Tallahassee actually. I was visiting a friend the first time and I looked at him like it was like 6:00 p.m. We weren't even out. We were going to go out that day and I was like, I think I'm having a heart attack. Like I really do. And then like it all kind of like locked up. I couldn't even talk to him. He threw me in the like cold shower. Didn't go away. I mean, he got me up and we started like limping to his car basically for him to take me to the hospital and it subsided.

I didn't know what it was. Like I grew up thinking that anxiety was just like the guy who's scared to run out on the football field cuz that he's not living up to the moment, right? And then it hits and now it's like seeds been planted. It's it's always there, right? I mean, even today coming to the podcast, it's always there of like, am I going to have a panic attack 3 minutes before sitting down on the podcast, right?

And I've had speaking arrangements where I have one 5 minutes before going on stage. It doesn't happen that frequently and I I've controlled it. Like I have a good relationship with it now. But I think that when I got into medical school, I started doing some things that maybe modern medicine wouldn't have told me to do. I started doing meditation. I started messing with my diet. I did an anti-inflammatory diet. I did carnivore for a while. I felt amazing. Probably just cuz it was it was a great um elimination diet.

Eliminated everything. And it just kind of changed my lens and how I see how to treat certain problems now. Like I didn't need

Xanax. Like I had a I had a doctor that was like, "You should take the Xanax." I'm like, "I'm not going to."

Dr. Clay Moss1:05:36

So I've never done that. I've never taken Xanax or I think maybe I tried a Klonopin when I was in college whenever they which is like a mini Xanax, I guess. But one thing that I do keep like kind of on deck and I rarely use it but is propranolol which is a it's a blood pressure medication that came out a while like back 60 70 years ago.

Turned out to be a terrible blood pressure medication. Didn't didn't lower your blood pressure that much but they found the people that were taking it were consistently less anxious and quickly like within 30 to 45 minutes. And so propranolol is kind of like the public speaker's drug for for combating public speaking anxiety. And it's amazing. It's one of the few medications that I think has an awesome use case because it's non-addictive. Um, and it really doesn't have that many downsides. I mean, if you take if you overdose on it, yeah, you could have low heart rate and a lot of other issues, but

It's generally considered as safe and it just blunts the effects of uh of adrenaline. So, basically like it it slightly lowers your heart rate. It's good for tremors. It stops the sweating in your palms. And so it almost it almost reverse psychologies your mind and thinking like I'm not having a panic attack. It's like I feel like I'm not having symptoms of it.

So that's that's one I do I do keep on on hand and it's almost just like a safety net, right?

So but I've gotten better at

Being able to calm myself down, being more comfortable in my own skin. I think being generally more allaround healthy, like getting the labs done and taking the right supplements and

Getting the sleep is probably the biggest one. When I overdo it on caffeine, I start to go more of an anxious, you know, route. So there's so many things that at first I was like this is all just, you know, happening to me. And now I'm like I'm picking up on little things here and there.

Dr. Clay Moss1:07:13

But I I I think there's power in having that safety net, right? Even if you're not going to take the propranol or the sanex, I'd probably caution against sanex. But

It is nice to know like, okay, if something's about to happen, like I have something there for.

Yeah. You know,

Dr. Clay Moss1:07:27

So, we know that in terms of all cause mortality, we know that VO2 max has pulls the biggest lever. So, VO2 max for those that aren't listening or that are listening and don't know is your body's ability to basically take oxygen and utilize it to the most efficient way possible that it can do. And the way to increase VO2 max is by doing cardio, especially like steady state and high-intensity cardio.

However, I don't think we have as many studies on strength training in terms of all cause mortality, especially long-term studies. So I think we that it might creep up to that level. It's still closely behind in terms of muscle mass and strength are huge predictors in how long you will live and how well you will live.

But if I had to recommend one or the other for somebody, I think I'm choosing weightlifting all day long and for a couple reasons. One is if I'm looking at somebody that's doing nothing for themselves and they're like, "Hey, I need to get back on track."

If they go running on a treadmill for two months, they might not see any change in the mirror. They might feel better for sure,

But they might not feel see any difference in the mirror. Whereas, if you go weightlifting for three months, especially if you've never done it before, your shirts are going to start fitting differently. You're going to be standing a little taller when you walk in the room. And I think it's a good catalyst. It's easy. Like, it's not that hard.

And it's an easy catalyst to like set off other things in motion. When you start looking better, you want to start eating better. You might even start doing cardio. So, I think it's the great catalyst. And I also think especially in terms of obesity and frailty, the more muscle you have, it almost acts as a as a as a sponge for glucose. So it gives you more of a buffer to kind of have slip up and have a worse diet every now and then. If you go eat a huge thing of spaghetti, somebody with low muscle mass is probably going to respond much worse than somebody with high muscle mass cuz that spaghetti turns into sugar in your blood and then it gets sucked up by the muscle first before the insulin response.

Yeah. But if you don't have that muscle, it's just a bunch of sugar that needs more insulin and you create insulin resistance, which inevitably creates dementia and cardiovascular disease and all those other things.

Dr. Clay Moss1:10:07

Agreed

Dr. Clay Moss1:10:30

Oh, that's insane.

Dr. Clay Moss1:10:31

Uh, I mean, maybe you think that because you're a psychopath, but I mean that's that's insane for for most people for sure.

Dr. Clay Moss1:11:19

And you're breathing through a straw

Dr. Clay Moss1:11:44

I'll tell you this too because I see a lot of patients through the lens of of rehab because that's what I'm in right now.

And the overall mortality of breaking a hip, especially after the age of 65, is horrendous. I mean, it's like God, I don't know the exact number anymore, but it's like 5 years after breaking a hip, it's like 70 to 80% of people are dead.

Dr. Clay Moss1:12:45

No. And like it's funny. I've talked about this so many times and nobody's ever brought that up and that is one that's that's so so spot on. I would say that's a huge chunk of it, right? like you literally lose the urge to go on if you're not interacting with the world around you. But I do like I think a lot of it also I mean god I'm trying to think of the exact the exact number but the one day of bed rest is like losing six weeks of you know strength training right like you you lose so much muscle mass with each day of bed rest and so if you break your hip not only is not only are you going to have imbalance walking for the rest of your life.

You might break another hip but like you aren't getting out of bed anymore. You aren't doing the things that you love. There's so many other things like you aren't getting any cardiovascular training. your heart goes to [ __ ] I mean, there's there's a huge decline that happens. I mean, like, I see people age more so after breaking a hip than after anything else.

Dr. Clay Moss1:13:36

With strength training, when you mechanically load your bones, that is the stimulus in order to build bone, if not at least stave off osteoporosis, right? So, we think of like, you know, your wife or my wife, like they're smaller, more frail people. it is more important for them to go strength train than probably anyone else because when they hit, you know, 70, 80 years old, it's going to be a lot harder to put on on bone density. And that extra muscle also serves as padding for if you fall, maybe you don't break the hip, right?

So your bones are stronger, you have more muscle, and on top of that, you also like if you're doing back squats or you're doing deadlifts, like you have to you have to constantly work these tiny little muscles that help you balance that with propriception. And that's something that we take for granted when we're younger, but when you get older, that's really hard to keep track of.

Dr. Clay Moss1:14:58

I mean if we cut our testicles off we would need to go to the hospital immediately like it would be a medical emergency for a man to get castrated without hormone replacement

But for women we just I mean we treated it as totally normal when they go from

Completely completely fine to within a year or two years to absolute zero and they're having all these issues and their doctor tells them it's just part of aging when now we have a solution for that you know and I think

Man that's one of the biggest things that I think we've done wrong as a medical community as demonized hormone replacement therapy specifically for women for so long and if I could go back in time I would have told my younger self how important that is because like my mom is like 62 now yeah or 60 and she's been 10 years you know through menopause and now is at that time her if she's tried to start hormones, but she's so used to not having it that she's has issues starting it.

So, she's kind of behind the ball. And I know how many I mean there's so many benefits that women can have from hormone replacement therapy from bone marrow density to mood to I mean sexual health to so many things, a lot of things.

And and we basically deprived I mean hundreds of millions of women. And worse than that, we took it out of completely out of medical education. Like,

Dr. Clay Moss1:16:10

We learn all day about chemotherapy drugs that 94% of us will never use, let alone see in practice, but we don't talk about replacing the hormones that make us feel human.

Dr. Clay Moss1:17:28

Wow.

Dr. Clay Moss1:17:52

Yeah and I think a lot of times we're doing absolute risk versus relative risk so let's just say you know three out of a thousand women get get breast cancer if they're on the drug versus or you know if they're doing one intervention versus one in a thousand that's that's triple the risk. You can frame it however you want but like going from one in a th000 to 300 in a thousand you could say is a 300% you know what I mean?

Yeah. So yeah, I think it's important to talk to a doctor that actually knows the statistics and get I think second opinions matter most on the back end because I do think it's maybe a little bit crazy of us to say no, you should just feel lucky that you're alive or you can't what do you mean you what do you mean you want hormones to like help your overall mood and

You know muscle function, sexual function, all these other things like you should be thankful that you're alive you know like that's crazy that we talk like that.

Dr. Clay Moss1:18:56

Yeah,

Dr. Clay Moss1:19:01

Yeah. I'm I think I'm probably more so in your court. I don't like to follow the rules too much. But

Dr. Clay Moss1:19:07

Yeah. Yeah, the medical field is a weird place, man. It's uh going back to what you said earlier, though on the positive side, I do think we're at the most fun part of medical intervention and and progression right now. I mean, we talked about the the uh pancreatic cancer drug that just came out. Peptides are now becoming more widespread and more accepted. You know, we're we're getting to this age where with AI, we're starting to advance so rapidly. And I think patients are getting more invested in in their health, not only for just like saving off chronic disease, but also optimizing things.

And that makes it fun for a clinician, too.

Dr. Clay Moss1:20:43

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss1:21:03

I mean he's literally on like a toy right now he did Rogan he did modern wisdom and he's talking about this where they basically for there's four Yamanaka jeans they took three of them a combination

And left out one so that the the proliferation doesn't go to the cancer stage

I love that I love people like that that are just so you could say all you want about that whole mentality of trying to live forever and trying to improve and extend lifespan. But like that's this guy's passion and he loves it. Obviously, you know him personally. I love when people get that into their work where they're just so passionate to share it with the world, too.

Dr. Clay Moss1:22:03

And look, I think there's enough data for some of those things to at least have a signal that they're have a potential to do so.

Also, at the same time, I don't think a lot of them are harmful in any way most in most forms. And like if I gave you a blood if I gave you a sugar pill and told you it was a blood pressure medication, like your blood pressure is probably going to go down, right? Like if you genuinely believe in something and you're taking it,

I also think that has an impact as well. So, like if they are working and you also believe in it, that's why I love when people are taking supplements, I love to ask them why are you taking it?

Because like if you're taking vitamin D and you don't know why, I don't think you're going to get as much benefit as if you knew what like if you were taking your supplements in the morning, you're like, I'm taking my magnesium for muscle recovery and sleep, you're probably going to recover faster and sleep better. You know, the mind is crazy. And so, I think if you're you know what you're taking, it's going to have a better impact.

Dr. Clay Moss1:23:55

Yeah. It was a prescription I think for a while.

Dr. Clay Moss1:24:55

Yeah. I mean, omega-3s in particular, there's that famous study where if your omega-3 index is less than four, Yeah. you're basically at a similar risk as if you were a smoker and smoke cigarettes than if you were compared to if you were eight and above. So

Yeah, we know that there are certain supplements that that carry considerable weight, especially if you are deficient in them. And I think nowadays our soil sucks. Even if you're getting, you know, even if you're getting organic or whatever it may be, and you're eating high quality food, we might still be at a deficit. So I I think we're we're seeing that. And no, I I don't like to tell anybody that they they need supplements.

Yeah. But in a lot of cases, yeah, I think that they maybe to optimize things. I think a lot of people do need them.

Dr. Clay Moss1:25:35

Oh man. So, this is a tough one and it's very heavily debated. So, I I would say progressive sun exposure is not a bad thing. I think we're too scared of the sun as a society.

That's exactly right. I don't want people to go get burned because I think melanoma risk is heavily dependent on burn and especially like how many times you get burned over a lifetime.

But progressive sun exposure, I mean, look, you look like a football. I mean, you're tan as hell. You probably don't need sunscreen, right?

Dr. Clay Moss1:26:04

Right? And you are outside a ton, but I wouldn't tell somebody that's, you know, pale as my butt to go outside and sit on a beach all day.

I would tell them to use either protective clothing or zinc based sunscreen. I'm not I'm not trying to put oxyenzone and octoryline and homo salate on my skin. Like no, I'm not. That's that's insane to me. That sounds It's same thing with like fluoride in the water supply too. It's like I don't understand what we're making the the case that we need fluoride in our water supply to protect our teeth. Like just go get fluoride toothpaste. Exactly. That's like drinking sunscreen to avoid a sunburn. Like no, just go put it on your teeth.

We don't need a potential neuro disruptor in our water supply, you know?

Dr. Clay Moss1:27:18

No. Right. And like I think the benefits that you're probably getting from going outside and exercising and connecting with the earth and being in nature and and getting benefits from the sun itself outweigh the potential risks. I agree. At least for you. Like don't get burned. Nobody get burned. But yeah, I think it outweighs the risk. like you're getting way more bang for your buck from going outside and exercising and getting, you know, out sun in your eyes and recorrecting your cortisol curve and all these other things that we know are beneficial for us that we get deprived of in our office jobs all day long that I I think that we're focusing too much on one aspect of an entire system that needs to be addressed.

Dr. Clay Moss1:28:31

Go out more in the morning and in the afternoon when there's no UV. Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss1:28:42

Yeah. At some point you just got to let a kid be a kid too.

Dr. Clay Moss1:28:46

One supplement I've been taking recently that I think is pretty interesting is uh lithium. Like not prescription level lithium like for bipolar depression or anything like that which is you know 600 to 2,000 milligrams. But lithium oritate

Between 1 and 20 on the high part, but I take around like 1 to 5 milligrams a day.

So basically, lithium comes from ground water a lot of the time. Like it's in some of our foods, but groundwater in particular used to have pretty decent levels of lithium. Like in an entire day, you'd probably drink one or two milligrams maybe of lithium. And there are some interesting studies, although smaller, that link places lithium concentration in their water supply to the uh incidence of like homicide and aggressive behavior.

Dr. Clay Moss1:29:29

So lithium we know is a mood stabilizer, which is why at super high dose we give it to people with with bipolar.

Oh, okay. Um, but at really low doses, like supplemental style lithium, there's a there's a pretty interesting theory that we might be actually living in a lithium deficit because we're we're constantly, you know, filtering all of our water. We got all of our water supply from the city. We don't really get groundwater much anymore. We use reverse osmosis systems. And so there's that and there's the fact that like now there's some things coming out saying okay maybe Alzheimer's actually might be at a relative lithium deficiency in the brain because all these tal proteins in the brain will actually suck up the amount of lithium that's like that's in the brain and people that supplement lowdose lithium oritate with Alzheimer's some of them tend to have a little bit better outcomes or or at least better symptomatic management.

So, that's been one that I've I've added in. And I won't say I've noticed like anything crazy,

Although I've heard anecdotes of people feeling like they feel calmer and less less, you know, kind of brain running at night.

Dr. Clay Moss1:30:28

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think it's worth trying out. It's not very

I wouldn't say it's dangerous by any means. I' talk to your doctor like if you take other other supplements and stuff before, but uh yeah, that's a pretty cool one that that recently I've gone down some rabbit holes about.

Dr. Clay Moss1:31:07

Yeah. I'm not I mean I I would tell everybody not to ever drink ground tap water. No, I mean because I mean we talked a second ago about how many medications everybody's on. Where is that coming out? It's all coming out in our ground water and you have 100,000 200,000 people in one, you know, setting where it's all being filtered through. So I I think it would be stupid to think that we're filtering 100% of all of that out of the groundwater. We also or out of the the tap water.

We also have, you know, chlorines and fluorides in there and those can compete with certain things and receptors in our body that can throw things off. So, no, I would I would heavily rely on something like Aurora or a countertop reverse osmosis system or just something like like I even have those glass 5gallon jugs.

Dr. Clay Moss1:31:52

That I'll fill up at uh at Publix um with like the their alkalized or whatever water, which I think that's a little overrated, but it's filtered. Yeah. I would not do do tap water.

Dr. Clay Moss1:32:30

I love these. This is sick. I need I need a branded one.

Dr. Clay Moss1:32:47

We were talking about like how exciting medicine's gotten. I think brands in general in terms of like all these health brands that are coming out are just as exciting. I mean, I feel like there's so much badass stuff that's coming out on a weekly basis.

Dr. Clay Moss1:33:09

And now anybody can go and get a sauna in their home for like less than $2,000.

Oh my god. Sauna 50 grand.

Dr. Clay Moss1:33:32

Helps you sleep at night.

Dr. Clay Moss1:33:40

Yeah. For somebody like you,

Dr. Clay Moss1:33:42

Well, yeah, cuz you lose so much water during your workouts,

Dr. Clay Moss1:33:48

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss1:34:00

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss1:34:07

Yeah. I went on a run this morning. I was dying, too. It's just brutal.

Not going on can ride out runs, but my my two-mile run was sucked this morning.

Dr. Clay Moss1:35:21

God, I so much rather be in the heat than the cold. You're you're a northerner, so you

Dr. Clay Moss1:35:33

30s.

Dr. Clay Moss1:35:39

Oh, that's that's crazy. [clears throat]

Dr. Clay Moss1:36:06

I need some tips. I told you I just I just uh signed up for my first half marathon in California. though.

Dr. Clay Moss1:36:12

It's the Sun Sun City or Sun Surf City. The one in Hunts Beach.

Dr. Clay Moss1:36:21

Who?

Dr. Clay Moss1:36:45

Heard one of the cooler ones,

Dr. Clay Moss1:36:48

Really? My friend texted me and he was like, "If we're going to do one for a first one, we should make it dope." Yeah, I heard.

Dr. Clay Moss1:37:17

God, man. A year and a half ago January or this past January?

Dr. Clay Moss1:37:26

But so so it's still kind of been like 8 months since you

Dr. Clay Moss1:37:29

Do you just kind of lose that like you've done it so many times that?

Dr. Clay Moss1:37:38

Is there a part of you I mean I know you're you're crazy in terms of things that you want to do, but is there part of you that hits, you know, that title of one of the fastest, if not the fastest man over 50 years old, and you're like, well, I don't really want to race anymore cuz like I don't want to lose it.

Dr. Clay Moss1:38:19

Have you ever done one

You've done a high rocks before

Dr. Clay Moss1:39:36

I love how that's the end I [clears throat] love how that's the end of the story but I won the age group.

Dr. Clay Moss1:39:59

I was going to ask.

Dr. Clay Moss1:40:03

Was going to ask, have they started yet?

Dr. Clay Moss1:40:34

Yeah.

Dr. Clay Moss1:40:52

The treadmill is like a sled in itself, too. It's sick.

Dr. Clay Moss1:41:20

I could give a [ __ ] what my future like bathroom looks like. As long as I have a badass home gym, I'm so happy.

Dr. Clay Moss1:41:36

Dude, then you you literally can't look in the mirror and be like, "You fat piece of shit." Like, you can't do that cuz you have no excuse. You literally go downstairs

Dr. Clay Moss1:42:07

Like an idiot.

Dr. Clay Moss1:42:56

Hell yeah.

All right.

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:03

Would you still do the 10 mile run even after working? Like with

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:11

That's wild.

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:11

Every single day. Like would you go insane if you miss a day?

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:25

Is it more so a thing for is it the thing for yourself or is it just because

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:42

No way.

Yes. I

Yes.

No way. Do you want

Dr. Clay Moss1:43:46

I have a friend that went recently and and loved the experience. Oh yeah. had an amazing experience. Did I gain in uh DM T D T D T D T D T D T D T D T D T D T DMT? Yeah, for those watching, I don't recommend doing that just willy-nilly. Find somebody that you know does Ambio Life.

Okay. Um that's

Dr. Clay Moss1:44:13

Wow.

Dr. Clay Moss1:44:13

That's amazing.

Dr. Clay Moss1:44:40

I think we should increase access for sure. I mean it should become something that you do under the guidance of of well for ibeane specifically because you know it

Dr. Clay Moss1:44:54

Yeah. Especially by yourself. It widens the interval so you can if you have heart issues but yeah usually you do it under the care of an interventional cardiologist. Right.

Dr. Clay Moss1:45:20

For sure. I think it's very low likelihood, but um it's amazing. I think it's a calming feeling, too, knowing that there's a healthare professional and somebody that's going to walk you through it. You know, I would be [clears throat] nervous, too, but that's just I'm a nervous person at baseline. And so,

Dr. Clay Moss1:45:36

You have? Dude, I think that that's

Dr. Clay Moss1:46:42

A lot of people I've had patients that have done it. Did Did you have any sort of guardian angel experience during it?

Dr. Clay Moss1:48:28

that's I've heard some W and then but DMT is a shorter one right the IAS is the longer term version

Dr. Clay Moss1:48:43

Right right

Dr. Clay Moss1:48:47

It's ibe is not a fun yeah I heard

Dr. Clay Moss1:48:50

I heard it's very humbling

Dr. Clay Moss1:49:12

Offline.

Dr. Clay Moss1:49:18

A patient of mine had those two backto-back experiences. I think it was Ibogaine that he told me about this one. I don't think it was DMT, but I could be wrong. But he said that he was he had kind of a guardian angel type experience that took him to different parts of his life. One of them he tried to he almost killed himself like in his car with his like a gun and it basically made him watch as if he did if he did go through with it and like he was in his park, you know, his uh driveway and he had to sit outside the car and basically watch himself commit suicide and his kids coming up and finding him all this like everything surrounded that.

The next day, this is kind of crazier. He met his grandfather who had been already passed away at that point. But he met his grandfather and his grandfather was at the same age that he was at the time. So like in his like 30s. He

Starts talking to his grandfather and his grandfather is like telling him,

"Hey, like I have to tell you like you do have a lot of trauma that was passed down over generations." And his grandfather in this hallucinogenic experience tells him like, "I had this experience where I watched my best friend drown in a pool when I was young and it scarred me and has created a lot of trauma and I think I pass it down to you." All this stuff. So he gets out of this trip and he's like, "That was pretty crazy." And so he goes and asks his dad and like, "Hey, did grandpa ever mention anything about like a pool?" His dad was like, "No." And he asked his aunt.

And the aunt said no. And then he asked his grandma cuz she's still alive in like her 90s. And he's like, "Did grandpa ever say anything about like a his friend in a pool?" And he said his grandma just broke down crying. And she's like, "He has never told anybody that in his entire life except for me." Like there's no one else could possibly know that story.

Dr. Clay Moss1:50:57

That's

Connor talks kind of the same way, too. He's a very spiritual guy in that aspect.

Dr. Clay Moss1:51:02

I don't know if he's done that, but when he went on Sean Ryan, and I've talked to him, you know, uh, in the course that I take with them, like on kind of calls, he's he's a very spiritual guy that it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't

Or if he had done it.

Dr. Clay Moss1:51:15

I think it's humble. I think it's really a gratifying experience to talk to people that have been through that experience. Yeah.

Even if you haven't gone through it yourself,

You know, even if you don't want to go through it yourself secondhand, having somebody tell you basically what the point of life is is nice.

Dr. Clay Moss1:51:35

Yeah, that's awesome.

Dr. Clay Moss1:52:04

Yeah. Well, man, look, you've been an amazing mentor to me since I met you. So, I want to thank you for that upfront. Uh, I always try to chase good mentors and you've been a hell of a one to me and just made me feel like, you know, it's safe to go out and take risk and do things big and that's amazing. I think I need to hear that at certain times and you deliver that pretty much all the time that I need to hear it.

And just [clears throat] for my name to be mentioned along in the same conversation with some of the names that you mentioned today is humbling to say the least. I mean, I I am chasing some sort of greatness in that aspect, but at the same time like by no means do I consider myself an expert in any way. I'm just trying to learn under, you know, people like you and people like the Andrew Huberman's and the Craig Conovers of the world that are doing it and doing it right.

So, step by step, I'm going to get there at some point. So, I'm excited for what the future holds.

Dr. Clay Moss1:53:36

I love it, man.