Built to Destroy. Forced to Rebuild.

Mark Kerr1:21

Yeah. You know, uh like one of the things that I said early on in my like understanding the complexity of what it is, I go I I put my sword and shield down long time ago.

Mark Kerr1:34

Like I don't have to carry it every day. Like some people have to carry it every day and you can see it

Right, you know, going I don't have to carry my sword and shield, man.

Mark Kerr1:48

No, maybe a shield, but

For a couple things probably still. Yeah.

Mark Kerr2:07

me." I was trying to always find a different word than surreal and I couldn't I couldn't find something that adequately described it because it's indescribable, you know, to have and it's not just and again this is everyone knows the context of not just a person is having Dwayne Johnson play me

And you know the first time actually I saw it um the like the rough rough rough first cut was in January 2025 with my brother Michael and Benny Safdie and myself and it was like one of those I cried the whole time. It felt more like therapy.

Mark Kerr2:53

Cuz a lot of it like they paid so much attention to the detail of it and all these different little nuances and things that that Dwayne did and then Emily did. You know, I almost could I could see my behavior and go, "Oh, that wasn't good."

Mark Kerr3:06

Like that's just really bad behavior. And like I like having to own it.

Yeah. completely own it in those moments going, they got it right.

Mark Kerr4:13

Yeah.

Mark Kerr4:16

You know, the part where I look at it and really, you know, understand like the shame that I was carrying is the thing that kept me

Quiet. Yeah. that I didn't have the ability to say anything to anybody cuz I'm like if they find this out,

You know, and everything I've created over here, they're going to go, "Oh, you're not what we thought you were."

Mark Kerr4:39

You're this weak human being that can't. And that's not addiction. It has nothing to do with that. You know, I was trying to self-medicate for a lot of things. You know, a persona that I can never live up to. Yeah. you know, an idea of myself that was just unrealistic, you know, and then and then if I didn't get to that level, it was like this self-loathing and this just hatred of like of like what's wrong with you, dude? You

And it's this self-perpetuating thing that feeds itself, you know, back like describing it to my son going the internet wasn't the internet. There wasn't like why when I stop using opioids do I get sick?

You couldn't get on the internet. It wasn't. It wasn't. So, it was like this world that I was trapped in and um you know, it it's one of those daunting task that like when it finally came unraveled, it was almost a relief.

Mark Kerr6:30

Yeah. It's funny. My buddy would say, "Put the shovel down."

Mark Kerr6:54

Yeah.

Mark Kerr7:13

In that that just what you said I like growing up and again I I'll say this a thousand times my parents did the best job they could but a lot of that was I felt like I need to accomplish something to get love.

Mark Kerr7:26

And that spirals into when you're an adult it's like that's where all my

Selfworth and everything gets tied up in that accomplishment. like if I'm not this then you're not going to love me or you're not going to like me or I'm not going to get that love. And

And a lot of that fed into, you know, keeping me sick a lot longer.

Mark Kerr7:45

Because it's one where it's like I I I need I you know what I figured out? All this is like everything in the world that I thought that I valued like having a nice house or having this or having that, having that.

It was the most irrelevant thing in the world, an inanimate object.

Um the connection to a human being is really what I value.

Yeah. and understanding like that's that I value more than anything possession that I have.

Mark Kerr8:09

You know, but it's taken me it's taken me a while to get to that point. Same, man. Same. So, where'd you grow up? Michigan.

I grew up in Toledo, Ohio.

Mark Kerr8:17

Toledo, Ohio. Yeah.

Mark Kerr8:20

So, I started wrestling when I was really, really young. I started when I was like four, which is one where you can't even call it wrestling because it's just kids like rolling around on the mat.

Mark Kerr8:30

Yeah. And so it turned from that where I I played baseball for a long time. Yeah. I put wrestling down. My mom got me in baseball and and then I'm the youngest of five kids. My dad was an alcoholic. My dad died sober. He got sober when I was like 15 years old.

And um there was a period of time where my dad's alcoholism was really, really bad. And so my mom, her effort was to take care of my dad. And so for a couple years, me and my brother Matthew, who were 11 months apart, um we no parental guidance.

So in those years, I just I was a a wreck. Like I stole my mom's car scar when I was 14, total it, you know, having beer parties at the house, just unsupervised. And uh my mom made me and my brother Matthew go live with my brother Michael who's 12 years older than me. And um he took legal custody of us. really.

And so in that time frame, he was finishing chiropractor school in in Iowa. Um he went to Palmer, which is the founding school of chiropractic.

Mark Kerr9:36

Yeah. And that changed my whole entire life.

That's one of those, right? Yeah. That like literally my brother goes, "Hey, here's what I'm going to do.

If you don't do exactly what I tell you to do, I'm going to beat the [ __ ] out of you."

Mark Kerr9:51

And there was no like I feared my brother. Yeah.

Like feared my brother.

Mark Kerr9:57

And so I go, "Okay." He goes, "You're playing sports. That's all you're doing."

So I played it literally at this little uh uh city called uh

Bettendorf. They were um

Pat He was a senior and I was a freshman in the same wrestling room.

Mark Kerr10:16

Yeah.

Mark Kerr10:20

Yeah.

Mark Kerr10:22

Oh, furious. So

Mark Kerr10:34

Yeah,

Mark Kerr10:36

Matt Hughes

Matt Hughes. He's he's like he had a lot of good guys coming out of out of his camps.

Mark Kerr11:34

So I'm Bettendorf and the previous year in wrestling they had won the state championship and previous year in football they had won the state championship. So I go into started wrestling when I was four, wrestled for a couple years, gave it up, played baseball, and I go back into a wrestling room where they had just won a state championship when I was 14 years old. I got no choice.

I can't quit the team.

And so I get through that whole year

And uh Pat Axel was really cool about it. And I do remember this. Pat and I have talked about it just, you know, it's one of those where it's where new kid, you know, all the other things you're going to be, you know, I had to take what I had to take, but it's one of those where that experience changed everything. Yeah.

Cuz then my brother finished, got back the school, we moved back to Toledo, Ohio, and the high school that I'm enrolled in still to this day, the high school was built in 1920 something, right? So, it's a 100 years it's been around. I'm still the only state champion ever from that high school.

Mark Kerr12:33

So, it was one school year, but I was there like 18 months.

So, you did one season one season my freshman year in high school, moved back to Toledo my sophomore, won a state championship at my high school as a junior.

Mark Kerr12:45

And that that changed the whole trajectory of my life.

Mark Kerr12:55

Way better? I think I think I would have to look it up, but I think I ended up with like I don't know probably like 25 26 wins and the high school wrestling team had never had anybody like that. It was just so I was just so much better than everybody.

Mark Kerr13:18

So So we I had a coach that still wrestled and he still was good enough to where he was making me better.

Yeah. Okay. And then my junior year there was another coach that came on uh Mark Ktos and he was just like one of those hard nos he was more instead of technique and all this stuff he was work ethic.

Mark Kerr13:38

And so once you build that work ethic into that level it's like

Mark Kerr13:42

You know everything just materialized and it it was just like one of those miracles where you know it got me a scholarship to go to Syracuse University and

Then at Syracuse my senior year I won an NCA championship there.

Yeah. And the crazy part, um, so when I won an NC championship at Syracuse, I ended up wrestling Randy Couture in the finals and I beat him in the

Mark Kerr14:05

Oklahoma State.

Mark Kerr14:06

Yeah. In Oklahoma. That's where that's where championship.

Mark Kerr14:14

Um, Max. I was terrible student. Yeah.

Terrible. Just I didn't know I was dyslexic. Dyslexic until um until my junior year in college. Yeah. So a lot of it a lot of it and again it feeds into what what's made me right is that this narrative of of I was stupid felt I felt stupid.

Mark Kerr14:38

That's different.

Mark Kerr15:15

No. No. Had nothing. So [snorts] you go you go to Syracuse and then the road at Syracuse wasn't exactly a straight road to the top. So this is what's and again I really I've talked about this a couple different times and again this is one of these things I'm still ashamed of

Because it's just behavior. I know I've overcame it with so many good accolades, but after uh my sophomore year at Syracuse, um me and another student athlete, we broke into a couple student housing over Thanksgiving break and uh I finished the wrestling season, think nothing of it. And uh I had a non-athlete that was my roommate at the time and we get into a dispute over a phone bill and he calls campus police. I think you know uh those student housing that were broken. It was in the newspaper all this stuff.

I think you know my roommate did it.

Mark Kerr16:07

Yeah. And so he he literally turns turns me in and I get done like I was training with a training partner of mine, a guy named Chris Campbell. And I get to the student housing and it's like taped off like like police tape and I'm like what the hell? Right. And then and then they pull me in and they're like taking all this stuff out that they're like this is stolen. This is stolen. This is stolen. And it was one where it's like it turned into like a lot of where I am now is that I needed every single thing that happened to me to get to where I am.

Mark Kerr16:44

So as much shame as I have around it, it that incident uh made me grow up.

Mark Kerr16:50

Like really like grow up. So, I had to face literally I didn't get a chance to tell my mom. I go to go to call my parents and and they had already printed it my hometown newspaper in the front page of the sports section. Former weight high school stand out charged with six felonies.

Mark Kerr17:07

Terrible.

Mark Kerr17:10

Yeah. Yeah. They're they're like, "Okay, well, go figure it out. You're not coming home. Like, you're not coming home. We need to go figure it out." Yeah. They're like,

"Go figure what out? Where are you supposed to live?" So that that was the whole thing. They go, "You need to go figure it out." And I'm like, "So where did you go?" So I went back up to Syracuse and um I started with the local fairgrounds. I started pulling cables and pushing cards at concerts that were coming in town. And then from there I ended up uh doing the Who reunion tour. This is 1990 1989. Yeah.

And so the WHO was on a reunion tour. I ended up following them around the country. And I have no car. I keep I'm buming right. This is how crazy it is. I'm I'm buming rides uh with the local guys that do have cars, right? Like I'd go into Washington DC and there'd be guys going, "Hey, the who's going to North Carolina? You want to go to North Carolina?" I'm like, "Yeah." "Hey, who's going to, you know, Boulder, Colorado? You want to go?" I'm like, "Yeah."

Mark Kerr18:04

And get paid cash to do it.

Mark Kerr18:07

They would put us up in hotels. They put us up in hotels. And so I do the Who tour it that ends in San Diego and then the Stones were starting their steel wheels tour in 1989. And so so I call so I call this guy goes, "Hey, I just got hired on. Call this guy Mike Brown. He has this company called UPS, United Production Services." And I'm like, "Okay." I call this guy and he goes, literally, he goes,

"When can you be in Philadelphia, which is their first concert for the Stones is in Philly in St.

And I go,

Uh, tomorrow." And he goes, "Okay, go to the production trailer. Ask for me." I'm like,

And I I I'm way over my skis cuz it literally I get there. This is what's crazy about it. So, I get there and he hands me blueprints, like detailed schematic drawings of the whole entire stage. And he goes, "Take this, go downstage, right, and build the sty spiral staircase." And I'm like, "Okay." And it's all union, so I can't touch anything. I'm just like, So, I like go down, I grab like six guys of forklift, and I spend all day just moving steel around cuz I have no idea what I'm doing.

Yeah. And then finally I get one of the guys on the crew that says, "Hey, listen. The across the st ac across the street they had RFK stadium that was still still up at the time." They go, "We have a stage that's built over there. Come over there tonight and you can actually see what you need to do."

Mark Kerr19:30

And I'm like, "Okay." And so it was like one of those things where he goes, "Here's what I'm going to do." Um, they go, "We're going to hire you for three cities, and if you make it past three cities, we'll keep you on for the rest of the tour." So I did 12 cities with them.

Mark Kerr19:46

This is again, this is where addictions start spiraling into it, you know, just just the whole entire en environment that you're in is is all drug friendly.

Mark Kerr19:56

When the Stones went on tour, it was during football season. So there was a lot of these like uh you would have what's called condensed in condensed outs for the stages. And so you'd have a stage that would be built and going, "Hey, football game's coming in tomorrow. You need to stay here until the stage is completely down and out." That means that sometimes you'd have to work 30 hours, 35 hours.

Mark Kerr20:16

And so you'd have you'd have guys that would go, "Hey, here's here's a little bump. Go ahead." You know, so you'd have my bosses going, "You need to stay on site." You know, here's a little bit of coke. Go ahead. I mean, it's it's crazy to think like

Like it probably still exists on some level to say, but it was brazen back then. was out in the open of like you'd yell up into the stage like who's holding and you have like three guys climb down going what do you need you know

So crazy

Mark Kerr20:50

So I end up going back to Syracuse I end up settling the legal stuff um and I I celebrate my 21st birthday and my parents don't even acknowledge it

Mark Kerr20:59

And um

My they're like go figure it out you know and fortunately enough I had sent some of the money I was making on tour to my mom. She had banked it. So, I had a little bit of a bank roll. So, I went back to Syracuse. The assistant wrestling coach, Gene Mills, said, "Come live on my basement floor," which I wish I lived on his basement floor. So, I This is how crazy it was. So, I needed to get academically eligible.

Mark Kerr21:23

It's called satisfactory. Like, the NCA has something called satisfactory progress. Yeah. Meaning, every year you're at the university as a scholarship athlete, you have to accumulate so many credits per year. So it's satisfactory towards a degree at the end of year four years or five years. So I had to get that up and I had to get my grades up. So I went to excuse me community college community college during the day and then I started running actually which it was later literally I I was so out of shape it would be like from [snorts] one telephone pole to the next telephone pole and then I'd walk the next and run the next it just cuz I could I couldn't do more than that.

Mark Kerr22:01

So, it'd be like, "Okay, I got one mile in today." You know, but but it was one of those where um I did that and then at night I worked at UPS like 5 hours a night and it was the best thing that I could have ever done.

Mark Kerr22:14

Yeah.

Mark Kerr22:19

Yep.

Mark Kerr22:19

Yep. And the whole entire thing. And then I had to write um I had to write to the university explaining why they should have me back.

Mark Kerr22:27

And and here's why I like sitting in this for a second. So, so they had me back. Two years after that, I win an NCA championship for the university, the fifth in its history. Yeah. Right.

And they vote me athlete of the year in 1992.

Mark Kerr22:42

So, I go from this disgrace two years earlier.

Mark Kerr22:46

That's a good comeback story. H I could have just dropped the mic at that point, but it's just one where

Mark Kerr23:00

So completely sober. It was one where it's like I it's one of those where it's like I like I knew that um the feeling that I got at that point from doing any kind of coke was just like this disgusting.

Yeah. You know, it's 4 in the morning and I'm like, "Oh god, I need to go get more." You know, it's like just that disgusting feeling. I'm like, "You know what? I'm I'm done with that."

Mark Kerr23:23

And it was like I had a mission, you know, for whatever reason it affected me like to be labeled as a thief. It was just a horrible like it bothered me like to the point where like if we were in a room here and somebody goes, "Oh, my wallet's missing." I would feel guilty.

Mark Kerr23:39

Because it'd be like everyone would go like, "Did you take it?" And I'm like, "Oh my god, man." So it was like character and I was like, "I'm rebuilding my character. That was my mission."

Mark Kerr23:51

You know, like, so it was

No partying. It was concentrated like this is what I need to do. And so I worked from that January all the way until I finally got it admitted back into Syracuse like late like right before the school year started.

Mark Kerr24:12

So that started the Olympic cycle. So um I graduated in '92 and then so I said I'm going to give myself one Olympic cycle, four years.

Mark Kerr24:23

And so I start training to make the US world team.

Um and so actually my mentor drops me off at Foxcatcher. He drops me with Dave Schultz. So I wrestled for Foxcatcher from 93 94 95.

Mark Kerr24:42

96 January 96?

Mark Kerr24:45

Terrible. Terrible.

Mark Kerr24:48

It was It was Shanger Lop. It was

Mark Kerr24:53

Everything.

Mark Kerr24:55

No, no, no, no. It's so the So, when you finally get signed, like I go down and meet Dave Schultz in the fall of 92 and my mentor Chris Campbell hands me to him and says, "Listen, this is who you need. He's going to be able to help you get to the next level." And so, [snorts] um, I'm like, "Okay, how do I get on Fox Sketcher?" And he goes, "Beet everybody that's in your weight class." And there's like three guys on Fox Sketcher that are my weight class.

And at World Team Trials in 93, I beat everybody and make my first world team. Yeah.

Mark Kerr25:41

Yeah. For free.

Mark Kerr25:52

Yeah.

Mark Kerr26:49

You're like it was huge.

Like making the Olympic team. It it literally it's like the the so my first first world team 93 uh first freestyle n national championships 94 right and then I still compete in the goodwill games in '95 that's free swag bunch of free stuff

Mark Kerr27:10

Hu it's a huge deal USA

Yeah it's an experience that um it's just unique cuz I'm wrestling against guys that are like two time you know NCA champs three MNC champ world team members you world team medalists all the you're the best of the best of the best of the best

Mark Kerr27:30

Oh it's just it's you know again finally it's getting its due

But just as it you know I've said this before it's like

If we had everybody wrestle from 7th grade to 12th grade it'd be a new definition of what hard is

Like kids going oh this is really hard you know I have to study twice a day it's like hang on a second we're going to redefine that right 100%.

And it it's just a different narrative and it's one where where I tell like you'll get somebody go, "Oh, I only wrestle in high school." And I go, "Time out here. Let me just explain this." So, you signed up for something that was voluntary, right? You went to it every day. Even though it was going to be hard, you still went to it knowing that.

And then you finished every single year that year at high school. Don't ever say, "Oh, I only wrestled in high school." Because 99% of the other kids aren't doing that. They're not signing up for it.

Mark Kerr29:03

It's It's really, you know, part of what I had said to you the other day was that like I got addicted to taking somebody's will.

Yeah.

Like completely like understanding it like I didn't understand it completely when it was happening. Yeah. [snorts]

You know, like people go, "Why are you doing it?" I go, "Oh, it's I'm making money doing it." That wasn't it.

Mark Kerr29:30

You know, that was that was a byproduct of what I was doing, right? It's like unique to what it is. You know, it's like I can't imagine like uh you know, running a marathon and last mile chasing down somebody and just running past them right before the finish line. Like what that must feel like for that dude that led the whole day except for the last 200 yards

Of like how debilitating and like

It's it and again it's one of those things where fighting it's it's one of those things where you take another guy's will to win.

Yep. It's a completely different narrative. It's right.

It's like, oh [ __ ] you know, this is this is it's a big deal.

Mark Kerr32:02

Oh yeah.

And so Kurt and I wrestled in 93 Worlds and I beat him 90 uh world team trials in 93 and then uh freestyle national finals in '94 and I beat him and then world team trials that same year I beat him and then 95 uh is when he leveled the playing field. So he beat me in 95, beat me three times in 95 and then went on to win the gold medal in 96.

Mark Kerr32:28

It's you know what's crazy? So um so my mom passed away right after the Olympics that year uh September 3rd, 1996. And so um she she had colon cancer and and um she went to Spokane for Olympic trials and stuff like that. And then she had been around Kurt a lot. And so after Kurt won the gold medal, we tried and tried tried to get a hold of him. And my mom just wanted to, you know, just congratulate him. And so, um, we get a letter September 5th.

It arrives in 1996. So, my mom passed away September 3rd, 2 days after the letter. But the letter actually means more to my family. So, Kurt writes this letter. He says like, um, Mrs. her. Thank you for thinking me thinking of me at a time like this, you know. And then goes on to say, "At one point, I never thought I'd beat Mark. It was my biggest obstacle because you made Mark, you made me,

And I want to share a gold medal with you." Oh, like this day, I can barely get through the the letter without balling by the end of it. It's just one of those things where um

You know, it's just a character of who he was.

Mark Kerr33:38

You know, we reconnected a couple years ago and just same character. Yeah,

You know, anybody that's been around Kurt, he's just one of those like complete standup guys.

Mark Kerr33:47

Unbelievable.

Mark Kerr33:52

So after my mom passed away, I was back in Ohio. I still had a place in in Arizona and you know I literally laid on my brother's floor for a month and not knowing what to do. He's like, "Dude, get up." And once I got up, I'm like, "Okay, I got to do something." And that's when um a guy during the during uh when I was training for the Olympics, there was a guy that said, "Hey, if you don't make the Olympic team, I can get you into this fighting thing." And they're like, "Okay." You know, just kind of like part like, "Dude, I don't need to hear that now."

Mark Kerr34:25

None.

Mark Kerr34:26

None. And so I go back to Arizona and he says, "Okay, I'm going to get you these fights." He gets me my first fights in January of 1997 in S. Impo Brazil

Mark Kerr34:38

Nope. Zero.

Mark Kerr34:45

Totally? So he kept trying to tell me he goes you got to make him wrestle you. You just have to

Mark Kerr34:53

Just like like at first I'm like like once it gets to that moment when you're going to get in the ring you're like oh my god I'm so underprepared. I can't believe I'm doing this. Like it's like me thinking going I don't know how to fight. Yeah. I do not know how to fight. Right. Like completely.

And he kept try he kept trying to reassure me. He said listen just go out there and just we had this plan. Just control him. Control him. Take him down to the ground. Don't don't be, you know, don't have this big distance, you know, get real close. All these other little things. And I get I get in it. And the reactions were just like baked into me.

Mhm. It's one where it's like, okay, first guy take down, start punching him, kneing him in the face that a fight over.

Mark Kerr35:37

Totally. Absolutely making it up. Like my whole idea like when I got in there was like literally I just needed to do enough to make you quit.

Mark Kerr35:47

Right. So crazy.

Like like looking back on I'm like, "Oh man, this is this is nuts."

Mark Kerr35:54

This is crazy.

Mark Kerr35:58

A second fight I have to fight another fight that night.

Mark Kerr36:03

Old school. And so I fight another guy that night. I I went beat that guy.

Mark Kerr36:09

At those two? No. But the second guy that I fight that night is is called uh his name's Master Hawk. He's a Capoetto Brazilian fighter. And

Mark Kerr36:32

That too.

Mark Kerr36:48

It looks it literally like cuz that was the same thing. He came out of the corner. He did like a a whirling back kick. A whirl and I'm standing there. You could see it on film. I'm going like watching him just watching him do it again. I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to take you down now."

Mark Kerr37:05

So So I took him down and it was bare knuckle.

Mark Kerr37:08

So no gloves on. And I actually have this scar here where I I punched him and knocked three of his teeth out.

Mark Kerr37:30

No it didn't work we might have to develop something else so I ended I didn't know it at the time so I ended up inoculating the bone with the strap bacteria and so so that fight's over and then I fight the guy that everyone's there to see a name a guy named Fabio Gelle and so that fight was just brutal um headbutted him I fractured his orbital my hands are just all I mean it's nasty like I watched a clip of that a couple uh like three days ago.

It was even hard for me to watch. Now,

Mark Kerr38:04

Yeah. It's part that and it's compartment it's compartmentalizing everything. Yeah. And just this singularity of intention and focus of like um what I what I discovered is just like this ability to hyperfocus on something to be able to block everything else out because emotion and feelings and all that stuff came in afterward of like oh dude you're okay man.

Mark Kerr38:25

You know like during it it was like absolutely not man. And it was like this place that I didn't know I I I had hoped I had but I didn't know I had.

Mark Kerr39:13

Oh yeah.

Mark Kerr39:22

Yeah.

Mark Kerr39:35

It's that's a different level.

Mark Kerr39:37

Like it's just one where it's like, you know, the rules they have in place now. You know, I people go, "What do you think?" And I go, "Well, when I was doing it, you couldn't sell that to a housewife in Nebraska.

You could not. It was unpackaged.

Mark Kerr40:05

They are. Cuz it's just one where it's like you I mean, you can demonstrate your dominance over another human being without, you know, busting his nose, breaking his eyes out, and you know what I mean? So, I mean, that's the whole thing is just

They must had some rules, though, right? They probably had no eyeing. No, no biting was it. I mean, it was it was one of those where I think, you know, looking back on it, the they were making them up as they kind of went along.

Mark Kerr40:37

Yeah. Yeah. We'll stick to the the bare minimum, right?

Mark Kerr40:44

So, third fight I was just beat up. Like I had when you when you bare knuckle uh you you hit and these pop like bubble wrap your knuckles.

Mark Kerr41:04

Yeah. So all of these hemorrhaged and uh this I didn't know at the time was starting to fester. So I get done with that fight. I go to the doctors that they have there. They put a couple stitches in, it traps the bacteria in. I get up the next day. Um, I don't know this. I'm walking through, I can't walk with my hands down cuz my hands are still throbbing. Yeah. So, I'm walking through the lobby of the hotel with my hands above me and I get a tap on the shoulder.

It's this American doctor. He's like, "Hey, what happened?" He looks at it. He sees it's already starting a red streak

From the infection. He goes, "What are you doing right now?" I go, "I'm getting ready to fly out this evening." He goes, "We're going to a pharmacy." He goes, "I'm starting you on a spectrum of antibiotics, taking the stitches out right when you get to the states, you go straight to the hospital." And he goes, "Be insistent." And I'm like, "Like, okay?" Like, seriously? He goes, "Please just follow my advice." And I'm like, "Okay." So,

Mark Kerr41:59

A random guy. Um, I actually found out who the guy was years later. Um, the head of security for for Dwayne Johnson.

Mark Kerr42:08

The guy uh is from Atlanta and the doctor's from Atlanta. They know each other that doctors told Dwayne had a security that story.

Mark Kerr42:17

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Kerr42:19

All right. So, okay. So, one of those things where I just got that downloaded to me last year. I'm like, you're kidding me.

Mark Kerr42:30

So, I look at my bank account and I'm like, oh crap. And the UFC had seen the the tapes from Brazil and said, "Hey, we want to offer you a threeight deal uh for three tournaments." Um, UFC 145 15 it would have been 16.

Mark Kerr42:44

25 grand a fight.

Mark Kerr42:46

25 grand. Yeah,

Mark Kerr42:49

But here here's the here's the catch. You got to win.

Mark Kerr42:55

No show money.

Mark Kerr43:12

Yeah, you do. You do.

Mark Kerr43:17

I got to win." It factors in.

Mark Kerr43:55

Pretty hard to do

Mark Kerr44:17

Yeah.

Mark Kerr44:29

You have to have to. And that's like um like every like after like at some point in wrestling you you're seeking out the person that can bring you up a level, right?

Mark Kerr44:40

You know, the person that's your sparring partner, training partner that that every time that you go with them,

It's like on a So, um

So it's like uh I brought in this young kid uh Rico Rodriguez who ended up being an NC being a uh UFC heavyweight champ at some point. Yeah. And he he's 10 years 10 years younger than me.

Mark Kerr45:01

And um it was like [clears throat] one of those things where I said it'll take you a couple years before you're able to take me down. Right. And he's like, "Yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever." Well, it literally is like one of those things where it's like I would bite my leg off

Before I would let him take me down. And the [clears throat] whole idea behind it was he didn't get it. He didn't understand what I was doing. So like this intensity of like combat that we would go and then the second that I bring him to a different dojo and he goes against somebody else,

Mark Kerr45:30

Yeah.

Cuz he was destroying them.

Mark Kerr45:32

Going when you're finally able to take me down, you've reached a level where you can compete and do this at this level.

Mark Kerr45:39

You know, so it's one of those things where it's like always looking for somebody to make me better.

Mark Kerr45:44

Always.

So you get the UFC contract. What happens there? Um, I do UFC 1415 and then uh the Japanese see my Brazil fights, they see my UFC fights and they're like, "Hey, we want to bring you over to Japan. We want to put you as our marquee

For Pride."

For Pride.

Mark Kerr46:01

Uh, at this point I'm sober. Yes.

Mark Kerr46:03

Yep.

Mark Kerr46:05

So, I go to Tokyo. I signed a contract to fight Hoist Gracie, which the fight never happened.

Mark Kerr46:13

Incredible.

Mark Kerr46:20

I believe I believe at that point when I went over to Japan, I think they had gotten down to where they only had three or four boxing commissions that would allow the UFC Oh, yeah.

To pull permits, right?

Um Dana White hadn't taken over. The Fertitta family hadn't gotten involved. And so it was this relegated, didn't know if it was going to succeed or fail. And so going over to Japan, it's a it's a culture, right? Bushida, right? It's a warrior. It's a whole entire mentality and respect and understanding what a fighter is. And then going over there with the media push and everything they were doing to to promote me. It was it was incredible.

Mark Kerr46:59

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. photographers.

Mark Kerr47:04

Yeah.

Mark Kerr47:23

Oh, it's you get through customs and it's like all photographers and all you're being like ushered,

You know, and it's it's one of those where looking back on it, it's it's one where um

It can cause, you know, you to be a little delusional about yourself sometimes, you know. It's like cuz what's it? just don't read your headlines, you know, and stuff like that type thing.

Mark Kerr47:49

picture." I've chased people down in the It's funny you say that because cuz last year when all the movie stuff was going on. Uh so I was doing a bunch of different stuff and I a couple different times I've been in airport and guys, you know, come up and go, "Oh my god, I just saw your" and have this quick conversation and then walk away and I'm like, "A picture, bro?" Like I've gone and went, "Hey, man, you're going to take a picture." and and realizing that like that moment like like I've had an opportunity I was when I was younger to be around uh like I've been friends with Vin Diesel for like 25 years.

Yeah. Okay.

And so being around his movie premieres but I'm too cool you know like not and I'm like my god man it's like I was around so many different people that I should just say hey take a picture with me. Yeah.

You know and felt like I was too and so when somebody doesn't ask for a picture I'm like dude you taking a picture with me?

Mark Kerr49:15

Funny.

Mark Kerr49:20

Yeah.

Mark Kerr49:30

It's one of those where because we're we're like growing up here in the States, you're you have a totally different perception of what like the mob is or mafia, right? Organized crime. Uh over there, it's it's one of those where it's like almost like a gentleman's business.

Mark Kerr49:50

You know, like you have your rules and these are the rules. You play by them and if you don't and step out of line, here's what we're going to do. Um, it's just crazy because the like my I call him my handler, but the guy that helped uh was one of the founding guys for Dream Stage Entertainment was the name of the company that it turned into. Um, it's one where it's like he was well respected.

Mark Kerr50:15

Either respected or feared. Yeah.

You know, and either one of them I'm like, "Okay, the line."

Mark Kerr50:30

They don't It's one of those things where like as an American trying to understand it, it's baked in their culture.

Mark Kerr50:41

Yeah. Yeah.

So you're doing that.

Mark Kerr50:42

So um my first so 997 let's see 98 my first fights 99 I start taking because what I realized with the Japa with the Japanese um my availability was the most important thing to them. So if they said, "We want you to do this show, this show, this show, this show," that I would go, "Okay." Because I at the time I was trying to my availability and I was trying to create what a a professional mixed martial artist look like.

Nobody knew, right? Nobody knew. So um you know, show up dressed in a suit when everybody else is in tracksuits, you know, show up articulately, you know, interviewed this, that, and all these other things. I was trying to create a standard. And part of that standard was my availability. So I started cutting corners with training, started doing that and then started taking opioids like during before practice to get through a practice and then oh [ __ ] now I'm beat up even worse.

Mark Kerr52:19

So, I would tell people, I go, if I took an if I took a handful of, you know, uh um

Mark Kerr52:25

Percoetses at 9:00 at night, I'd be up till 4 in the morning

Mark Kerr52:39

Oh, I would have wished it from the beginning.

Mark Kerr52:55

Yeah.

Mark Kerr53:18

Terrible,

Mark Kerr53:22

I had sprained my MCL on I believe my right knee and that was like the first kind of spin into it. Um, and then from there it was one of those where it was like, you know, one of the thing like discovery it's like, oh well, I can take this and I can practice because I'm not I'm not a zombie sitting on the side, right?

And so it was that that first time that I get through practice and you know, even though I know my knees banged up, I can still get through training and I and then next day I'm like, well, I got through that and get through and then like in my mind I'm rationalizing like, well, I'm just going to use these into my knees better.

Mark Kerr53:58

Right. And then well [ __ ] the knee's better but now my ankle and now my elbow now I feel depressed right it's this whole cycle and as it spins into itself and then me wanting to have this availability for the Japanese I just said yes to everything.

Mark Kerr54:14

And then it got to a point where where I couldn't get enough of the pills and uh the pills were effective but not the effect that I wanted. Yeah. And so I started um I met a guy in California and he started going down to Mexico and shopping for whatever I needed in Mexico. I give him like a list of stuff.

Mark Kerr54:45

Yeah. A lot of it's just those like conversations you have like hey yeah you got injured. what were you using or what how did that you know and it's just this innocent conversation but they're probing without going hey can you get me some you know so

Mark Kerr55:03

Get morphine it was morphine new bane was one of the other ones you know volume and I mean what I had a list that and he get me needles he get me I mean literally I get a FedEx package and then I'd do a bank transfer just over to his account for whatever it is it didn't matter where I was in the states he would FedEx wherever I'd go, "Hey, you know, here's what you need. You go, okay, get it, bang, transfer it over." And it's just one where from that that whole thing just spun out and I lost complete control over it.

Like like anybody, it's like, you know, the false premise that I'm going to be able to control my drug addiction. I'm only going to use it on Tuesdays. You know, I'm only going to do it on Fridays or

And then it's one where it's like you I blur every line that actually meant something.

Mark Kerr55:46

This is 99 when it spun out really bad.

Mark Kerr55:51

In that in that time frame.

Mark Kerr55:53

So So in 99 I was uh at the end of 99 it was uh I think end of 99 or in the middle of it I was 11 and0.

Mark Kerr56:02

Number one ranked heavyweight mixed martial artist in the world. Right.

Mark Kerr56:08

You know over in Japan it was a little different because a lot of Europeans uh you Chansion who I lost to they still thought Enenoway was was a good fighter. Um you had just started getting like crowrop and Oh yeah that that whole crew started just coming over to because Japan they're paying money.

Mark Kerr56:28

They're paying real money.

Mark Kerr56:30

You know so it was one where it's like why would I fight here or in Europe when I can go over there and make 10 times the amount you know and so it was just that migration of it you know. It just turned into like one of those things where it's like didn't know what I was doing. thought I could diagnose myself and treat myself and I ended up overdosing.

I ended up trying to get off the morphine and I ended up getting a hold of methadone which is another it's the nastiest thing on the planet.

Mark Kerr57:21

I didn't know that uh methadone was this long acting like it didn't it like it reached its halfife like 12 14 16 hours into your

Mark Kerr57:34

Yeah. didn't understand that. And so I go, "Okay, I'm gonna stop injecting uh pain meds. I'm gonna switch to methadone." Not understanding the complexities of it. And so I took it thinking I would feel that immediate effect. I didn't feel it. So I took more, took more, took more, and it just piled up in my system. And and uh that night it was this whole ordeal where I was just out of control. Everybody around me was like, "Dude, you need to go to the hospital." I'm like, "F you.

I don't need to go.

Mark Kerr58:06

Everyone around me goes, "Dude, you're you're a junkie. You need to get help." And I'm like, "Okay." And then in my head, I'm like, "Okay, I'll just wean myself off it."

Mark Kerr58:25

There isn't.

Mark Kerr58:29

Exactly. Exactly. So, it ended up being this situation where I end up convincing everybody around me that I can do this myself. I can detox myself. And they're like, "Okay." You know, with so much suspicion of like, "We don't think so, but if you think so, we're in they're watching this just this huge just situation involved where

I'm out of control." They call a therapist. Therapist says, "Hey, you need to go to the hospital. I agree. Go to the hospital." And I remember the specifically get to the hospital and I convinced them to give me more drugs.

Mark Kerr59:05

Oh, total. Like I don't realize how dire the situation is. And

Mark Kerr59:12

So I This is what I hung my hat on. Well, I'm famous in Japan, luckily. Right. And so, um, I go I go to the the hospital and, uh, nobody checks on me all day. And my therapist comes back in the morning and I'm in the bathroom passed out, blue lips, shallow breathing. Um, she doesn't know how long I've been there. Body cold, heart respiration, everything. Barely registering. They bring me over to the main hospital.

Mark Kerr59:41

I have an audio audio track of like being on the gurnie.

Mark Kerr59:46

I don't have a visual. I couldn't open my eyes. And so they bring me over to the main hospital and it I hear a nurse whisper in in my ear. So I don't know what Narcan is. I have no idea. And so um she goes, "I'm going to give you something to wake you up." And so she hits the plunger and it was like getting hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat. It was that like instantly my eyes open, but I had no control over my body.

I couldn't I couldn't move my arms. I couldn't move my legs. And immediately I started throwing up uh this brown gross, you know, liquid. The nurse freaked out. She booked out of the room. She left the room. This is [ __ ] crazy.

Yeah. I remember just all this vomit was in my mouth and I and I couldn't breathe. I couldn't get a breath in. I couldn't roll over. I couldn't I had no physical control over my body. And I remember like everything just kind of went still and it was like all this machine beeping. I didn't hear none of that. And then it was like this and I still it so I hear Mark Mark. And it says it again, Mark. And he says, you need to fight for your life and I'll show you the way.

And it was like this whatever happened in that moment, you know, I was able to get my head to the side and and get the vomit out and then take the biggest breath I've ever taken in my life. It felt like I'd held my breath for like 10 minutes.

Mark Kerr1:01:18

She ran out of the room. Ran out of the room. And right after that, I cleared that. Uh doctors came in. Um I mean, every alarm on that machine was going off. What happens, what I didn't know is that like with that lack of respiration for the period of time, however long it was at the other part of the hospital, um it my blood turns acidotic. It's acidic. And so the doctors can't do anything. Your body needs to self-regulate. Yeah. Right.

And so the doctors are like there's nothing we can give him. He his body needs to reach its own little homeostasis and monitor him and then figure out what comes up and try to figure out how to treat it.

Mark Kerr1:02:04

Oh my god, it was it was going from shooting dope for six, seven months, right, to instantly being all your receptors wiped clean.

Mark Kerr1:02:27

And it throws your system in a [ __ ] into chaos. And so the doctors are like we'll monitor him. And so they monitor me in the hospital for 3 days till my body just kind of starts starts figuring out what's going on. The people around me go well you're not going back to the house. Yeah.

So, they put me on an airplane. They gave me a little duffel bag. Put me on an airplane submitted to New York City where I have a buddy that lives in the city and my friend's like I like I don't know what to do with you, bro. I couldn't. So, he lived on a two-story walk up. I would walk down walk half a block and have to come back cuz I was so out of breath.

Mark Kerr1:03:08

I couldn't understand what was going on.

Mark Kerr1:03:10

So, they're trying to find a a treatment center for me to go to.

Yep. And so they go, "We found one. It was in Arizona. It's called Sierra Tucson." And um so they fly me back into Phoenix and then I uh drive down to Sierra Tucant and I spend 28 days there.

Mark Kerr1:03:31

It was So at the time there was a film crew that was filming the documentary. They're the ones that put the cameras down and cuz I was friends with the producer.

Yeah. And and the and the producers like, "Bro, we don't give a flying [ __ ] about what we're doing film wise. We're trying to save your life, right?"

Mark Kerr1:03:51

No chance.

Mark Kerr1:03:54

No. No. That's how delusion I was. He's like, "Hey, we're going to come out and film you. You're the best in the world right now. We want to see this journey, you're on, and you're shooting." Yeah. Yeah. So when they realize that you're overdosing in the extent of the addiction, are they like, "How the [ __ ] did we not see this?"

So they suspected, but a lot of it's like for me is that front, right? Like put up, oh, I'm just not feeling good today. That's why I'm or this is or Yeah, I had to do

Mark Kerr1:04:49

So right before this all this overdose and all this other stuff um John the producer comes up and he's like like what's going on? And I'm like, like what we talked about earlier, the shame.

Mark Kerr1:05:07

Like at that point, I had told anybody.

Mark Kerr1:05:10

Dawn, my ex-wife, she knew what was going on.

Mark Kerr1:05:14

She didn't know the extent.

Mark Kerr1:05:19

[ __ ] hidden all over the [ __ ] all over the place. Like

And she she would go, "You're in the bathroom too long." And it would like, "Okay, I need to put my rig away. I need to do put the needles away. Hide them." And it was like this whole routine of like this. So John goes to me says, "Hey, what's going on?" And I'm like, I I I at that moment I I go, "Do you want me to let you in?" Basically, what's going on? So what he did, he took the release that I had signed and he tore up the release and it was like he needs this release to be able to publish or or

Mark Kerr1:05:57

Oppose anything of the content. And he goes, "That's in the garbage." He goes, "If you don't like what happens from this point going forward, we won't make the film."

Mark Kerr1:06:09

It ended up being and that documentary back then cost $500,000,

Mark Kerr1:06:13

Which is thinking about it cuz it was all digital film, which was so expensive 25 years ago,

Right? The cameras were these Sony like $15,000 digital cameras. And so he he tore it up and he said and I said okay. And it was such a relief.

Mark Kerr1:06:29

People listening to this don't understand like that first words out of my mouth of like

This is what I've been doing and I don't know how to stop. I don't know how to I don't know what I need to do.

Mark Kerr1:06:41

He was he was shocked and then he was like mission driven. He was like okay let's figure out how to get you help. And that was when I go, well, I know a doctor that can prescribe this stuff, methadone, and I can get off, you know, like that. That was my solution.

Continue to have control of it, right?

Mark Kerr1:07:09

One dose. Like I like the doctor that gave it to me, he didn't even he didn't even provide the like scope of it.

Mark Kerr1:07:37

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:07:42

Wow.

Mark Kerr1:08:05

Yeah,

Mark Kerr1:08:08

I mean, it's part of the reason why I think my mission, like your mission, right, is to is to is to have these conversations. Yeah.

Because I tell people, I go here here's what I do know. Like talking about addiction in public is like talking about masturbation.

Mark Kerr1:08:24

You just don't do it. You don't walk up and go, "Hey, by the way, Ken, yeah." You just don't. It's it's cuz it's it has that context to it, right?

Cuz it brings all this shame or this thing and it's like it's the biggest relief I've ever had my entire life was telling somebody that I'm need help.

Mark Kerr1:08:51

The withdrawals are I that's what was strange. Like I get to the treatment center and they go are you feeling any? And I'm like no at that point it had been like nine or 10 days since they hit me with the Narcan. And

Mark Kerr1:09:07

Oh no. It it persisted. It it was like halfway through treatment. Oh,

Like like I like they hit me with the Narcan in the hospital, fly me to New York cuz they don't know what to do with me. Fly back to Arizona.

Mark Kerr1:09:38

Oh my god, man. It was towards the end of that day.

Mark Kerr1:09:42

And it was one where it's like you are waking up to a whole new reality.

Mark Kerr1:09:52

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:09:56

Oh, it was it was depressed, sick, no energy, couldn't figure out like what the [ __ ] like

Like these moments of like you know, and again it's like anybody those moments are just that they're moments Right. And like some like realizing uh when I stopped drinking, right? Like that was a neck scourge that I had to face is the idea of like um I would go well I didn't have problem with alcohol.

Mark Kerr1:10:21

I have problem with opiates.

Mark Kerr1:10:22

It's like no you're trying to cover [ __ ] up, bro.

Mark Kerr1:10:26

Right.

You you're trying to fill a hole. And so um

I would count seconds, man. I would go I just need to make it to the next second. The next second.

The next second. Because all of a sudden it's like, "Okay, a minute's down." Like it was that like I was just like, "Oh my god, man. Just I need to get to the next."

Mark Kerr1:10:50

Yeah. I mean, it's I could run through walls, right? It's just one of those things where it's like I'd run into a wall. I couldn't run through.

Mark Kerr1:11:29

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:11:46

Think about it now. So the the crazy part about that I I overdose, go through treatment, get out, have to make basically reparations for the Japanese cuz I had missed an event. I said, hey, I need to get surgery on my elbow. Yeah.

Which I like back then telling them, hey, I have to go to treatment for drug addiction would be like

Mark Kerr1:12:11

Exactly. So I get that. And they're like, okay, we're going to let you into this Grand Prix. And that was kind of the one where I'm like, "Okay, so I had gotten to the point where I started training again, you know, all of this, and I I started feeling like myself,

You know, like, oh my gosh, like this, you know, and I go and do uh the beginning of the Grand Prix, which was uh one bout in January, and then the finals of the Grand Prix, which was May 1st, 2000."

Mark Kerr1:12:38

And that's one where I was like heavily favored to win, didn't win. That's the basis of the movie and the documentary. And then, you know, after that do a couple more fights and then at some point it's just, you know, physically I I couldn't do it.

You know, it's just crazy thinking about where where at all of a sudden I couldn't compartmentalize just the physicality, the level of brutality I had to get to to do the sport to inflict that much pain on another human being just wasn't not that it was enjoyable at the time,

But I could I tolerable.

Mark Kerr1:13:16

So I start drinking alcohol.

Mark Kerr1:13:18

And that was that slow like alcohol is so insidious because it for for me like when you're a drug addict for me it's like it's it's your timeline is compacted. Like I went off the rails relatively quick. You did.

And so alcohol is one of those slow insidious things where it's like you know it took me this is what's crazy. It took me another 15 years.

Mark Kerr1:14:08

Wow.

Mark Kerr1:14:11

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:14:37

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:14:44

So it at first it's social you know then it's then it goes to just almost page by page out of the big book it goes like okay I only drink on Fridays. Oh I only drink on Saturdays I only drink. And then I got to a point where it was [snorts] like, you know, the the I kept lowering my standards, right? Yeah. Like lowering my standards, lowering my standards, lowering my standards, lowering my standards. And then to the point where um it was every day I would have panic attacks if I got to the house and I didn't have like three big 1.5 millit things of wine, you know, and or whatever.

Mark Kerr1:15:21

Huge. Huge. I weighed 300 305 lb.

Mark Kerr1:15:28

Uh I'm still big. I'm 250 lbs.

Mark Kerr1:15:36

Like and and again this is one where it's like I kept just lowering my standards, convincing myself it was okay, right?

And there's nothing in there that was okay. There's there's you know for me it's that spiral of like how pivotal you know working out or how pivotal that component is to every aspect of my life you know cuz it's a building block what's built me as a human being is being able to do stuff that's hard

And get to the other side of it right and again it's one of those transitions of like if you take that away and I forget that that's built into me

Like that's what I thrive on I thrive on that challenge. I thrive on that success of doing something that was hard and getting to the other side.

Mark Kerr1:16:28

No. No. I I had my last professional fight like 2007 8 n somewhere.

Okay. So, from like 200 2007 or eight or nine. You're drinking and you're fighting. I'm I'm no interest in training, but still the guy's going, "Hey, listen. We'll give you 40 grand to come and fight." And I was like, "Okay." You know, showing up

Mark Kerr1:16:51

It's terrible.

Mark Kerr1:16:53

Terrible. It's one of those one of those uh like little footnote. It's not a footnote because it's part of my career, but it's one of those where it's like no business being in the ring, you know, just having no um self-esteem, no self-worth, no understanding of like of besides the point of of embarrassing myself, just the point of like what am I doing?

Mark Kerr1:17:18

Like rudderless. And then I get done um fighting and I end up tearing like a a packed miner and all this and friend of mine says to just you know he was a manager of a car dealership in Arizona. He's like hey just come sell cars when the whole world economy fell apart you know 070809 and no jobs.

Mark Kerr1:17:40

So he goes come you can at least you can at least put food on the table for your family right. I'm like okay. So I so I went and worked at a place called Wright Toyota and I was there for four years and and then things start I started again the addiction started spiraling and like you start jumping dealership to dealership cuz you're like you're late not showing up not doing your work all this and then finally it was like one of those miracles of like I get hired at a dealership where longer story but a friend of mine they're opening dealerships up in Arizona goes here's what I'll pay you a month goes I'll give you five grand a month you don't have show up for work.

I'm like, "Oh." Thinking that's a good idea, it's not.

It's not. It just continues to spiral down into nowhere. And then finally, it was like one of those things where a convergence of things happened. I get contacted by Dwayne in 2019 as agent and and that's where I got sober in um in the fall of 2018.

How did you do it?

Mark Kerr1:18:40

So, like I was saying earlier, my my son, who was 14 at the time, knows that my mother passed away September 3rd, 1996. So, it was September 3rd, 2018. And he says, "I know today's day where you feel like," he doesn't didn't say feel. He said, "You have to drink cuz you're sad cuz your mom passed away. Would you stop tomorrow?" And it's like one of those things where I'm like I I thought at the time honestly I was just giving him another empty promise of like yeah I'll I'll stop for whatever reason that was that was enough.

Mark Kerr1:19:38

It was disappointment.

Mark Kerr1:19:40

Yeah. Cuz it's just one where it doesn't make any sense.

Mark Kerr1:19:44

It doesn't even make sense that that day

Is the day.

Mark Kerr1:19:52

Stopped drinking.

Mark Kerr1:19:54

I did. Yeah. Yeah. And I still participate in AA.

Mark Kerr1:20:02

Because it's

Mark Kerr1:20:30

Same thing.

Mark Kerr1:20:41

So, the documentary came out um which we didn't we skipped over it, which is 2002.

Mark Kerr1:20:50

They covered the whole thing.

Mark Kerr1:20:56

Yeah. And it's crazy cuz it's just like thinking back on it, they were trying to make a film of something completely different.

Mark Kerr1:21:03

Completely different. And all this showed up. And that's why it's almost one of those things where when I look at it I go um you know there's you know I I always say this I go we call it God because it's simpler to understand but there's something much bigger than that right it's like it's God right universal consciousness whatever you want to call somebody was orchestrating this well because it just it's too many convergences of things that are so

It's not coincidental it's just the way things were supposed to happen you know you know so in 2019 I It's like July 2019 and I get a call from William Morris.

Mark Kerr1:21:42

And William Morris is it's this guy Brad Slater. And I'm like I'm like I get the message and I'm like it's his secretary like hi this is such and such you know. I'm like listening to it. I'm like okay. Yeah. I like hang it up. I look up the number. I'm like oh [ __ ] that's to their website you know. I'm like okay. Okay. And I call it back and here's again again crazy. Brad and I have this conversation and we start it and he goes, "You're not going to remember this." And I'm like, "Okay." And he goes, "Do you remember sitting down in I think it was 2000 at Cheesecake Factory near Beverly Hills Mall with a guy that worked at William Morris." And I'm like, "Not really." And he goes, "Well, it was me."

He goes, "I just start." He goes, "I just started." He graduated from the University of Arizona.

Mark Kerr1:22:40

He had just started at William Morrison Endeavor.

Um, working in the mail room.

I had a friend that was trying to help me get like a hold in Hollywood, right?

Mark Kerr1:22:50

And so he's like, "Hey, I know this guy who works at William Morris." He doesn't tell me he works in the mail room,

Right? And so very Hollywood, by the way. it is. So, I have lunch with Brad Slater when he's working in the mail room at William Morris. And so, he says to me, he goes, "I don't know what I can do for you. I work in the mail room, uh, but one day I'll be able to help you." So, fast forward to 2019, he's reminding me of this meeting and he said, "Do you remember what I said to you?" And I go, "No." He goes, "I told you one day I'd be able to help you." He goes, "Today's your day."

Mark Kerr1:23:47

Make the effort to

Mark Kerr1:24:03

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:24:09

But it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't take much either.

It doesn't. It

Mark Kerr1:24:15

So I responded I had this conversation and he just asked me he said, "Uh, do you know who has your rights?" And I'm like, "No." So, so the original brides were sold uh back in 2006. Like there was a script there was a script that was written uh that was sold and I didn't understand all this at the time and and I always say like I was a grown ass adult at the time.

Mark Kerr1:24:37

So if I signed a contract and I didn't understand it, I should have got somebody that understood it. Right.

Mark Kerr1:24:45

So it was optioned to the filmmakers.

Okay. the filmmakers had they optioned it to somebody in uh Los Angeles. Yeah.

And that person in Los Angeles ended up being associated with JeanClaude Vanam and so his production or surrogate company bought the rights.

Mark Kerr1:25:07

So the launch, you know, I have no idea.

I have no idea. I know I was paid I think

Uh 17,000 bucks or something. And again, it's one looking back on it going that's not very much. But anyways, um so so what happens? Uh Brad starts doing the homework and figures out that there's this guy that uh he's a retired Israelian tank commander in his 70s that buys all these, you know, scripts and accumulates them. And his name

Mark Kerr1:25:41

Oh, it's crazy. Like it's being when it's being told to me, I'm like same thing. I'm like, "What?" Like, so, so this guy's I know his first name, Musha.

Mark Kerr1:25:52

Um Brad's like, you know, calls me back like six weeks later and he's like, "We got them." I'm like, "So, Dwayne's production company, seven bucks, bought the rights."

Mark Kerr1:26:04

So, it's usually a percentage of what the production budget's going to be. Usually, what I was told, it's usually 10% of what the production budget's going to be.

What was your production budget?

Mark Kerr1:26:18

Oh, he probably paid a couple hundred thousand for and that's it. And sat on it for, you know, 13 14 years.

Mark Kerr1:26:28

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:26:31

Then uh I then Brad says, "Day's going to call you." I'm like, "Okay." So So uh so he he calls me. We have this conversation. He's like, "Hey, here's what's going to happen. We're going to move forward. we're going to do this, this, this, and this. He goes, I'm going to make the announcement. Madison Square Garden, um, UFC 300, you know, BMF belt that was on there.

He goes and make the announcement.

Mark Kerr1:26:56

Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, so I'm like, okay. He goes, you don't have to do anything. Just, you know, stand tight. So, he makes that announcement and then pandemic hits.

It was just such a cluster [ __ ] after that. I mean, it was like pandemic hits and then right after that writer strike, screen actor skill, all of that.

And so, I had written it off, like completely just written it off. I said, you know what? I have to live my life regardless, right? If it happens, great. It's like icing on the cake, right? I'm trying to get my life together. I'm coming out of years and years and years of addiction. You know, I'm trying to find my compass, right? Trying to find what direction I need to go. I get married, right? So, my wife is like, "You need to call." For a year, she's like, "You need to call." I'm like, what am I going to call them and go, hey, you going to make it yet?

You going to make it yet? Exactly. It's going. So,

Mark Kerr1:27:47

They will not forget. Right. And so, uh, so it's like October, the end of October 2023, and my wife had said it like either that day or the day before, you need to call. And for whatever reason, I'm like, okay, yeah, I need to call. So, I call Brad's office and Brad's like, Dad, your ears must be ringing. I he go he literally says to me he goes I can't tell you and I'm like okay hang on a second you can't he goes it needs to come from Dwayne so I'm either thinking one of two things either this is never going to get made right or we're moving forward with it and he goes Dwayne will call you and it was like a Thursday and um he texts me the next day hey you know I'll reach out to you over the weekend and uh it's like late on Sunday and he ends up reaching out and we spend like an hour and a half

On the phone and he's just like uh you know, this all started coming together. Benny Safdie came available, said he would direct it and write it. And then I got Emily on board and we got this really good producer Dave Copelan and this really good cinematographer and and and I'm like so like behind the scenes like he's got 300 people working finding all of this and he's like listen um I'm going to make the announcement next week. He goes, "Once this leaves, it's like a bullet train, you know, there's no pulling it back."

I'm like, I'm like, "Okay." You know, right? Not understanding like what he's saying cuz I don't have an experience that's even close to this.

And so it's like November, we talk a couple times in November and then he makes the announcement and here's what he says to me. He goes, [clears throat]

"We're going to make a worldwide announcement that we're doing this." Not like, "Hey, I'm going to post it on Instagram." It's like worldwide. I remember this specifically in my head going, "Yeah, he has that kind of influence." And so it goes from that to that and then I start talking to Emily and then uh I at the beginning of 2024 I start talking to Benny and um they're like, "Hey, the production starts contacting me, hey, do you have any programs? Do you have any pictures?

Do you have any this?" So I send like I don't know, probably like five boxes Yeah. of stuff that I have up to Vancouver where the production was and they wanted to use make it as authentic for that time frame as they could. Like all my clothes that I wore at the time were reproduced. They were reproduced off of screen grabs from the documentary. So like to the detail where the ring I wore this silly pinky turquoise ring. They even made that the necklace I wore at the time.

The watch. Exact same watch.

Mark Kerr1:30:25

They contacted Seikko. I bought this kinetic, you know. I'm like, I'm not going to be pretentious if I relax. I'm not going to do that. So, I buy this kinetic where you walked and it wound it.

They It was cracks, glass, all that. They had it totally reproduced.

Mark Kerr1:30:39

Seiko did the whole thing. These Nautica yellow sweatshirts, like these fuzzy sweatshirts. Nautica reproduced them. You know, they

Crazy like the detail like going when I went up to Vancouver for production. So Dave Copeland, the producer, had me up there. He's like, "Hey, we want to just have you walk through this and and fill in any gaps that some of the staff might have like for wearers, production, costume, all these different things." So it's like going in a time capsule, like walking into a room and seeing like a wall full of screen grabs of me, my house, everything I lived. Isn't it crazy how like involved this is?

Like he was right.

Mark Kerr1:31:16

Bullet train. Like seriously, Dave Dave Copeland's behind me and he can feel me like just looking at it and like this like shock and he remember him just kept going, "Are you okay?" Like it just whispered into my ear like, "Are you okay? If you need to take a break, we can take a break."

Mark Kerr1:32:04

Yeah.

Like I kept trying to convince myself of like why? Like why do they have any interest in this? Why? I mean why like I don't deserve like they're making a movie. Why? you know, understanding like watching it and then talking to people that have seen it and the context and the connection that they feel with it and the openness of it and then the human condition of it and all these different things that people connect with outside of, you know, just a a cinematic movie. It's like this connection they feel and and every single person that was on any of the production side of it had this respect and reverence for what they were doing.

And then when I was there, it was just this incredible like they were just so thankful that that like I I was sent the stuff and they were able to reproduce it and asking how they did and you know all it was this very cathartic like almost like therapeutic process to walk through all of that cuz at the time you know in Arizona I bought my first house. Um what Benny ended up doing was he like normally on a move set they're they're rolling walls.

Yeah. So he built a hard set. He built four rooms of my house that I bought.

Mark Kerr1:33:18

Crazy.

Mark Kerr1:33:20

So he So my office, my master bedroom, my living room, and my kitchen were rebuilt.

Mark Kerr1:33:29

He had to explain like the reason why this room was built out cuz we need the camera angle to be way out here cuz normally there'd be a wall here. And he goes, "But is the interior." I'm like, "Oh my god." I'm like, Benny, like you're kidding me. And I'll explain one of the reasons why he did it. So the the main scene at the end there there's a really intense scene between my ex-wife and myself and where there's a gun involved in us other stuff and and um so it's in the master bedroom part and um so what Benny did is he buried all the lights and all the cameras.

So when you're in that room, you didn't see any lights or cameras. So when Dwayne and Emily got in that room, it was just them.

And then when I was watching it, I didn't understand why I felt like a voyer.

Mark Kerr1:34:19

Like they were my neighbors with a big glass window and I was sitting there watching them and felt like I was like, you like because it made you feel uncomfortable. and he's explaining all this, but it was like they let him

Like A24 just gave him the money, let him make a movie. There wasn't like overlords hanging over and it was incredible because I would joke with Banny. I go, "Does they know who you are and they gave you $37 million to make such a movie. They just left you alone." He goes, "I know. Can you believe it?"

Mark Kerr1:34:48

So with Emily, if she was really involved, it I was more involved with Benny um and writing some of the stuff because he just needed to capture context, emotional context.

Mark Kerr1:35:07

Um but I know that that Emily spent quite a bit of time talking with Dawn and a ton of

Mark Kerr1:35:15

She Yeah. And so there's there's a scene towards the end where the like Dawn and I are feuding and and I always had a handgun um a Glock um on my nightstand and Dawn had reached for the Glock and put it she doesn't know a Glock doesn't have safety on it. She doesn't know any of that

And I had her finger on the trigger guard and and put the gun to her head and and I grabbed the gun out of her hand and stuff and and so that's the like the intensity of all that. Like Dawn was like, "Well, it didn't really hap." And I go, "It happened." Like whether it happened exactly like that, the context of how it happened, that's how it happened.

Mark Kerr1:35:55

Yeah. I mean, I cut my interactions with her cuz it's just one of those where we still have this toxicity with each other, but but as far as cordial, as far as going through the film process, the premieres and stuff like that, you know, it was very cordial.

Mark Kerr1:36:30

You know part of the healing process first off is that make a huge amend. Yeah. You know, that was the first thing that I had to do is like seeing it, watching it and saying, you know, saying not sorry, but I was completely wrong. You know, how how hard I was on her and how hard I was on everybody around me um through that process and and how selfish I was for for doing the things that I did.

Um

I think that allowed her to have a better experience through it. You know, as far as like disagreements, you know, we I talked to her. I said, "You know what? you're not gonna like the whole thing. It's just an impossibility. Yeah. Right.

Because you the you know it's like that I was at a place where I've taken ownership of it. And then so I think through the film process what I had hoped for her is that she would take ownership for whatever she saw her part was. Yeah.

Right. And so um you know at the end of it I I used you know what I've said before is that you know she was just a little girl that needed to be loved and I didn't know how to love her.

Mark Kerr1:39:17

Yeah.

If that makes sense. No, it it it does cuz I I don't think people, you know, I I literally tell people go, "Oh, how's Rock?" I go, "Well, if you want to root for one person on the planet, he'd be a person you'd root for."

Mark Kerr1:39:29

Cuz he just genuinely, and this is my experience with him, he genuinely cares. Yeah.

And he cares enough to know that one taking a minute out of his day to leave a voice message to you, it means [clears throat] this incredible thing. Cuz I still have voice messages from him. Yeah.

Right. Voice text. Right. that I save because it's one where I'm like, you know what, this is just like because I smile when I listen to it.

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:40:00

We did. We spent uh spent a lot of time initially talking, right? And then it was from talking to Zooms and then from Zooms it was, you know, where we spent time in Vancouver together and then um time for pre-production and then uh during the filming it was like a fight week. Um and then going through all the premieres and everything. I mean he he he read my induction speech for the Hall of Fame, UC Hall of Fame.

You know, Emily showed up for that. Dave Copeland showed up for that. Jay Glazer showed up for that. It was really, you know, like incredible.

Mark Kerr1:40:46

Off the charts, man.

Mark Kerr1:40:53

So this is this is what's this is what's crazy and it's it's um so back in 2006, like I was saying, I I had sold those rights. I wasn't entitled to anything,

Mark Kerr1:41:02

You know, but part of what um DJ made sure of that I participated in some of the some of the back end of the the movie.

Mark Kerr1:41:10

And so it's in perpetuity. So the the that'll be with me.

Mark Kerr1:41:18

Yeah. And it's just one where it's just like it's it's mailbox money. It's stuff where it's like it shows up. I'm like, "Oh, this is

This is really,

You know, cuz at that point he he doesn't owe me anything,

Right?" you know, and and it's just crazy because I I went through the whole entire process and it was never um it was never a hand out, never a give me. It was like, how can I help? I'm going to help make this the best movie I possibly can. You know, not asking for anything or not expecting anything. And and again, it's like one of those things where at the end of it, him saying, you know, to me like, "How can I help? What are you involved in?

What can I do for you?" You know, and that's just the type of person he is, you know? And uh I was just in New York. I'm I talked to Benny. Uh probably not probably. I talked to him more than anybody. Yeah.

Uh him and I talked to Dave Copelan, the producer.

Mark Kerr1:42:07

Benny Saft [snorts] is the director and writer.

Mark Kerr1:42:12

Yep.

Mark Kerr1:42:32

Yeah. I mean part of it unfortunately when I was going through everything you know I would occasionally read online like is he alive? Like he'd get people going I don't know if he's alive or dead.

Yeah. You know, so this has been one of these like resurrections and and feeling like it's it's like why like well to to to share this experience and this experience allows other people

Mark Kerr1:42:58

To share their experience so they're not buried in the shame and guilt and all the other [ __ ] that comes with addiction.

Um and to be able to affect, you know, the next generation going, "Hey, listen. Here's what alpha really is, bro."

Yeah, that's a good point. Because then because just like through the process of everything that's gone on culturally, all this stuff, I think a lot of times, you know, like like guys have kind of lost the identity of what it is to be a guy.

Mark Kerr1:43:25

For sure.

Cuz everyone's told you what you are as a guy and it's like no, no, no, no, no,

No. That's your own definition, but you can have guidelines, right, of like what it is.

So, you know, part of going through the movie and process and all that, you know, part of where I got a chip on my shoulder is everyone telling me what I should have got out of it. You know, I I've recognized that going, "God, I can't believe why I'm irritated. Why you and going, you're telling me I should have got this?" I go, "Nobody on the planet understands what this experience is except me."

Like, like I look at it like I'm getting exactly what I need from it, right? And so, it's given me opportunities to have some brand ambassadorships, which are important to me about wellness and about health and about personal responsibility. Um, not leaving it up to nobody else is going to solve your problems.

Mark Kerr1:44:59

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:45:10

Um

Mark Kerr1:45:15

Yeah. Dwayne Johnson and and this is like Vin Diesel. Yeah. Right.

Mark Kerr1:45:20

Another one where it's just like I know and again in my in the ecosystem of things I've done, I've never asked anything of anybody around me.

Mark Kerr1:45:28

It's just one of those things where you know

Mark Kerr1:45:31

If it's Exactly. And if it's important to me, they'll make it important to them.

Mark Kerr1:45:40

It's the currency of like how rich is your life, man. I have great friendships.

Mark Kerr1:45:45

You know, and that that's the important part for me because it's taken me a minute to clean up everything cuz it's just one where it's like

Going, "Oh man, you know, I woke up to just a life that I didn't recognize." Yeah. and and you know the opportunity to to have a podcast, the opportunity to work on a book, you know, to do, you know, to be forward- facing for these companies that have um your personal like giving you the ability to look at your health in a different context.

Mark Kerr1:46:16

Right. No, I love it. Um, and so part of that mission is to pass it on to the next generation, have the next generation move forward,

You know, and um,

You know, I I said it myself. I said, you know, for the first time in my life, I know exactly where I'm supposed to be, and it's right here.

Mark Kerr1:47:33

Yeah. Exactly. And it's that, you know, it's for me it's that small incremental building block, right? Like most people think in terms of this

And it's actually in terms of this. That's right.

Like I would always tell people, I go, you know what? Every day I went in and practiced, I just wanted to get that much better because that over time is compounded.

That's right. Like I didn't get it until I put it in context for myself going, "Okay, I just need to get this much better." And then a year of every day that much better, man, I'm this much better at the end of the year, right? And it's just moving that needle because nothing happened immediate. I mean, that's the part about where I'm like, I want my life to be better. It's like, well [ __ ] I spent the last 20 years [ __ ] it up,

Right? It's taking a minute to straighten it out, you know? It's like same thing somebody's health drugs that are the all you need to do is just that much.

Mark Kerr1:49:15

This is like one [clears throat] of these um amazing experiences to be able to actually engage with people about real topics.

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:49:25

Cuz we can sit and talk about fluff and stuff and all that, but it's like, you know, the human conditions what interests me the most.

Mark Kerr1:49:49

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:49:59

No.

Mark Kerr1:50:10

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:51:16

I don't know why. I just can't. But part of it too is like I was trying to explain like my friend in New York City was like where you going right out you know and then I started explaining like you don't understand like like I know how hard running is for me right like it's like it's like like a 5 minute and 39 second mile right

Mark Kerr1:51:37

Yeah like you don't understand what that is like I can break down scientifically for you and you still won't understand what that is that is like blistering ing for that age. It's blistering,

You know? It's like one of those things where I'm going and he's doing it for a lot of miles, right? Like not just like he's like, "Oh, run to the end of the block." It's like, "No, no, no, no, no." So, part of that's the same thing. I I take the same kind of pride in in like dude, it's a capacity that I had capacities in other things. That was one thing where I'm like always an envy of.

Mark Kerr1:52:28

Yeah.

Mark Kerr1:53:19

But