The Pastor Who Sold Crack and Shot Heroin

Lyle Phillips1:15

Bro, I still have to watch that show because so many people have referenced that to ask me, is that how church is? And I'm thinking it's not, but maybe there are a few things in there that they pulled from actual church life.

Lyle Phillips1:31

So, I grew up in Kentucky. West Kentucky to be exact. Um, I would consider my hometown to be Sacramento, Kentucky, which of course no one knows anything about.

Lyle Phillips1:43

Population 400, about 2 hours from Louisville.

Okay. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:49

Completely farming community.

Okay. So they would call it a bedroom community, meaning no one actually works there that lives there.

They just sleep there. Then they would go out of town unless they were farmers. So a lot of my friends that I grew up with are now farmers. And so they will farm uh now a lot of hemp. Yep.

Lyle Phillips2:10

And they'll farm corn, soybeans, tobacco a little bit, and chickens. So most of my friends that I grew up with are now farming that way or they're coal miners. coal miners, right?

Coal miners. Yeah, there's a lot of coal in Kentucky. So, that was the economy for a lot of people that I lived around. And so, I grew up around uh, you know, I say this respectfully because they're my homies. A lot of rednecks, you know, a lot of rednecks, bro. And so, I was around the farming community, but I myself never farmed cuz I grew up playing basketball. So, I didn't want any part of that. I was like, nah, I'm good. I'm going to play sports.

But, uh, that's where I grew up in West Kentucky.

Lyle Phillips2:54

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Completely black. Yeah. And it's very hazardous to your health. You know, a lot of those guys die young, but it pays so well.

Lyle Phillips3:02

Oh, yeah. For a Kentucky kid, you know, you can be 20 years old making six figures.

Lyle Phillips3:08

That's abnormal in in Kentucky cuz the economy, bro, for those small communities and there's not a lot of opportunity.

Lyle Phillips3:22

Oh yeah. I mean I had a number of friends that were coal miners young and then my dad he was always bocational. So he worked a job and pastored a church. Okay.

And so one of the things that he did for work was he sold insurance to coal mining companies.

Lyle Phillips3:37

So he would go down in there and Yeah. He told me it's very very intense. It wouldn't be something I'd want to do. But

Lyle Phillips3:50

He he did very well as an insurance agent.

Sure.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips4:04

Hated every bit of it.

Every time.

Every time.

Lyle Phillips4:08

Yeah. I hated going to church.

Lyle Phillips4:40

Jesus.

Lyle Phillips4:41

That's crazy.

Lyle Phillips4:43

Did he serve you when you went up?

No.

Lyle Phillips4:54

But

My church wasn't boring. That's one thing I will say. So, I grew up in a Pentecostal church and in the backwoods country cornfields of Kentucky, we're like a step below snake handlers. You know what I'm saying? Like I never saw any snakes as a kid, but like I grew up in a holiness Pentecostal church, which is where you see uh I don't want to call them weird, but they do stick out. They're unusual. So like the women with the super long hair and the super long dresses and then men cannot have beards.

A lot of cultures, they wear long sleeves. They can't wear shorts.

So it's like very controlled. They call it uh standards, okay,

Is what they call it. So you got to live according to these standards. So, it shows up in your dress code as well as what you do for fun. You cannot go to the movie theater. You cannot go to the shopping malls. Like, it's it's very strict.

Lyle Phillips5:47

Yeah, like Amish.

Lyle Phillips5:48

Yeah. It's got some real similarities to that. Yeah. So, that's my parents were were became Christians in a church like that. Okay.

So, they really didn't know anything other than that. they they get saved, become Christians, and they start going to one of those churches.

So, my parents, you know, they were on the brink of divorce when they got saved. It wasn't going great. They started going to church, and then all of a sudden, they're just on fire for Jesus in this really intense Holiness Pentecostal church. I mean, bro, I used to see pastors run the pews. You ever heard of that? No.

Like, they would run the tops of

Lyle Phillips6:23

With a microphone while preaching.

Oh my god. talking about you better get saved or you going to go to hell. I mean they would always like preach like hellfire and brimstone.

Lyle Phillips6:45

No, there's none of that.

Lyle Phillips6:47

You can get baptized but that's up to your discretion with the permission of your parents.

So you can get baptized whenever you want. I got baptized because my cousin got baptized. Kind of the same for you going for communion, bro. Exactly.

I had a cousin, shout out Corey. He was like, "Hey, I'm getting baptized." I was like, "Well, mom, I want to get baptized." I didn't know what it meant. I didn't know why. Were your parents happy?

Lyle Phillips7:07

Okay.

They were happy cuz they were like, "Are boys getting baptized?" So, of course, they allow me to do it. But once I really got saved as I got older, I got rebaptized because I felt I needed to cuz I didn't do it for the right reasons as a child. We would get in trouble if we talked, if we did anything that was interruptive. Like I remember my dad would put his arm around my mom and I'm the oldest of four boys. So I would sit closest to her and he would take his finger.

My dad's very strong and thump the top of my head like if I did anything and bro it would hurt so bad like and then uh when it was time for like the altar call at the end. So for a Catholic coming up and receiving communion,

Like for a Pentecostal, we didn't really do communion, which just sad, but true. And um so we would come up at the end for altar calls. And so there would always be an invitation from the preacher after his sermon, like, "Hey, if you're essentially afraid of going to hell, get up here and get saved."

Lyle Phillips8:06

Kind of the same every time. Yeah. And then you would come up and then people would surround you and then they would pray for you and lay their hands on you and shout prayers basically.

Lyle Phillips8:16

Yeah. I mean, bro, it was very intense. And so, as a kid, like you would learn, I better just start crying whether I feel anything or not because then that will get me through this experience quicker.

Okay. Wow. So, I know I'm kind of like dogging on the Holiness Pentecost, but I don't mean to because I'm actually grateful for that because even though I didn't like going to church,

It did install a fear of God in my heart. Like, I knew God was real. I knew God was not to be played with. And I knew that he loved me.

Lyle Phillips8:49

But I but I had no interest in serving him.

Lyle Phillips8:55

Oh, very wild, bro. So I mean like I was exposed to a lot very early and had to grow up quickly. So a part of my story and I was just thinking I don't know if I've even shared this really publicly much but I'm comfortable doing it

Is like I was sexually abused for the first time in that church by an older Sunday school teacher who was a female.

Lyle Phillips9:18

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips9:20

Yeah. Terrible. Terrible.

Lyle Phillips9:23

Um maybe six. Damn.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips9:28

They didn't know

Lyle Phillips9:30

They know now.

Lyle Phillips9:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not sharing it now for the first time, but they know. And that was the first time that I ever had like a really intense experience, I think, in church. But I didn't know I I didn't really know how to, you know, I didn't just know how to think about that.

Lyle Phillips9:49

So, I just remember as a kid thinking, I don't really want to go here.

Lyle Phillips10:04

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips10:16

No.

Lyle Phillips10:19

Yeah. Extremely. Extremely.

Lyle Phillips10:26

Yeah,

Lyle Phillips10:28

Yeah, very some of my earliest memories. And the neighborhood that we lived in at the time uh was quite impoverished

And so this is not exactly in the farming community that I was mentioning a moment ago. This is uh a city close by that I was born in, a little bit larger than that small town. Uh but the part of that town that I was living in at the time was pretty impoverished and so a lot of my friends were just in a lot of trouble. Yeah. All the time even from a very young age. So where I went to preschool and um elementary school was like a dangerous part of that small town.

In fact, and I someone will have to fact check me on this today, but um it used to be the police force in that area was the third highest paid in the state despite the fact that it was so small because they were kept so busy because there was just a ton of crime there.

Lyle Phillips11:24

Drugs, cocaine, meth,

Crack. You know, I grew up in the I'm an 80s baby, so crack was still a pretty big deal when I was a kid. And that area is just I mean it's where the projects are and such. And um so that's whenever I experienced sexual abuse for a second time.

Lyle Phillips11:42

Which was in my neighborhood. And this was um you know teenagers.

Lyle Phillips11:47

Yeah. So kind of a broken situation there.

Lyle Phillips11:51

It got it got really intense at about 14. So So as a kid, I would tell them I didn't want to go.

But um they didn't care because my parents eventually became pastors. Yeah.

So one of the things that pastors must feel is the pressure to have a picture perfect family.

Lyle Phillips12:15

Right. So your kids always got to be there. Kids got to be on the front row, you know, they got to be dressed nice. Everything's got to be great. And um so I I experienced that pressure, you know, as a kid. And um my parents did their best.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips15:18

And he was preaching and um he was doing something I'd never seen before.

He was walking up and down the aisles and he was saying like, "God showed me this about you." And he would say things to these people that I knew that I knew was true, but there was no way he would have that knowledge.

So he's prophesying. So, he's operating in the gift of the Holy Spirit. Okay.

1 Corinthians chapter 13,

Lyle Phillips15:47

So, so I'm like stunned. I'm like, what is going on here? Yeah.

I've never seen this happen. Like, we would pray for the sick in faith. And there were people who would come and testify and report to healing.

Lyle Phillips15:58

Hey, I got healed in the altar. Y'all prayed for me. Here, here was my doctor's report. I was diagnosed with cancer. I came back next week. I don't have the cancer. Here's the other doctor's report. I've been healed. Like, I grew up around this point. Okay. Like, so it's kind of like this supernatural culture. People believe in dreams and visions and prophecies and healings. I know that might be crazy for some people, but like that's what I grew up in. We can get into that if you want.

Lyle Phillips16:30

No. No, you never had no I didn't. I didn't because bro like the way in which God was portrayed to me. Yeah.

And preached to me which which I which is true is like God is very powerful. Yeah.

God can do anything. Nothing shall be impossible with God. And so it didn't

It it it didn't freak me out. I just thought yep that's true.

Lyle Phillips16:51

Because bro and and if this is too much just tell me I love it. I love it.

Tell me it's too much. So, like as a child, bro, like I would see uh things that were not there that no one else would see. And like I said, forgive me if this is too much. You can edit this out too much.

Lyle Phillips17:08

Is like I would see demons,

Lyle Phillips17:11

Often as a child.

And um it was just something that I grew up dealing with.

So the spiritual realm was not something that was difficult for me to accept. Okay.

I knew that there were uh things that are unexplainable that are very real and very powerful.

Lyle Phillips17:48

I think that's possible for some.

Okay. But I don't think that was my experience.

Lyle Phillips17:54

No, no, no. I No, it's a great question. And And no, I don't think so. And the reason for that is because I had these experiences so consistently even into adulthood.

Lyle Phillips18:16

Oh my goodness. So did you also do this like you did Iaska journey?

Lyle Phillips18:21

I don't know what that is. What is I

Lyle Phillips18:46

Did it seem like it lasted 10 hours or did it go by like that?

Lyle Phillips20:11

So that wasn't the music.

Lyle Phillips20:13

It was just something that you could hear.

Lyle Phillips20:16

Supernatural.

Lyle Phillips20:24

Wow. So you knew I have now crossed over.

Lyle Phillips20:43

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips21:10

He's still experiencing it.

I've been hearing about this cuz I know he's he's uh he's in Tennessee.

Lyle Phillips21:17

Yeah. I I don't know him personally. I have some mutual uh acquaintances I believe. Um, but I've heard a little bit about his journey.

Lyle Phillips21:28

Yeah. And that's um I would say that is probably I can say I feel familiar with that journey because I've also had that experience with hallucinagens.

Yeah.

As an adult.

Interesting.

Lyle Phillips21:56

Yeah. So uh it's it's kind of an affront all over the place. uh drugs, uh pornography, um alcohol, uh it's, you know, smoking weed, popping pills, all the things that kids tend to get into when they're just trying to impress their friends and be one of the cool kids.

Lyle Phillips22:15

And that's how I got introduced to like weed and pills and liquor and all that.

Um so yeah, probably about 14 years old, I started uh doing that. And honestly, initially it was just something fun to do with my friends.

Yeah. And then I realized how it was helping me to disconnect from my daytoday. And I think that was what drew me into a place of addiction as a young guy.

Lyle Phillips22:46

Uh probably 16. 16 and a half. Because once I got my license and I was able to drive and be free, it was pretty apparent to my parents that I was messing with the wrong people and doing the wrong things because after I had my license 3 4 months I suppose I got a DUI for the first time.

Lyle Phillips23:07

Yeah. A DUID. So driving under the influence of drugs rather than alcohol.

Dang.

So that was the very first time I was arrested.

Lyle Phillips23:17

I was very afraid. So I didn't want to tell them. I called my grandmother to come bail me out. Um, but very angry and sad, disappointed.

Lyle Phillips23:40

Yeah. Well, you know, my parents my parents always showed me so much love. And even to this day, aside from my wife, my dad is my best friend. Mh.

He's the best man in my wedding. We're very close. We speak every single day.

Lyle Phillips23:52

U But, you know, the environment that my dad grew up in, he he was adopted as as an infant. And then my grandfather, who was an amazing man, I think was just trying to figure it out, but he used to spank my dad with three yard sticks taped together,

You know? So, like

Lyle Phillips24:09

Yeah. It's just like it's a kind of the Kentucky like the backwoods like I don't know if you ever seen like Hillbilly

Elegy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. perfect picture of my childhood. Like I grew up in that kind of environment. So it's kind of backwoods. It's not Appalachia, but it's it's the equivalent in Western Kentucky. Gotcha. So like the guys are just, bro, they're smoking unfiltered cigarettes at 8. You know,

It my grandfather was a brick layer, you know, he died young from emphyma, you know, he just

Lyle Phillips24:42

Bro just crazy guys, honestly. So, like as a kid, let me let me give you an indicator. So, as a kid, so when Jeff Foxworthy on CMT did Country Fried Home Videos,

Lyle Phillips24:54

Okay. When that came out, my family won season one. And the reason for that is because we used to do beef fights as um a form of entertainment for our family reunions. So, it kind [clears throat] of gives you an This is how poor we were. We would fight bees. It doesn't make sense, right? Oh, bees like honey bees.

Honey bees. Yeah. Yeah. So, so like ground bees. Okay. So, you would have some switches and and I can give you some like footage of this if you'd like. So, like switches are like limbs from trees.

Lyle Phillips25:26

Okay. So, you clip off.

Lyle Phillips25:30

That's what we spank with in Right. You get whooped with the switch.

Lyle Phillips25:35

Oh. Wraps around your thigh. Bro, it's brutal.

Lyle Phillips25:39

Yeah. That's what we would get whooped with. And and so we would go and like we would get some ground bees and then like stir them up and then the bees would all you know of course they would attack you and so you could fight them back to back to other people but typically you'd have your shirt off and uh the last person to get stung would be that's the person who wins,

Right? So all the guys out there drinking beers and you know like that's their entertainment.

Lyle Phillips26:04

In Kentucky. So like

Lyle Phillips26:07

It's just a good picture. So, like my dad was pretty um aggressive with me as a kid. And like I said, he he's amazing man. We've gotten through all of this. Uh but you know, I mean, he would dude, he would whoop my hind even at 16, you know. I mean, he would grab me, put me up on the wall, headbutt me. Like, I mean, I think he's just trying to figure out Yeah. Sorry, Pops. Uh but it's like that was our, you know, that was our that was that was just like kind of where I was at and where we were at at the time.

And

Lyle Phillips26:36

He had me very young. He was 19 years old when he had when my mother gave birth to me at 20.

So I think he was just trying to figure out how to be a dad too. And you know maybe he was trying to figure out how to parent after

He was parent that parented that way. And so yeah 16 17 man like was just a lot of fights with my parents getting in trouble all the time. Uh getting arrested. I started getting arrested quite a bit uh for drug possession. Got a second DUI. Jeez stealing. uh fighting um uh you know I I I I was arrested uh the first time for fighting initially. Uh when they came to get me, they said, "We're arresting you for attempted murder." Uh but but they thankfully uh my parents paid for a really great lawyer.

I didn't try to kill anybody intentionally. Uh but we got into a fight and um they downgraded it to first-degree assault. Okay.

And and then the person that I got in a fight with said that's not true. That's not what he was trying to do. So, it ended up working out in my favor, thank God.

And sorry to that guy. I don't remember his name, but sorry to him.

Lyle Phillips27:45

Exactly.

Lyle Phillips27:51

And I think it was Yeah. You know, and uh we just we beat each other up pretty good.

Lyle Phillips28:05

So I leave I I leave home. So I have So I I I uh I'm still in high school. Okay.

Uh my mom finds um um a Desert Eagle uh pistol in my closet and she comes and asks, "Why do you have a gun in your closet?" And I said, "Uh,

Lyle Phillips28:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips28:29

Yeah. Yeah. Someone had sold it to me that stole it. And uh

Yeah. [snorts] So

Lyle Phillips28:39

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't even have a conversation with them. I just I just leave.

Lyle Phillips28:45

Yeah. I just move in with my friend's girlfriend who's a crack dealer.

Lyle Phillips28:49

So I live in that house. It's essentially it's it's a it's a nicer It's a dressed up version of a crack house. Okay.

And uh he said, "You can sleep in this room here." And it was a a room that was probably for dogs. Yeah. uh attached to the laundry room, but it was large enough for a child-siz uh single mattress bed. And so I I lived there.

And at that point,

Lyle Phillips29:10

Uh no, I kept going to school, but I I started doing cocaine, you know, pretty heavily to like, you know, just live my life and stay up late and and do the drugs and go to school. And then I was selling cocaine at school

Lyle Phillips29:36

Oh, yeah. And there were there was a lot of meth uh cuz in Kentucky that's a that's a big problem. It's a lot of meth and then crack, you know, back then it was crack. So, people cooking up crack.

And so, I would sell crack after school, but cocaine in school.

Lyle Phillips29:49

Yeah. Cuz not a lot of high schoolers were experimenting with crack at the time. It was more so like I want to snort cocaine.

Lyle Phillips29:56

I'm not being too like unfiltered, am I?

Lyle Phillips30:01

It lasted years actually, believe it or not, it can. Yeah. So, so at 17, so then um so they kick me out of school. I get arrested at school. They kick me out of school. They say, "You either have to leave this school or we're going to transfer you to like the juvenile delinquent school. Like you you have to get out of here." So, um, I go back to my old school then and um, because I'd been recruited to play basketball. I was actually, funny enough, I was playing basketball at a pretty high level the entire time I was using drugs.

Really?

So, I I played in what's called the EYBL, which is the Elite Youth Basketball League. Right. So, my teammate was Rajan Rondo, who ended up getting drafted by the Celtics.

Lyle Phillips30:38

Yeah. So, we I was playing ball at a high level while being a drug addict.

Lyle Phillips30:52

Wow.

Lyle Phillips32:06

High functioning drug addicts like that. Like the world does not really understand those type of people because they don't get us

Right. I mean I did it for 10 years. It was high every day for 10 years working in finance on like the highest level London, New York doing it. the the the layman doesn't really quite understand what happens in an addict's brain and the way that we live. Yeah. In that way because before I was before I graduated high school, I mean, I remember being so strung out like sorting through carpet fibers looking for enough cocaine to rub on my gums.

Lyle Phillips32:42

You know, cuz I'm I'm coming down and you feel like you're getting bare hugged and you can't breathe. And

Lyle Phillips32:49

The worst feeling in the world is is is that. And then, you know, at 17, then I'm starting to, you know, snorting Oxycottton and stuff like that. And then it's 18 shooting heroin

And uh shooting heroin in this hand and and meth in this hand at the same time.

Lyle Phillips33:05

Speedballs. Man,

Lyle Phillips33:06

Let me show you how to shoot him." Yeah. it. Funny enough, it was like so I was running with this guy who was he was a crack addict. Okay.

But he knew I really like Delotteds.

Lyle Phillips33:26

So he took me to like an old lady's house, bro. I mean, she had to have been I want to say in her late 60s, early '7s

And she had to connect with one of the pharmacist.

Lyle Phillips33:38

And so she's like, "Come on in. I have everything. Let me show you how to do this."

And what did she she me up the first time

Lyle Phillips33:48

Really?

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips33:52

Off to the races.

Lyle Phillips33:56

Man, I think it was just for me so much quicker.

Lyle Phillips34:01

And so much more intense.

Lyle Phillips34:03

And I was never um I never enjoyed like snorting stuff.

Lyle Phillips34:26

Yeah. I was vomiting every single day. And so like I would just constantly puke all day long. Like couldn't really keep anything down. Super skinny. And um I I don't know how to I don't I don't know if this is true, but when I went to rehab, which was court-ordered,

Lyle Phillips34:39

They told me, "You're vomiting up the lining of your intestine. Like you're you're doing so much drugs like it's wrecking your system. Like it's just it's just

Lyle Phillips34:49

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips34:52

Acid and what's in your and it's just constant, you know?

So that that was the result of me running from the cops.

Lyle Phillips34:59

So they they don't like when you run from them, right?

I'll tell you that.

Lyle Phillips35:03

Uh well, they pulled me over at 2:30 in the morning and so I tried to run away from them. So I I like I pulled into a neighborhood, threw it in park, took the keys out, threw it and I mean I dude I was on 10 volumes and I drank half a fifth of uh Jack Daniels.

Lyle Phillips35:19

Yeah, bro. You can't really run that fast when you're on a whole lot of medication. So like I tried to run and just so happened buddy called backup. So like they they end up like getting me. They're like both like shining their spotlights like can you stop? You know, and I try to clear a cast iron fence like one them old ones probably just clips my shins. I must have hit my head because I think I passed out because I remember waking up pushing off the ground and dude, they hit me.

Yeah.

Real hard. I'm sure. I think they hit me with the stick or whatever and then just kind of need me and then and then and then of course, you know, handcuff me.

Lyle Phillips35:55

Yeah. They're like, you can spend six months in jail or you can go to rehab

Lyle Phillips36:02

Yeah. It's like a longer sentence. Yeah. But they're giving you like a choice.

Yeah, they they gave me a choice.

Lyle Phillips36:08

And I said I'll take the rehab cuz they said you can go 30 days uh at Western State Hospital which is a mental institution. So you can go there and you can stay in that in that essentially it's an insane asylum. I mean people in there are

Lyle Phillips36:26

They're insane. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips36:35

That's true. They they did they diagnosed me as schizophrenic when I was 19.

Okay.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips36:42

Yeah. So I go I do my time in there.

Lyle Phillips36:46

Uh it wasn't that bad

Lyle Phillips36:47

Shockingly. Yeah. It wasn't as bad as I expected. I I don't know why.

Lyle Phillips36:56

Nothing like cold turkey. And it wasn't that bad.

It wasn't as bad as I expected it. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of people I was in there with. It was really bad.

Lyle Phillips37:03

And um like [snorts] Yeah. I I don't know. It just wasn't that bad.

Lyle Phillips37:14

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips37:17

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips37:19

I was in jail for a while, though. So, I was in solitary confinement. That was when the withdrawals happened.

Lyle Phillips37:29

Um, that time 17 days, I think.

Lyle Phillips37:39

Brother.

I don't wish that on anybody.

Lyle Phillips37:48

No, I was I was I was happy to be sober.

Okay.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips38:01

Yeah.

And they thought they thought I had died in jail.

So, like, you know, they check they like when they're doing roll call and stuff. Like, I'm not present.

Lyle Phillips38:09

Yeah. So, prior to this, I had a friend save my life. I would have died from aix affixiation, nose call or you you choke on your own vomit stuff. But he, you know, he rolled me over like I I would have died

Lyle Phillips38:21

No, no, no. Before then at at a crack house.

Lyle Phillips38:28

The hospital was pretty intense. There was a lot of people in there that there was even some people in there that I knew from the street that I'd sold drugs to.

Lyle Phillips38:34

Yeah. And so, it was cool like to to hang with them and talk with them and they took me to AA in a good people.

Lyle Phillips38:45

Yes.

Lyle Phillips38:51

Only a hall everybody in the same spot? So I'm in there with people coming down off of all sorts of drugs. I mean

Lyle Phillips39:07

Right there with them

Lyle Phillips39:12

No there's no violence thankfully uh in there. Everyone was pretty It was an interesting place because I felt like everybody was kind of like

Were cool with each other.

Lyle Phillips39:20

And you going through some dark stuff.

Lyle Phillips39:22

That was the vibe of this rehab. They had some pretty good counselors. Okay. And I actually feel like I had a certain measure of breakthrough in there where I started to see

I'm probably going to die

If I don't stop doing what I'm doing. And then I was also very dissatisfied with my life.

Lyle Phillips39:59

I'm a winner."

Yeah. I'm wasting my life and and this is not what I imagined for myself as a child. You know, interestingly, in rehab, dude, there was a guy who was a counselor. He was like a motorcycle man.

Lyle Phillips40:10

Came in one day. He's like, "Everybody close your eyes." He's like, "Imagine yourself your happiest time in life." I was, "Okay, close my eyes." I'm like 11 years old shooting hoops

Basketball. You know, I can see the shoes I'm wearing, place I'm playing. I'm like, "That was when I'm the happiest."

And he said, "Okay, I want you as you are today [snorts] to go talk to that person that you were when you were your happiest. Introduce yourself. And I did that. And dude, I mean, it it hit me in the heart.

Lyle Phillips40:45

Cuz he was like, "Are are you at your happiest proud of who you are today?"

That's an intense realization, bro. Because I I realized like, "Okay, the the kid that I was is not proud. In fact, he's very disappointed. And who have I become? Who is this guy?"

Lyle Phillips41:04

I never wanted to be this, you know? So, I think I think that helped me uh start to wake up a little bit.

Lyle Phillips41:17

I try for a little bit to to pull it together. So, I'm like, I'm not going to do hard drugs anymore, you know? I'm going to just smoke weed.

Lyle Phillips41:37

And and I didn't. And it's sad because so many people don't.

Lyle Phillips41:56

Yeah. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips42:20

That's right.

Lyle Phillips42:24

Yes.

But they tell you in there, right? Your body chooses your drug of choice.

Lyle Phillips42:28

You don't.

That's right. Until you're an addict, you don't know that addiction is a disease.

Lyle Phillips42:34

You know, and and like I at this point, like we're not in like normal podcast space, I guess. And if you're an addict like or you've been an addict, like you're like laughing along with us cuz you're like, "Wow, yeah, I know what that's like."

But for people who don't understand it, they're not in that fraternity.

Of people who have been free and

Lyle Phillips43:01

Exactly.

Lyle Phillips43:02

You don't want to be in that.

Lyle Phillips43:04

And sometimes people are like, "I don't have a cool story." No. You have the best story.

Lyle Phillips43:09

Stay away. You don't want that, dude.

Lyle Phillips43:12

They don't know what it's like, you know, to want to kill yourself.

No. Or put a gun in your mouth, which

Lyle Phillips43:42

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips43:53

Yeah. Back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. back doing the same stuff. But I did move to a different city. Okay.

So I was like, "All right, let me move to a different city and let me go to college." I was like, "I'm gonna I'm gonna do something good." And I said, "I will enroll in college and I will declare premed."

Lyle Phillips44:10

You know, I want to be a a pediatrician, okay?

Because I want to help children. Yep.

So that's what I thought. I I mean, I'm not like I'm not a Christian, but I want to help people. I want to help kids. And that's what I said. So, I went to school and I lasted about I don't know two weeks.

Lyle Phillips44:28

No, there was so much math, bro. I had never done a single homework assignment in my life.

Like, I made it through high school by paying freshman girls to do my math homework as a senior.

Lyle Phillips44:39

By paying them in weed.

Lyle Phillips44:45

Very Kentucky, bro.

Lyle Phillips44:53

You.

Lyle Phillips45:24

Because you find the same people. Who you are is who you attract.

Lyle Phillips45:28

And you end up getting in the same trouble. And that's exactly what I did, man.

Lyle Phillips45:32

Bowling Green, Kentucky, which is the uh not far from Nashville. It's where Western Kentucky University is.

So, Kentucky provides you with these funds like they call it keys money. So like based upon your grades or whatever, they give you so much money to like go to college. So I never actually turned that money in.

Lyle Phillips45:50

I just bought a bunch of weed with it

And decided I would start selling weed. Like just, you know, like just weed.

Lyle Phillips45:56

Not coke, not crack. Like I'm done with that. I'm just going to sell weed. Just going to smoke weed. Just going to drink. Just going to party, you know,

Mess around, see as many girls as I can, and like enjoy the kind of the the party life of being a college age kid. Okay. Well, I had a I had a friend who um he looked me up and he and I kind of grew up together, but I knew that he was dealing drugs at a different level, bro. I'm talking like kilos of coke, right? And so he said, "Hey, man, like I've just gotten into some trouble. Can I move to Bowling Green and stay with you?"

And I I said, "Yeah, sure." You know, I didn't ask what the trouble was. You know, street code, you don't really ask, don't tell, right? So he came to live with me and uh man then I I'm like I'm selling cocaine again

And this time I'm selling it at a pretty good clip.

Okay.

I'm like making money

Lyle Phillips46:49

College students. And I was also like serving at a barbecue restaurant. Yeah.

Which was just all my clientele, you know? I'm like selling Coke to all these college kids that are serving.

Lyle Phillips47:01

Yeah. Waiter.

Lyle Phillips47:07

No,

No, not at all.

Lyle Phillips47:12

Oh yeah. All of the And they would come there and like come get some barbecue and then like you know I'll sell to them or whatever.

Lyle Phillips47:19

That's what I was doing, man. And uh so like a few weeks before my life changed. Um I I just I started to have the experience when we talked about those spiritual experiences.

I started to have those all the time. All the time. I would have those in a in a very dark way.

Lyle Phillips47:38

Where I just felt very um probably similar to Shawn Ryan's story where I I would I would be driving, you know, smoking um not so much drinking and driving anymore, but like you know, listening to music uh uh obviously not Christian music, but listening to music about selling drugs, okay? You know, I was really into hip-hop, [clears throat]

Bro. I had gold teeth. Like, bro, like, like, you got to understand, Ken, like, I'm out there, bro.

Lyle Phillips48:06

Yes. So, at 19, so um there's a there's a there's a drug route from Chicago to Nashville that would run through my little town in Kentucky, right? And so, there was a lot of people who were connected to gangs. Gang violence was actually a thing there. So, when I was living in that crack house, not in Bowling Green, but in the other city, uh people would do drivebys on my house.

Lyle Phillips48:29

Yeah. Drivebys on my house. So, I like So, I've been shot at many times, bro.

Lyle Phillips48:33

Uh, it could be a red or blue thing, okay?

But it could also be just a we don't like you and you're talking to the girls we want to talk to and so we're going to shoot at you.

Lyle Phillips48:43

So, so that was some of that was among the first couple of times I was shot at.

Okay. So, like I mean I could tell you what it feels like to have like hot buckshot hit you from hitting the house above and

Like I'm shooting at people, you know, like so so so my roommate in that crack house, bro. So I I went out of town uh for a couple of nights. My roommate was in a in a drug dispute uh with a guy he was selling crack to. and um he pulls out a gun uh puts it in the car uh shoots everybody in the car and and then my roommate gets shot point blank in the chest and he dies in the street.

Lyle Phillips49:21

So So that was when I was 19. That was my best friend.

Lyle Phillips49:24

And and and um one of the guys that he shot who since passed away paralyzed from the neck down and then his dad and I played junior pro basketball with him and then his dad was in that rehab with me. So you think about the intensity of that rehab and my roommate whom his friend has killed

Who shot his son and turned him into a parapolgic. We're in the rehab together and we actually had a bonding, you know, moments like, man, hey, we're in this thing together, right? So this is like some of my life, bro. Like and I I start now I'm having kind of visions and and you're going to die.

You're going to die. You're going to be killed. You know, I'm starting to hear this. Like I'm I'm riding in the car and I'm I'm like demons are in this car with me. I know that may not make sense to a lot of people, but like I can see them.

Lyle Phillips50:08

You know what do they look like?

Lyle Phillips50:11

Okay.

Yeah. Like you're going to die.

Lyle Phillips50:14

Kill yourself.

You know, run yourself off the road, which I did one time

Lyle Phillips50:19

Yeah. Intentionally. Yeah. So, I was probably driving about 65 miles an hour and I ran myself off the road and hit a culvert. I flipped three times.

Lyle Phillips50:28

Uh, yes, but no. So like the whole car was completely pressed in except a bubble in the driver's side. All the windows were smashed out except for the driver's side window.

Lyle Phillips50:40

Unconscious? So I was in the middle of nowhere in the middle of a cornfield. Right.

So I wake up. I'm not wearing a seat belt either, by the way. [snorts]

So the reason I know I flipped three times cuz the girl behind me told me.

Lyle Phillips50:52

So I'm I wake up. I'm holding the I'm holding the steering wheel with my left hand. Mhm.

The whole car is busted in except for the driver's side uh window. Um you know, I'm drinking, smoking, everything, right? Popping pills, whatever. I kick the window out to get out. I remember I have a I have a Tango Jin in the car and I'm like, "Okay, I know that cuz I'm drinking." So, I'm like, "Okay, I know the cops are going to find this so I should take it with me." And my car obviously won't start. It's completely Yeah. It's destroyed. So, now I'm walking.

Lyle Phillips51:25

She didn't stop initially. She kept driving. She ended up turning around later.

Lyle Phillips51:32

I think she was scared.

Lyle Phillips51:34

I kind of like freaked her out. Maybe cuz I think she may have known it was me. I I don't know. I don't know cuz she went to high school with me.

Lyle Phillips51:41

So, I learned that when she turned around because by the time she had turned around, I had got out of the car and I was walking towards the house. Now, here's what's crazy, bro. You can't tell me God's not real watching over my life.

Okay? I'm in the middle of nowhere. The person that walks out of the house looks at me and says, "Lyle, because they attended my dad's church and I hadn't seen my parents in probably over a year at this point."

Lyle Phillips52:05

Yes.

Lyle Phillips52:06

Coming out of this wrecked car and with so much glass in my forehead, bro. Like I was bleeding. My whole shirt was had a ring of blood. I was bleeding and I didn't I didn't realize like, you know, that my body was had gone through the trauma it had. So I said, "Can I use your bathroom?"

Lyle Phillips52:22

And she They said, "Yeah, you can use the bathroom." So I threw the Tanganger bottle in the trash can. Yeah.

I saw I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror. I mean, I'm Dude, I'm I'm messed up.

Lyle Phillips52:31

I think it freaked me out a little bit because then I started involuntary shaking.

Lyle Phillips52:35

And then that's when the girl walked in. And uh she was like, "I've called the I've called the ambulance." You know, and then my neck started drawing up.

Lyle Phillips52:43

And I was just kind of shaking. I think my body was just kind of, you know, tightening and spasm like I don't know. I don't know what's happening. So the [snorts] ambulance came and got me and put me in the ambulance and took me to the hospital.

Lyle Phillips52:53

So like I mean I know that my story now is kind of jumbled but bro like this is like some of the crap that I went through.

So whenever my life changes I'm I'm having these experiences of like

Okay I'm I'm freaking out all the time but I'm also having good experiences where I sense that God is speaking to me.

Tell me about a good one. So, same experience that I has had as a kid when I was in church where I would literally know. I don't just want to say feel, Ken. I would know. It was like there was an inner knowing that God was with me. He was present and he was speaking to me. And what he was saying was saturated with love and was true and was caring. And he would say, "Come to me. I have I have a purpose for your life.

I have a future for you. It's a good future." And I I remember saying, "Leave me alone. Don't talk to me.

Uh, one day I'll turn my life to you, God, but not right now.

Lyle Phillips53:47

So, just be simple things like, I love you. You know, I love you. I'm I'm I'm with you. I have a future for you. So, it was kind of like prayer, but it was like completely involuntary. I didn't want to pray.

Lyle Phillips54:04

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips54:12

You remember my friend, my childhood friend that I'm selling cocaine with or selling weed with and all this? That brother gets arrested. So we had counted out like $125,000 in cash out on my kitchen table. He gets arrested coming back to my house with 2 kilos of coke, 250 lbs of weed. He's still in prison to this day.

Lyle Phillips54:33

No, it was like he stuffed it in the trunk of some sort of big, you know, coach sedan or whatever. So he's driving back to my house. He gets busted. I'm now at my house by

Lyle Phillips54:48

Two.

Lyle Phillips54:49

Yeah,

Lyle Phillips54:51

So at this point like this, my friends are kind of running at this level now.

Lyle Phillips54:58

Cartels.

Uh larger cities, Chicago, Memphis.

Lyle Phillips55:05

Yeah. and or or down at the you know like the coast Florida, Alabama, Texas.

Okay. Okay.

You know, coming up from uh Mexico and stuff.

Lyle Phillips55:15

Yeah. I'm done. So, I didn't know about his pending attempted murder charge either cuz he had shot some guys in broad daylight with an AK-47. Thankfully, none of them were killed. But this just gives you an indicator of what my life was like. Yeah. So, we're talking about selling coke, selling crack, uh smoking weed, drinking fits of tequila every night to go to sleep, partying, uh sleeping with women. Like I mean I'm talk, bro. Like we're talking absolutely off the rails.

Lyle Phillips55:39

A lunatic. Okay.

Shooting at people, getting shot at, overdosing on drugs, shooting up heroin.

Lyle Phillips56:16

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips56:35

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I wanted to kill anybody, you know? I think I still had a measure of u kindness in my heart.

Lyle Phillips56:51

Sadly, I never said that,

You know, because I was I was sort of like an outsider.

Lyle Phillips56:55

Uh in the

The people that I ran with.

Yeah. one, I was I was one of few white people, so I did I didn't quite fit in with a lot of my friends in that sense, uh, culturally. Also, they were confused. Like, your dad has a good job. I know he's a pastor, but he also makes money. Like, he takes you on trips. You grew up going to Disney World. Like, what is what are you doing? Go home.

Lyle Phillips57:15

You know, so like I just kept I kept my mouth shut and I did my drugs and did my thing. And so, uh, I'm 21 years old at this point. I I I'll I'll kind of shift the the because I know there's probably other things for us to talk about. But I'm rolling up some weed for the next day. Cuz every day I would wake up, the first thing I would do is light a blunt. Yep. Every day light the blunt, go brush my teeth, you know, get ready for my day, do whatever, start taking phone calls to sell drugs.

My friend just got arrested. I'm now sitting on my futon. It's late at night. I'm rolling up some weed for the next day. And I watch as somebody walks past my window and I say to myself, "It's the SWAT team. They they've just arrested my uh my friend. They also just kicked down the door down the street at another friend of mine's house who I'd been buying cocaine from. So I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna get arrested tonight." So I go to the window, I look out, there's no one there.

No one's there. There's no way it would be possible for somebody to hide because I'm on the second floor and there's no space up on the porch.

Lyle Phillips58:12

So I mean, I'm not taking hallucinogens. I'm not incredibly high. I'm not shooting up. I'm not popping pills. I'm not even drunk. like that for whatever reason was kind of chill just by myself. I'm watching, you know, comedy or something. I'm like, "Hold on. Wait, what is happening?" I start to feel fear cuz I know somebody's walked past my window. I I go to the peepphole and I look out the window to see if somebody could be hiding. No one's there. I take a step back from the door and I start to think, "What is going on?" Because I'm I'm like I'm I'm feeling uh like it's a certain measure of fear.

It's like I'm I'm feeling like something shifting in the atmosphere. It's the best way I know how to describe it. And I It's almost as if I know like something is about to happen, but I don't know what. And the best way I know how to describe this, Ken, is that Jesus himself stepped through that door and into that room. Now, I did not see him like an angel or I did not see an I didn't see him, but I knew he was there. And I didn't hear it audibly, but I heard him speak to me.

And he said, "In 6 months, you're going to be dead or in prison unless you come home to me right now." That's how I became a Christian.

Lyle Phillips59:25

I got down on my knees and I said, "I don't really know how to pray the right way, but I do remember as a kid they told me I needed to repent of my sins." So, I repent of my sins. And um I know you love me. I'm sorry for running away from you for all these years. Um, I ch I choose you. I choose to run toward you. So then I picked up the phone. I called my friend who was holding money for me. Said, "Bring me my money tomorrow.

I'm no longer selling drugs. I'm moving home. I'm going to be a good son to my parents and I'm going to be a good big brother to my three younger brothers." He said, "What are you doing? What have you taken? Are what what are you talking about?" I said, "Nothing, bro. I'm not I'm not like I'm not on anything. like maybe I'll smoke some, but like I'm not on anything. Bro, I I'm I I Jesus came to my house. I thought it was the cops. He spoke to me.

He told me I'm gonna be dead in six months or in prison. So come home to him right now.

Lyle Phillips1:00:22

Yeah, he's definitely high. And he's like, "I'll come tomorrow, you know, with the money." Great. See you tomorrow. He comes over, brings me some money. Uh some money he was keeping for me. Um, and I immediately call my parents that I was pretty much estranged from from the time that I was 17.

Lyle Phillips1:00:42

21.

Okay. 4 years.

Lyle Phillips1:00:44

I said, "Hey, I'm moving home." Ho ho ho ho ho. You ain't moving home. What are you talking about? You moving home? You ain't moving home?

Lyle Phillips1:00:53

And I said, I just I It's time. It's time for me to move home. I I I want to change my life. And um it took my mom a little bit longer to like accept that I was telling the truth because bro, I had stolen from my parents. I would break into their house when they were on vacation. I would steal things out of their garage, go pawn it.

Lyle Phillips1:01:13

Yeah.

Cuz for a season there, not only was I living in the crack house, I was living in the backseat of a 1987 Capri Classic.

So I experienced the homelessness thing as well. So I would steal from my parents to go and buy Burger King.

Lyle Phillips1:01:32

So after that, like,

You know, they were I changed my cell phone number twice. So none of my old friends could get a hold of me at all.

Um I didn't tell any of my friends where I was going aside from the guy who was holding money for me. And he was like, "Okay, I get it." He was from a good family. He was a good guy. He's like, "I get it. Go home, man."

Changed my number twice. I moved in with my parents and I went dark completely underground completely disconnected from everybody that I called a friend in that world and I went to church every single Sunday and I'm just trying to like figure it out like okay how do I how do I become a Christian?

So every night my mom would cook dinner. Everybody was so excited that I was home. I would go to my little brother's football games, basketball games. I would stay I I didn't have any friends to go anywhere. Um and

Lyle Phillips1:02:18

Take Yeah. My mom threw them in the trash.

Lyle Phillips1:02:20

Yeah. So, I didn't have those anymore. And um every night my dad and I would sit down after dinner and we would watch a sermon on TV and he would pause it if I have questions. And that's how he poured into me for about 9 months to teach me the Bible.

And then after that,

Lyle Phillips1:02:58

Yeah. Yeah. Same same thing. Same questions. Okay. Like what does that mean? What does that look like? Like what do you mean like God showed up to a person? Like I was so fascinated by Exodus 33. It's this story where this human being, Moses, who is a leader of Israel at the time, has what scholars call a theophony. It's where a human being has the privilege of seeing God to a certain extent.

Lyle Phillips1:03:21

And I'm just fascinated by that. I'm like, dude, I've had this like experience. It's supernatural. It's spiritual. I don't know how to explain it, but I know it's real. And now I'm seeing in the Bible as other people have had similar experiences. Okay?

I'm like, I explain this to me, Dad.

How does this happen? Why does God do this? It's like the Apostle Paul who wrote a majority of the New Testament, you know, he's on his way to persecute the Christian church, and then he has an experience with Jesus where Jesus shows up, blinds him, and it's like, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He's like, "I don't even know who you are." He's like, "I'm Jesus, who you're persecuting." So, I'm like, I'm so consumed by these stories. Like, God is interrupting humans lives and they're having these experiences that are very real and very lifechanging with God.

What is that about? What does that mean for me, Dad? And I would just ask him questions.

What does it mean for me? What am I supposed to do with my life? What's my purpose? I'd ask him questions like that. Okay.

What's my purpose? Like, am I supposed to particip am I supposed to participate in the life of the church or I go get a 9 to5?

You know, I thought I was like, I'll go paint cars.

That's that was the first thing. I don't know why. I was always kind of artistic. I was like, I I'll I'll go paint cars.

Lyle Phillips1:04:30

So, I started painting houses and like I was like, I'll paint cars. Like

Like trying to like what's my what's my destiny? What's my assignment? What does God want from me? Because for the first time ever, I am completely surrendered to whatever it is he wants me to do.

Lyle Phillips1:04:50

What do I do?"

Lyle Phillips1:04:56

Yep. I tell my dad one night as we're watching a sermon, I said, "Dad, can you pause it, please?" I said, "Dad, I want to tell you about something that happened to me when I was 14. I was quite sure God spoke to me and told me I was supposed to be a preacher. And he said, "Uh, I've always known that about you."

Lyle Phillips1:05:16

So, I said, "Well, then I need to preach."

Lyle Phillips1:05:25

Nothing.

Lyle Phillips1:05:26

I knew Sunday school uh lessons, right? Like stuff I had heard as a child.

Lyle Phillips1:05:31

So, I said, "I this is what I'm supposed to do." and he said, "Okay, well, um,

We'll keep doing this and I'll let you preach eventually."

Lyle Phillips1:05:40

He has his own church.

Lyle Phillips1:05:46

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:06:00

Yeah. Sure.

Lyle Phillips1:06:08

That's right. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:06:09

So, I'm going to train you and show you how to preach and tell you what to do and help you craft a message and we need to make sure that it's true. Yeah.

You're not saying crazy stuff that's not biblical.

Lyle Phillips1:06:20

So, I said, "Okay, well, when can I do that?"

Lyle Phillips1:06:38

So it was it was more so like rather than give the Bible an assignment, receive your assignment from the Bible. So any good sermon always starts with scripture. Okay?

So you don't want to just take your opinion and try to apply that to the Bible cuz that's how you end up with all kinds of wonky doctrines. You know, people preaching their opinion as truth. Yeah.

So he's like a passage of scripture that you really enjoy that speaks to you. You feel like like God is saying like I need to share this passage of scripture with other people

And then I will teach you how to break it down, how to study it, how to understand it

Enough to be able to share it with other people.

Lyle Phillips1:07:17

And you you you obviously you wouldn't read it with a teleprompter, but you would memorize like the bullet points and just start applying your life to these passages. Yeah. Initially I I initially I would I would uh write a manuscript and I would just read it word for word.

Lyle Phillips1:07:33

Yeah. So it was like not great communication, right?

Cuz I'm reading I'm just reading words. Yeah. And initially, bro, I would just plagiarize other preachers.

Lyle Phillips1:07:43

I would literally just plagiarize them. I would just like I would listen to their sermon and write everything that they said and then I would just get up and read it like it was my own.

Lyle Phillips1:07:55

No,

No, sadly I didn't.

Lyle Phillips1:08:01

That's exactly what I did.

Lyle Phillips1:08:05

No, no. He he told me he was like he was like, "Find a message that you are inspired by."

Lyle Phillips1:08:11

And and and preach that that message like summarize it and preach it. Like you're not a good preacher yet.

You don't know what you're talking about. So like learn from someone who is and then you know repeat a similar message. You've got to internalize it but then you know share that message. Well I I just didn't know how to do that so I just plagiarized it and read it word for word.

He must have loved it though. He must have like this is like this is pretty good.

Lyle Phillips1:08:35

That's what everybody said. They were like dang bro like you're a great preacher. And I was just like thank you very much.

Lyle Phillips1:08:44

Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Lyle Phillips1:08:59

Yeah. I kn I knew ex I knew that was exactly what I was supposed to be doing from the time that I was younger. I just didn't want to yield to it. I didn't want to surrender to it. I think that's probably what took me on that journey. But once I started preaching, it was so apparent to everybody in my world that this is what I was born to do.

Lyle Phillips1:09:27

No, I talked to them. So, I started, they would ask me to do their weddings. I started to get asked to come and share at youth groups in the same neighborhoods where I used to sell crack.

Yeah. because they were like, "Dude, if if God could save your life,

He can save anybody's life. Like, we knew you when you were getting arrested all the time and like strung out on drugs and living in the backseat of your car. Like, you come and preach to us."

Lyle Phillips1:10:34

Cross cross point cross point. Shout out Pastor Kevin Queen. Great man.

Lyle Phillips1:10:43

This is so good. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:11:09

CEOs Christmas and Easter only.

Lyle Phillips1:12:42

Sounds like a rehab center. Just keep coming back. Just keep coming back.

Lyle Phillips1:12:52

Mhm.

Lyle Phillips1:13:12

Absolutely. So I tell him, I'm like, "Hey, I want to I'm I'm giving my life to this. I'm going to be a preacher." And so he says, "Well, you know, I'm probably not able to take you as far as other friends that I have that are been doing this much longer than me. So why don't you move to go to Texas?

There's a ministry school there that's operating out of a church we're connected to and you can be a student at their ministry school." So

Lyle Phillips1:13:47

Exactly.

So he had trained me for about nine months. My dad just disciples me relationally, you know, within the context of a father-son relationship. And then I move to Texas and I start uh going to this school that's at this church that is led by a guy who is a pastor still today in Texas and his name is Jonathan Suber. He's an amazing man. He grew up as a missionary in Ivory Coast, West Africa. He's white from Louisiana, but he grew up there and can speak and preach in French.

Lyle Phillips1:14:16

So I start working for him. I'm not making a ton of money. I make a $100 every Friday. Yeah.

And I'm what's called his armor bearer. So, it's kind of like um a personal assistant, but I'm always on call and I am doing everything that I can to serve this guy, right? So,

Lyle Phillips1:14:37

Yeah. Yeah. I would wash his car. I would clean his house.

Lyle Phillips1:14:50

Yeah, it is. And and this is kind of dying out a little bit amongst ministers because I think the you know the social media people talk about uh spiritual abuse u church hurt uh these are very popular topics today and so a lot of young people are not willing to do things like that as in my era of coming up in ministry we was just pretty normal and we never felt like we were being taken advantage of.

Lyle Phillips1:15:13

Never once, man. Because because he would he would take me on trips. He took me he took me to the Philippines where he was preaching at a crusade of 30,000 people. And before he gets up to go preach, he hands me the microphone. He said, "Here you go. Say a few words."

Lyle Phillips1:15:35

Invaluable experience. And And I'm riding next to him in the airplane and he's he's mentoring me the whole time on these, you know, 10-hour flights. And then I'm staying with him in the hotel room and he's talking to me about, "Hey, let me show you how to pray. Let me show you how to fast. Let me show you how to interpret or understand visions or dreams that you may receive. Let me show you how to pray for the sick. Let me show you how to preach and how to work in an altar and lay hands on people and pray for them and and prophesy and things like this." He's talking to me about this.

So, um, I never thought of it as as being weird. And he took me to West Africa to Ivory Coast where he grew up. He took me to Uganda. He took me to the Philippines. I went to Mexico. And so it

Lyle Phillips1:16:15

It was amazing. And I realized there's so many people on the other side of the world that have never heard the name of Jesus. So why don't I go preach to them rather than in America where everybody is familiar with Christianity enough.

Lyle Phillips1:16:28

So that's what I did. And then I moved to Mosmbique, Africa. And I started living there and off and on. I came back a few times, but I lived there cumulatively probably about a year and a half.

Wow. At the time, Mosmb beek was the poorest country in the world. And I started working with this organization called Iris Global. And it's led by um a couple, but primarily a lady named Heidi Baker. And so I studied there. They had a school of missions that was 3 months, very hands-on, very practical. They would send you out into what they call the bush bush, which is middle of nowhere with no electricity. And you would preach on the back of a flatbed truck, and then you would pray for people who were sick and evangel.

But they would have a translator, often times two translators. So you'd speak in English, then there'd be Portuguese, then to Makua, which is the village.

The dialect.

Lyle Phillips1:17:56

Yes. But I digress. Super poor. Super poor, bro.

Lyle Phillips1:18:04

I loved it. I loved it so much. I was like this. I'm home.

Lyle Phillips1:18:08

I'm home. You know, uh, forgive the expression, but the third world.

I'm home. You know, I lived in my car. I was a heroin addict. You know, not everybody's got the guts for this.

Not everybody can go live where there's no electricity and no running water. That's the truth.

But, dude, I've been through worse stuff over there without Jesus. I'll come over here and do this for Jesus.

And so, dude, I was just preaching to people. I was loving on children, like helping kids, you know, kids who were poor, kids who were sick, kids who were coming in off the street with, you know, infections and just in rough shape. And one of the things that this lady Heidi Baker talks about is stopping for the one. And it's just about loving the person in front of you. And I would say that she's like the Mother Teresa of our day. She's just not as wellknown.

But they've actually helped to establish 10,000 churches in Mosmb beek and they care for thousands of kids across the country feeding them, educating them, housing them, doing it all for free.

Uh churches in America or Europe primarily

Lyle Phillips1:19:11

Send donations to Heidi and then she'll distribute them and does a very great job of that. Iris Global is the organization. You can see their annual report how they steward the money. They do a great job. And so I was there. she was training me and and as well as some other instructors. And so after being there for about a year and a half total, I served on their staff for a little bit. I started a nonprofit organization at this time. And and so you started your own started my own cuz I said

Lyle Phillips1:19:36

In the US and I said I'm going to just start helping kids over here to help this organization that I'm connected to. Okay.

So I started by um um an adoption program, not uh like kind of like compassion or world vision, like I'm going to adopt a child to take care of.

Lyle Phillips1:19:52

And so I started with 13 kids and I raised enough money to feed, clothe, and educate those 13 kids and then take care of their if they had grandmothers, most of them were disabled, to take care of them and then to buy additional property to set up a little schoolhouse there. And so I now I'm in my early 20s and I'm actively raising hundreds of thousands of dollars to care for these children in Africa.

Lyle Phillips1:20:15

Mostly from my my parents' church. Okay. Okay.

And then as people knew that I was uh you know a missionary, they'd ask me to come speak at their youth group or their church. I'd tell the story of the kids I was caring for and they'd give me a donation.

Okay.

Sometimes it'd be, you know, a couple hundred bucks, but sometimes it'd be 10,000.

Lyle Phillips1:20:36

Well, absolutely they could. Which is why you see so many get in trouble for this because we legally have to abide by the 501c3 code of the law, right? But unfortunately, like if you don't have good accountability from your board of directors, you as the person running the organization could be afforded a great deal of privacy to use those funds as you see fit. And unless somebody holds you accountable, you could really jack it up.

Lyle Phillips1:21:04

I had a board, you know, and uh my parents were uh really a part of overseeing how money would come in and go out and then I would share annual reports and talk about what I did with the money. And so from there I said to um everybody there with uh Heidi and the team, I would like to go now to another place that is in uh a greater need. It's a very poor place here, but I I've heard about a place where there are a lot of children being trafficked.

So I would like to go there and rescue kids from human trafficking.

Lyle Phillips1:21:33

India.

Lyle Phillips1:21:37

I moved to India.

Lyle Phillips1:21:40

Yeah. So I'm like over there, bro. Like preaching. I'm learning the language. Um I I'm which the language is Telugu which is an adaptation of Sanskrit very difficult language to learn

But I start part partnering with some nationals some Indians and uh to help children. So I told them this is the mission that I sense that I'm on is I want to rescue kids from human trafficking. I want to rescue child slaves. I want to do everything that I can to set these children free. Do you know where we could go to to help some kids?

Lyle Phillips1:22:16

Oh brother human trafficking here is something we never witness right we hear about it we see it you know you may hear about it through stories of other organizations over there it is everywhere like child labor is something if we open this door in India there's a kid that's not supposed to be working but is and is not getting paid and is probably enslaved as an indentured servant. Maybe they get to go home at night, but their parents are in so much debt that they're never going to be able to get out of.

So, they have to sell their child, their child, their kids' childhood to now working for an oppressive slave owner is essentially what they are to do whatever task they ask because their family's in so much debt that that's their life. And what's unfortunate is that a lot of these kids get exploited beyond the labor and then they're used as prostitutes during the evening

Against their will.

Lyle Phillips1:23:16

Oh yeah they hated me they they threatened me they told me they would kill me

Lyle Phillips1:23:24

Yeah so that's what they said they said if you come back here we'll have you killed police are on the payroll and we'll kill you so for me bro you have to understand is that I don't care to die for Jesus I had just been on the brink of death so many times as a drug addict, as someone who was not a Christian, as somebody who was living their life in the opposite direction of Christianity and the Lord. So I said, "Yeah, okay. Well, if if I die, I die.

I'll be a martyr." Yeah.

Like that's a glorious way to go out. Everybody who wrote the New Testament was martyed.

Lyle Phillips1:23:55

You know, when Jesus says, "Pick up your cross and follow me. Deny yourself." Like back in the day, they weren't confused about what that meant because picking up your cross, you know, now it's a beautiful piece of jewelry, but this was the ancient equivalent of an electric chair.

Lyle Phillips1:24:09

So like when he says pick up your cross, it's like, hey, pick up your electric chair because you're you could die following me, preaching the gospel, doing what I've called you to do. I'm not promising you your safety. I'm promising you my presence. I will go with you. I'll not leave you nor forsake you. But you could get into some trouble doing this. And that was exactly what happened. And eventually they took me to different places and yeah, people threatened us and stuff, but I just thought, I've been shot at before.

You know, I don't think these guys will actually try to kill me. They might, and if they do, they do, but I'm here to rescue these kids. And I met some of the children, and I told them, I'm here. I'm a Christian. Um, they noticed that I'm white. And so maybe they equate that to being a Christian, but I said, I'm here because Jesus has told me to come here and to help you, and I would like to rescue you. So, I'll do everything I can to get you out of this situation.

Lyle Phillips1:25:16

Yes.

What happens by by agreeing on a price uh to pay their debts?

Okay.

Lyle Phillips1:25:23

Usually not. It's varied, but it could be as little as a few hundred, but it could be as much as 5,000 7,000.

Lyle Phillips1:25:31

Not a lot of money for a child's life.

Lyle Phillips1:25:39

So, we would uh so like I said, I partnered with some nationals and uh I helped them to open up eight different homes for children. Some were boys homes, some were girls homes, some were co-ed. So once the child is able to come free, if they have family that they're in contact with, then we can return them to their family and we can let

Lyle Phillips1:25:58

So that is a problem because sometimes the family is addicts or alcoholics and so they're selling that child in exchange for liquor.

Lyle Phillips1:26:08

You know, so if that's the case, then we obviously want to get permission because we don't want to be arrested for kidnapping, of course. But we do want to get permission to let them know, hey, look, we can help you with some food. We can help you with some clothing. We can help you with maybe a few practical things. But we would like to take this child to our school which in India it's very common to have not only a school but also a boarding house.

So that's a very common thing. So there's a place for them to live, there's food for them to eat, there's clothes for them to wear and education for them to receive. It is of no cost to you. It will be free and we would love to take your child. We are Christians. We will introduce them to Jesus. We will teach them the Bible and we will show them how to worship. And most of the time people are absolutely fine with that because they recognize you've rescued my child from this situation.

You've paid my debt. And you know certain times, yes, it's it is very bad. And I have experienced plenty of those times. Plenty of those times.

Lyle Phillips1:27:03

Like where uh these parents would resell their child if they had the opportunity to do so. And I and I can't kidnap them. You know, even if we pay their debt, I still can't take them against the parents will. And that happened several times. Geez, it's amazing for me to tell you in my time in India, I rescued I I didn't personally, you know, all credit goes to God and the team that I was working with, but we rescued over 400 kids from human trafficking, child slavery, and prostitution.

Jeez. So, I'm happy to be able to say that and that preaches good from a pull pit, but but in a podcast setting, I can tell you about the kids that I lost.

You know, the parents who wouldn't let me take the child. The parents who would take the child back and then sell them as prostitutes at night. They're little girls. You know, I I one time I was walking through a city and and a lady put a clipboard in my hand. I'm why you put it what is this? You know, I can't really read it. It's in Telugu. But then as I have my translator help me, uh, she has got a photo of her child here and she is selling her daughter.

Uh, I think it was like $400.

Lyle Phillips1:28:03

Selling my daughter for $400. Would you like to buy her?

And I'm like, hold on. Wait, what? Like, let us help you. Then she shows us the girl. Here's the girl. Here she is. She's probably 9, 10 years old,

You know. So, can you can you can you buy her? You can do whatever you want with her.

Lyle Phillips1:28:23

Abuser.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:28:28

Hindu.

Lyle Phillips1:28:32

Um not good. Um

Lyle Phillips1:28:39

I would say two two ways. I was in Southeast India. So in India there's more Christians in South India than there are in North India. I never experienced up close and personal persecution like physical. I mean there was a time whenever um I went into my hotel and then somebody got up on my SUV and and threw a block through the front front glass to kind of like say get out of here whatever. Uh but I didn't experience a ton of that. They didn't like Christians but also at the same time there was a lot of Christians in South India.

So you know it's kind of half and half I suppose. But I think the way that they saw Christians was like okay your God is Jesus. We have all kinds of gods. Yeah.

You know, we have 33 million gods. Y So, you just worship one of millions of gods and you're a dogooder and you're here like helping people with water and rice and uh housing and school and so they for the most part like everyday people left left me be.

Lyle Phillips1:29:35

It's you're doing you're a dogooder. You're you're you're the Red Cross guy. So, it's fine.

Lyle Phillips1:29:42

So, I would say full-time 3 years. Um, another two years part-time.

Lyle Phillips1:29:51

Back to Kentucky.

Kentucky.

Yeah. To my parents.

Lyle Phillips1:29:58

So whenever I left to go on the mission field, then I studied for a little bit with Heidi Baker and then after that it was kind of back to my parents. Yeah. And so my dad would help me some, but then I would just I would take a ton of books with me overseas and I would just read, I would write, I would study, I would pray, I would fast, and I would uh watch sermons and college courses was essentially what I was doing. They were unofficial college courses.

I would just audit them.

Lyle Phillips1:30:27

So this would have been I left India officially around the time I met my wife. So this would have been 2012, I think.

And how old were you? I would have been uh 2012 is 14 years ago. I'm 42 now. So that puts me at what 27 28.

Lyle Phillips1:30:44

Actually in Nashville. So she had come home for Christmas to visit her family. And this was when we were starting our church in Nashville, which initi initially was not supposed to be a church. We were just having excuse me a community worship night in a living room in Nashville.

Lyle Phillips1:31:07

So I'm in Kentucky and I use BNA as my airport which which my flight path to go to India was drive from NA from Kentucky to BNA. 2 hours

Lyle Phillips1:31:18

Get on a plane go to uh Chicago go to Chicago to Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi to Hyderabad, Hyderabbed to Raja Mandre, get in a car and drive to Kakinata. So, I just thought, well, it would probably be easier if I would just move to Nashville where my airport is because I eventually want to start a training school for missionaries because India is a really big place and I think I needed to develop some people to help me.

Lyle Phillips1:31:42

So, that was why I initially moved here and we were just hosting these like community worship gatherings on Sunday evenings and then we would go out on Tuesday night and feed the homeless

Lyle Phillips1:31:53

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Downtown. You know where the downtown library is and stuff

Lyle Phillips1:31:58

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:31:59

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of homeless people here. There's a there's a woman named Candy Christmas that does under the bridge ministry. There's another uh organization called People Loving Nashville that go out and feed people on Tuesdays and Thursdays. There's a lot of There's a lot of homeless people in Nashville.

Really? Downtown. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:32:23

Yep. start meeting people here that like go to Belmont University. And now I'm starting to get asked to speak in universities about rescuing children from human trafficking.

Lyle Phillips1:32:32

Because you know it's like now people are starting to hear my story. They're starting to hear about what's happening like come in talk to us about this. Yeah.

Cuz this is when like human trafficking awareness is now on the rise. Yeah. Everybody's talking about it. Everybody wants to be involved in it.

It's like the sexy ministry to be a part of as a young person. So I'm like I'm speaking I I did some convocations at different universities in Nashville. I'm just going to move here.

Lyle Phillips1:32:54

So that's then then my wife came and and uh she was home for Christmas from from school. And

Lyle Phillips1:33:02

I had no money almost.

I I basically my nonprofit organization I was on staff. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:33:12

I mean it covered my rent which was $800 a month in Nashville. And aside from that, it was enough for food.

Lyle Phillips1:33:19

I I I didn't really take a lot of money from the organization because I wanted to give it all to the kids.

Lyle Phillips1:33:25

When my wife and I met, a year later, we got engaged. And when I filed taxes, which was the first time I'd filed taxes in probably

Oh, I don't know, over a decade. Cuz as a missionary, there's no there's there's no taxes to file. You're just living off support,

Handouts. I filed taxes for $4,000. On $4,000.

Lyle Phillips1:33:45

She was in she was in California. She was at a ministry school at a church in California.

Lyle Phillips1:33:51

Oh yeah. She was like I want to be a church planter one day.

Lyle Phillips1:33:55

Yeah. Like I want to be a pastor. I want to be somebody who starts a church.

Oh really? Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:34:05

Exactly. Exactly.

Lyle Phillips1:34:08

So we met in at our like house church gathering like our community worship nights on Sunday nights. Her friend brought her. I met her and I was like, "Okay, like obviously I thought she was beautiful and she goes back to California. This was the day and age of Skype and and and before there was a Facebook Messenger, but there was Facebook and I just sent her a message." I was very honest. I was very direct. I said, "Hey, like I enjoyed meeting you. I I think you're an amazing person and you're beautiful and I would love the opportunity to get to know you.

Maybe we could have a coffee on Skype."

And she accepted that and and that's how we started talking.

Dang. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:34:49

Yes. Cuz my wife is as pure as the driven snow, brother.

Lyle Phillips1:35:02

Yeah. That's my wife very much the same, bro.

Lyle Phillips1:35:06

Yeah, she grew up here in Nashville.

Lyle Phillips1:35:08

Yeah. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:35:10

She was in Northern California.

Lyle Phillips1:35:21

Yeah. So, she said, "Well, I'm going to move back to Nashville as soon as I finish school cuz cuz we're getting serious now and I'm going to move back home and we're going to figure it out and get engaged." So, we did. And uh we got married in 2013. And then for the next couple of years, like we we we were trying to figure out how to establish a church. We had no idea what we were doing. I obviously had no background in church planting. I had background in mission.

Lyle Phillips1:35:55

Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So, that's how we started and we didn't know what we were doing. In 2016, our church got started here in Nashville. And it was in September of 2016, we started. And we started in East Nashville. And there was an older church that was kind of closing down. And so, they just gave us their building. And they said, "We're going to join in with you guys."

Lyle Phillips1:36:22

That's right. Yeah. Small congregation.

How many people?

12 people.

Lyle Phillips1:36:30

Barely getting by because on the HVAC

Lyle Phillips1:36:42

Unless you're a part of a denomination. So Protestants do have denominations which are just, you know, organizations that will sometimes like own the church facility, but that's becoming more rare and rare with Protestants. uh non-denominational churches seem to be, you know, what is on the rise in America. And so they're typically their own 501c3 organizations and they run it independently of any sort of denominational oversight. They may be a part of a network that could help if you got into some trouble, but ultimately you've got the authority to run your organization the way you see fit.

Lyle Phillips1:37:19

Yeah. Protestant non-denominational church.

Lyle Phillips1:37:26

We just simply mean non-atholic.

Okay. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:37:36

Give us the church.

Lyle Phillips1:37:43

So, we bring like 70 people with us.

Lyle Phillips1:37:46

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:37:51

Uh, four years.

Oh, so okay. So, you have a whole network. So, I moved here in 2012. My wife and I met in 2012. We got married in 2013. So, you know, she has relationships. We're doing this Sunday night thing where we're worshiping together. And this is So, then we we officially start Sunday morning on September the 11th, 2016.

Lyle Phillips1:38:13

Exactly.

Sunday was like 100 people.

Lyle Phillips1:38:17

Stoked. Right. So, this is not the right way to plant a church. I should say that. And because like you want to get training, you want to know what you're doing. Uh statistically, a lot of church plants close within the first couple of years. Okay?

And so one of the things that a lot of church staticians have learned is that it's good to launch big. Like you want to get three 400 500 people there on launch Sunday. So a lot of churches, bro, they'll spend they'll they'll raise from friends, family, other churches, other organizations. They'll raise two, three, $400,000 for launch day, right? And they'll spend 200 $250,000 u ads, uh mailers, um you see stuff on Facebook, Instagram, we're starting a church, we're starting a church, and bro, like if you're starting in Nashville, [snorts] it's so expensive to start a church.

So expensive. And then if you as a pastor, if you're married and have kids, you've got to raise enough money to take care of yourself while you're while you're in that church planting season. Yeah. So, a lot of pastors, bro, they live in poverty. Yeah.

Even though they may raise $100,000, $200,000 cuz all that money is going to, okay, I've got to rent a facility or lease a facility. Uh, you know, I might I might be renting it for the that Sunday or leasing it, you know, ongoingly, but I've also got to raise enough money to feed my kids. I've also got to raise money to get the word out. I've also got to raise money for uh any sort of materials that I'm giving away at the church. Maybe I want to buy a TV or LED wall.

Well, is expensive. Um maybe I need to pay a children's minister to be there for the kids. Maybe I need to pay an administrator that's going to help me organize the church because I can't just be a one-man band. Maybe I need to buy children's uh materials, uh playground equipment, whatever it might be. All this stuff goes into planning a church and you don't even know if it's going to work.

Lyle Phillips1:40:15

You you may really suck at preaching and your worship music may be really bad. Maybe people don't like it. Maybe they don't come back. Maybe they're not maybe you you're not ready to do this.

Lyle Phillips1:40:30

Oh, yeah.

And they're into it. They're rocking. Oh, yeah. Chris Rock. worship music that you're going to hear in the world, and I I know I'm biased, is in our city. We're Nashville, man. 90% of the world's Christian publication comes through this city. So, you got to think, the best of the best of the best worship leaders live here cuz they write songs.

Lyle Phillips1:40:57

Oh, God. Yeah. the but uh my my takeaway was like the church leaders are flying in a private jet. So we should say and you know I don't want to get into any trouble. I'm not sure that was a real church.

Did you see the documentary? Right. It seemed like and God I don't want to get in any trouble. It just seemed as though they were a cult.

Lyle Phillips1:41:17

And I don't know anybody who goes there. I just I not trying to like take pop shots at anybody but that seems like a cult. That does not seem like a real church. Right.

Lyle Phillips1:41:25

Yeah. And so like Yeah. That's crazy.

But yeah, I mean, some pastors and preachers, they do have private jets.

Lyle Phillips1:42:01

So, at this point, all I have to do is take care of myself and my wife, obviously. So, like we've got to earn enough money. We had just had a baby. Uh we had just had our second baby, actually. So, as long as we have enough money to, you know, feed the family and pay our bills, we're good. And then we had a children's worker that we needed to employ. and then uh a worship leader that we needed to pay uh to lead worship and then just whatever expenses to cover uh that facility.

Now obviously it was super run down uh w with all due respect it just needed to be updated.

Yeah.

Sound system sound systems are expensive bro

Lyle Phillips1:42:43

Exactly. And people don't give as much money as people think. Yeah. You know, people think, "Oh, people are giving a ton of money." Um, you know, Christians in America, more money was spent on Halloween costumes this year by Christians in America than giving to missions, like global missions, like helping people overseas. More money was spent on Halloween costumes

Than giving to global missions. So, I think people have this idea like, oh, the church is getting all this money. All these people are giving. It's really probably more so like Pareto's principle. It's a 8020 situation. Yeah.

It's like 20% is really footing the bill.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:43:22

Yeah. So, we just continue to build and a lot of people start to come. It's exciting. It's young. It's new. We're very vibrant and passionate and uh the way that we worship is very free and we create space for people to experience God prayerfully and his presence. And then I'm preaching and you know, I'm a I'm a passionate communicator. And so, our church begins to grow. we start a second service and um we just try to figure it out. Man, we really weren't good administrators.

Lyle Phillips1:43:48

And so trying to figure out how to grow the church was very difficult. But over the years some people stepped up. We had big donors. They helped us buy a new building. And now we have, you know, a new space in East Nashville where we're at and we meet and we have four services on a Sunday morning.

Lyle Phillips1:44:04

8 a.m. 9:30, 11, and 12:30. And then we have one service on Sunday night in Franklin at 5:00 p. And I preach all those live.

Lyle Phillips1:44:14

Every Sunday.

Lyle Phillips1:44:16

Same sermon.

Lyle Phillips1:44:19

That's right.

Okay.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:44:23

Uh about an hour and 10 minutes.

Lyle Phillips1:44:25

Yeah. So it's not super long because we got to we got so many people to try to, you know, get in and out of church. Yeah.

You know, and there's a lot of Christians that don't like that. It's like, ah, it's the machine. Why are you doing that? Why are you building that?

Lyle Phillips1:44:38

You're never going to please everybody. So if they want something different, we bless them to do something different.

Lyle Phillips1:44:50

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Lyle Phillips1:44:55

Do you take notes?

Lyle Phillips1:44:57

If you take notes, I found for me it cuz I'm a little ADHD, it helps me a ton if I take notes. Yeah. Because then I'm like, "Ah, you know, think about what he's writing down." and

Interesting

What what I'm writing down what he's saying

Lyle Phillips1:45:20

Um I would say that Protestants and especially non-denominational more Pentecostal style churches which Pentecostal is just an expression of Protestantism that I think would be categorized by the way in which they worship and also some things that they believe which is that a lot of the things in the scripture concerning the Holy Spirit are still relevant and present today.

Lyle Phillips1:45:42

So, not everybody believes that, but that's what Pentecostals believe. And so, that's the kind of church I grew up in. That's the kind of church that I pastor. And so, yes, we do have a format, but it's not so tight that the exact same thing happens every single Sunday. We we create space like, "Hey, let's worship and and uh we have a structure. Sure, we have a schedule, but if it feels as though God is moving in the room and speaking to people and people are being blessed as they worship, we may let it go longer.

Lyle Phillips1:46:14

That was like a holiness Pentecostal like very strict standardized church.

Lyle Phillips1:46:36

Cuz he got saved, he became a Christian into a church like that, but after some time he was like, I don't think this is the move.

Lyle Phillips1:46:48

I'm getting out of that. So, he got out of that when I was a teenager.

Lyle Phillips1:46:52

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:47:44

Yeah. Did you see Joe Ostein on the uh impulsive podcast?

No.

Yeah. So, they ask him these questions. So, he's like, I don't own a private jet. And the thing about Joel is he doesn't even take a salary from his church.

Lyle Phillips1:47:58

As an author.

Lyle Phillips1:48:00

You know, he sold all those books.

Lyle Phillips1:48:02

Yeah. So, like that's

I don't I and I don't mean to pick on him. But he he he's low hanging fruit, right? Because he's so visible.

No, my wife loves listening to he's he he just bro he's so softspoken. He just makes you feel good, you know? It's like he's a very positive like that's what like that's his message to carry to people. I think he's really been anointed by God, gifted to carry that message. So, everybody's different, you know, and there was going to be some people already they're going to be like mad cuz I'm like not bashing Joel, right? So,

Lyle Phillips1:48:46

Yeah. I think like what people have a bad taste in their mouth about is the people who preach this prosperity gospel, which is like the only way in which you have God's favor is if you are rich and wealthy. And so they take up like five different offerings throughout the meeting. Hey, it's time to give again. Hey, give this money. Hey, if you send me a gift of 99 bucks, I'm going to send you some water from the Holy Land. It's like gimmicky and weird and it seems so obvious that like, dude, these guys are just all about money.

They're not about sharing the truth. They're not about loving people. They're not about helping the poor. They're just about like fattening their pockets. And I think there's been so many of those guys over the years that have done things incorrectly that it's put a bad taste in people's mouth about any preacher that's on TV and has money.

Yes.

You know,

Definitely.

You know, so I think that's what it is.

Lyle Phillips1:49:54

That's that's exactly right. So the way we set ours up is we have multiple uh boards. So obviously you have to have a civil board which is um sanctioned by the government the 501c3 civil board that's on paper as the board of directors. So those people we call our trustees. Okay.

So, they're going to oversee the money. They're going to oversee acquisition of property, dissolution of property. They're going to be the people who keep us legal and ensure that like our budgets are set the right way and um everything's on the up and up and you know, just making sure that we're fiscally healthy and we abide by the law. So, that's our board of directors and they're called our trustees. Then, we have another board and we call them our overseers. So, these are pastors of other churches that serve as my pastor.

So they hold me personally accountable for the way in which I live. If at any point in time the board of directors or this other board that I'll mention in a moment give them a call and say, "Hey, Pastor L's out of pocket. He's up here preaching prosperity doctrine. This is crazy. He's weird. He's doing weird stuff. He's, you know, we saw in his DMs he's talking to women in the church. You know, I mean, all the things we hear about on the internet, right? So then those guys have the authority to come in and remove me from my position.

I if if they deem any allegations true and and and that I'm no longer qualified to lead a local church according to the Bible. So those people are that's a different board. They're called our overseers. And then we have our pastoral team which is another board and they're going to lead and shepherd the church internally from a pastoral perspective. So they're not managing the business but they're managing the community and the spiritual side of things. Okay. So those three those three teams would make up a well-rounded eldership.

That's what we would call them in the church.

Lyle Phillips1:51:43

Of course. Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:52:07

Exactly that that would be the thing if I was asking her that question like is your husband okay with this

Like is it good like are you guys good

Lyle Phillips1:52:58

So,

Lyle Phillips1:53:00

"Oh, it's great."

Lyle Phillips1:53:08

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, children's church today is pretty engaging.

Lyle Phillips1:53:11

I mean, it's amazing what the church has done for families these days of making it practical and approachable and relevant to your everyday life so that it's not like church is a separate thing that you have to go to, but more so it's a lifestyle that you live as a Christian of which church attendance is a part.

Lyle Phillips1:54:03

Yes.

Lyle Phillips1:54:08

Yeah. Yeah. And so because we have a lot of worship leaders who are also worship artists, some of those leaders are actually signed to record labels.

Okay. So, one of the ways in which our church makes money um is is by you know like YouTube ads just the same way if we live stream or put up music or whatever like you know we can earn money just like any other podcast or any other artist. So like if people watch us on YouTube then you know we can receive a check. I mean it's not a ton of money I know but you know it's it's another way to make money. You can put out uh music they can go out on Spotify, Apple Music, you can get paid if people stream it.

So, we do that and uh we're actually a part of uh Capital Records, their Christian uh Oh, really? Yeah. It's called Rethink. It's located here in Nashville. And uh we have a few deals with them where they help us distribute our um our music and then, you know, we receive we receive uh money for that.

Lyle Phillips1:55:02

Yeah, it's really cool.

Lyle Phillips1:55:34

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips1:55:59

Absolutely.

Lyle Phillips1:56:12

That's a really great question. So, um I think it was through Dr. Josh Axe.

Lyle Phillips1:56:17

No.

He runs a clinic here called Longevity Clinic. And then he also has uh a YouTube channel himself that's really great. Okay. He's an amazing guy. And so he was coming to our church and uh one day he texted me. He was like, "Hey man, I've got a friend who's in from out of town. He's moving here and I'm bringing him to church and I want you to meet him. And I was like, "Cool. Yeah." Like, "What's his name?" He said, "Nick Bear." And I was like, "Are you serious?" He was like, "Yeah, Nick Bear." He's like, "Do you know him?" And I was like, "Bro, of course." I'm like a fanboy.

Like I watch him on YouTube. I've been watching him since 2020. The hybrid athlete both.

He got me into running and lifting simultaneously back when the world was shut down with co. I was like, I can't wait to meet him.

Yeah. So when he comes to church, uh Josh introduces me to him and um and the first thing that that Nick says to me is like, "It's so good to meet you. I've been watching you on YouTube." And I said, "Funny enough, I've also been watching you on YouTube for many years."

Lyle Phillips1:57:12

He's a precious man.

Lyle Phillips1:57:39

Of course."

Lyle Phillips1:58:46

You were there at once upon a time with running. Yes. Right. And so like you know they call like IQ your intelligence quotient, the EQ your emotional quotient, PQ your physical quotient, but obviously all of these things in your life, bro, like you are dialed. You're dialed in. You're super disciplined. So like the SQ, the spiritual quotient, this is just something that you've never prioritized before. That's right.

So now it's time to prioritize it because you want to be holistically healthy. Yes. And it's amazing that you have a family who's already spiritually healthy. And so it's it's provoking you to a point of healthy jealousy, right? It's like, I want that. That's amazing. And that's actually the best witness for any Christian to the world. It's like, look at the joy that we carry.

Lyle Phillips1:59:27

Look at the joy we carry. We're living life in a different way. Being a Christian, some scholars would say, is a better way to be human. And I do believe that is the invitation of Christ in John 10:10 as he says, come and have life and life more abundantly. It's not about your life becoming more boring or even more rigid or disciplined. It is about coming into an abundance of life and experiencing life at a whole another level. I don't think Christians are people who push pleasure away.

It's people who experience pleasure at a whole different clip.

Lyle Phillips2:00:00

As a former drug addict, bro, like we know what it's like to be super high, right? And you get a certain measure of pleasure temporarily from those highs. The pleasures that I have felt and experienced in relationship to Jesus in both prayer and worship have been better than any high I have ever experienced through drugs.

Lyle Phillips2:00:26

Yes, sir. I think Christians are the ultimate pleasure seekers.

Lyle Phillips2:00:43

Yeah. And sometimes that's true. Most of the time that's true. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes like somebody will bring their friend who's like, "Dude, I'm looking for God. I don't know if I'm a Christian or not." And so the first thing that I'm going to do is invite them to become a Christian. Okay? Invite them to respond. Would you like to become a Christian? Do you want to commit your life to Jesus? Because it's very simple in the scripture in Romans. It talks about this is how we are saved.

We believe in our heart that Jesus is alive. If we confess that with our lips and we put saving faith in him, we trust in him for our salvation. It's him that does the work. We're saying, "I trust in you and I receive the work that you've done. I believe it in my heart. I confess it with my lips."

Lyle Phillips2:01:26

Yeah. I say, "Just keep coming back." You know, let God work on your heart. Like you belong to him. You're not on my timeline. I'm not your life coach that requires you to be different within a particular parameter of time. I'm a pastor who's simply continuing to hold open the door. If you want to have a relationship with Jesus, Jesus ain't going nowhere, man. He's right here. And if you want proof that he loves you, all you got to do is look at the cross. Because who does this without love?

You know, that's what the Bible says. Even when we were enemies of his, he went to the cross on our behalf.

I did everything that we would ever do wrong.

Lyle Phillips2:02:16

I think I think that I think salvation is an act of surrender. And I think one of the things as somebody super disciplined such as yourself, and I would consider myself to be somewhat disciplined, is like there's a there's a tendency to say, "Well, unless I can go all in, I don't want to do anything."

Lyle Phillips2:02:33

So, if I don't take this thing by the horns and pray and fast and read the Bible and read all these books and really get into it and start preaching and be this guy on the podcast that's like witnessing to everybody about how they need to become a Christian, then I don't want to do anything. But, dude, you don't have to stress over that. like Jesus knows exactly where you you're at and he's very capable of taking you on a journey that is fit for you.

Lyle Phillips2:03:29

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips2:03:34

Yeah. So I would say Christianity is not about your self-efforts because it's obvious that you're going to want to add to everything. This is my faith. I got to work hard at it. But it's not, you're not saved by any work of your own.

You're saved simply by the work of Jesus on the cross. There's nothing that you could do to add to it.

You're not saved by good works. You're not saved by righteous acts. You're not saved because you're a good guy. You're not saved because you're moral. You're saved simply because Jesus died for you on the cross, even when you weren't worth dying for. It's simply accepting that as a reality and putting your trust in him as your savior.

Lyle Phillips2:04:10

It's it's it's not about your self-effort. It's not about you white knuckling this thing and saying, "Well, I'm going to be the best Christian there ever is." Like, if that's the case, Jesus will make you the best Christian there ever is. Think about this, bro. Let me let me let me like I don't mean to preach to you, but think about preach.

So, like, whenever Jesus is walking the shoreline of Galilee to recruit his first disciples, right? Like Peter and Andrew, he says something to them, and I think he says this to all of humanity. Follow me and I will make you fishers of men. It's a very, very simple statement. And it's a recruiting statement where he is welcoming people first and foremost into relationship with himself. Whenever he says follow me, he's not inviting people into a religion. He's not saying follow this charity. Follow this organization. Follow this denomination.

He is saying follow me. Follow me. It's about having a personal relationship with me as a real person. And as a Christian, we believe that Jesus is not dead in the grave. Jesus is alive. He is present. He is Emanuel. He's God with us and he is available to be experienced right now today. So when Jesus says follow me, he's not inviting us into a religion. He's inviting us into a real relationship where we can really talk to him in prayer. And we can really listen to what he has to say in prayer as well.

So that's first and foremost. And then he says, "Follow me and I will make you see." Jesus takes supreme responsibility to transform you into the person you're called to become. It's not about me reading a ton of books or studying the scripture for hours on end. I mean, we want to do these things. It's not about me fasting for 40 days. It's not about me, you know, like I said, like white knuckling my faith. Jesus says, "I will make you." Meaning, if you're in relationship with Jesus, Jesus will transform you.

That's the way that it works. You're simply following him. You're staying as close as you can in relationship to him. And as you do that, he will transform you into, he says, a fisher of men, meaning your assignment. What is God's purpose for your life? What are the good works that he has prepared for you in advance? That's that's a quotation from the book of Ephesians. Like God has great things for you to do. And as you walk in relationship with him, then he will transform you over time and he will equip you and send you into your assignment.

And then he goes with you to do it because he calls it the co-mission, meaning it's a co-mission. It's a joint venture. And he walks with you and you have this amazing relationship with them. the same way Adam and Eve did in the garden in the cool of the day. He would come down and take a walk, right? It's like that's all God wants to do with us is be with us. He wants to redeem us, restore us from the slavery of our sin and help us have a relationship with himself.

And within the context of that relationship, he transforms us over time. It's a theological concept called sanctification where we're made holy by him over time and then he walks with us into our God assignment, the thing that he's put us here for. And that's really the original invitation. It's super simple, but Christianity at the end of the day, Ken, is actually quite simple. We're the ones who complicate it and make it difficult. It's just about having a relationship with Jesus who is alive and trusting in him to transform you over time.

Lyle Phillips2:07:17

Bro. I hope so.

Lyle Phillips2:07:40

Think I gave you the Gospel of John.

Lyle Phillips2:07:48

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips2:08:16

Like a little devotional.

Lyle Phillips2:08:38

That's a great start.

Lyle Phillips2:08:39

That's a great start.

Lyle Phillips2:08:40

Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?

Lyle Phillips2:08:43

Yeah. That's amazing. So, what value? Here's here would be my second question. And if I wasn't talking to you, I would ask anybody this. Okay. Uh is like what value do you place on the Bible? Is it is it like, you know, kind of God's suggestions? Is it like kind of a kind of an owner's manual where he's he's showing us like why we're here and what we're called to do? Is it something that is true, half true? Like

Lyle Phillips2:09:30

Yes. Okay. So, I would say this about the Bible. You're right in that men have written it, but they did not author it.

Okay?

God is the author. Men were the writer. They were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit to write what they wrote. And obviously, it happens over

Thousands of years. Now, what's interesting when you do some research on the Bible is how there's not

There's not a single moment in which one truth contradicts a next another. Yes, there are truths that are held in tension and different things that you'll read about, but at the end of the day, the Bible is a constant rhythm of prophetic promise and fulfillment. Like you'll see things that are talked about in the Old Testament that Jesus would do, and then in the New Testament, Jesus does those exact things.

Lyle Phillips2:10:26

So, the Old Testament is what we would call the Old Covenant. So this was the law that was given through Moses to the children of Israel as well as the prophets and poetry and all major and minor prophets. And so it's a lot of Israel's recorded history. It's the law of God that was given to to Moses and given to the nation of Israel. Um like I said, you have poetry and the Psalms and the Proverbs. You got wisdom books. And so initially the old covenant which is the way in which God would work through people his chosen people being Israel until the time of Christ whenever the new covenant is given whenever the gospel is for not only the Jews but also for the Gentiles.

So it's for all of humanity to be welcomed into a relationship with God. So we keep the Old Testament because Christ fulfilling the Old Testament has shown us a way to live as new covenant Christians coming to Christ. And now the New Testament shows us how to fulfill the things that were promised in the Old and we can live out the the full counsel of God, the scripture with help from the Holy Spirit.

Lyle Phillips2:11:29

Uh just through study. And I'm not really the best person to teach you about this. Like I wish I could teach you about bibliology, which would be the study of the scripture, but I would say like if you know Wes Huff on YouTube, but even if you just look up like crazy facts about the Bible, Wes Huff, right? You're going to see things about scripture that will blow your mind. They will absolutely blow your mind.

Lyle Phillips2:11:52

Oh my goodness. How many prophetic words about Jesus that he fulfilled? We're talking about thousands, man. Like over hundreds of years. All of these things written about who the Messiah would be or what the Messiah would do or what the son of God would do when he shows up. Every single one of them Jesus fulfills.

Lyle Phillips2:12:10

Every single one of them, bro. [snorts] So, it's amazing. Uh, I wish I could show you this chart. There's a chart and I don't remember what it's called. It looks like there's a rainbow on it, but it's how all of these scriptures connect to other scriptures over thousands of years by all of these different writers, 66 books, and there's all of these connections. It's so uncanny that there's no way a human being could orchestrate it.

So, for me, Ken, when I when we talk about the Bible, like what weight does the Bible have is that the Bible is the word of God. Yes, humans wrote it, but they didn't author it. They were divinely inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit to write what God told them to write. And then throughout church history, uh these books were selected and the covenants uh the the testaments were canonized and now we read those today as Christians and we do our best to apply those to our lives with the help of the Holy Spirit.

So I see the Bible a as God's word to to human beings. And so I see it as something that's not optional, uh, but something that is commanded that if we'll live our life according to, we'll live the best life possible in a God-honoring way and in a way that brings us a tremendous amount of joy because we're living life God's way. So when we go to church on Sunday, we talk about all the different lessons from the Bible. So you're basically translating your interpretation of the Bible in a in a palatable way for your congregation to absorb little bits and pieces of the Bible every Sunday.

Lyle Phillips2:13:33

Yes. But I would say like our interpretations cannot be cannot happen within a microcosm because we have to be able to interpret scripture within the context of community. And sometimes that community looks like church history. So we're saying, okay, the Bible was written. This is what was recorded. Okay, how has church history interpreted these passages? Like how did they interpret this in 100 AD or 300 AD or 500 AD or a,000 AD? And then we're looking at church history and we have, you know, commentaries and we have uh books that were written about particular passages and we have word studies so that we can examine what does this word mean in the Hebrew?

What does this word mean in the Greek? If you want to, what does this word mean in the Aramaic? And then you can consider how all of these scholars for centuries have interpreted these passages. And then yeah, you can offer your own interpretation, but it needs to be done within the context of the covenant community of the Christian church for centuries. And I think that's a way of ensuring that we do our best to interpret it accurately. It's not just me as an individual saying this is what I think the Bible means.

It's me within the context of the community of God aligning with church. And yeah, there's been different debates and things. And that's where you end up with the councils in church history where people come together to decide on, okay, what are we going to officially adopt as the perspective on these truths?

Got it. And and so over the years that happens and then they say, "Okay, this is here's the creeds now that we got the creeds." I'm sure you probably heard those growing up in the Catholic Church, right? Of course.

And so then you have like, you know, the Protestant Reformation, which happens 5 500 years ago is it's like, hey, you don't need a priest to have a relationship with God for you. You can have a relationship with God for yourself.

Lyle Phillips2:15:18

You know, essentially that's what that's about. like you don't have to just go to mass and read the hear the Bible in Latin and then you know it's like I kind of have an empty relationship with God that's um you know it's just characterized by my participation in the Catholic religion just I'm going to sitting in the pew and taking the communion

I'm not saying it's all bad I'm just saying that there's more for us than that

And I I think that's where you enter Protestantism I know a lot of people would disagree with me on this and I'm no scholar I'm not even the best theologian I'm just simple pastor doing my best to help people have a relationship with God and and do so uh with the Bible in their hand and prayer and passion in their heart to have a real lifegiving relationship.

Lyle Phillips2:16:02

I'm doing my best, man.

Lyle Phillips2:16:06

So, we have about uh probably 1,200 people that come every Sunday.

Lyle Phillips2:16:16

Yeah. So, it's not a huge church by by America's standards, but it's not a small church either.

Lyle Phillips2:16:21

Yeah, it's great. It's awesome. I love pastoring it.

Lyle Phillips2:16:25

The address is 901 Delbrook Lane in East Nashville. Y

And then uh South Nashville. It's actually at Aspen Grove Christian Church.

And we meet there on Sunday nights.

Lyle Phillips2:16:37

Yeah. Yeah. It's right behind Cool Springs Galleria.

Lyle Phillips2:16:41

Yeah. Super close to where we are.

Lyle Phillips2:16:47

You got to come, man. You got to at least try it out.

Lyle Phillips2:17:01

Yeah. Of course. I get it. I get it. But it's worth it, man. It's worth

Lyle Phillips2:17:25

Cuz we got the Sunday scaries, like you said.

Yeah. I But but Ken, I think honestly, bro, you're doing a great job approaching God. And I understand that like it's taken some time because this has not been your history. And what you did have as a background wasn't something that was incredibly devoted to to being a Christian. But I I think becoming a Christian is taking God at his word. And one of the things that he talks about in the scripture is uh the benefit of gathering together. In fact, Paul once says like don't forsake the gathering because coming together is actually part of the way of life of a believer.

And so I think practicing your faith doesn't necessarily look like you just working really hard at doing everything. It's just taking the grace that God has given you to take the next step.

Yeah.

Lyle Phillips2:18:43

That's right.

Lyle Phillips2:19:19

Yeah, I think these are the first steps, man. They're the first steps to just building that relationship with God cuz it's very difficult to have a relationship with God in isolation. Yes,

It's super helpful within the context of community and with the scriptures and doing your best to pray and ask God for help to apply the passages to your life

Because that is the best way to live is the way in which God has prescribed for us to live in the Bible. It's the best way to live.

Lyle Phillips2:19:47

So, we have to prepare to preach. you know, that will typically take anywhere from 10 to 20 hours a week because you want to really give yourself to the study of the topic, the scripture, the passage, whatever you're going to be teaching. Uh, in addition to that, if you have a staff, you have to lead that staff. So, you're functioning kind of like a CEO. Yep.

So, we have different programs in our church. We have uh we have outreaches, we have uh ministry to children, we have our worship team, we have um you know, small groups that are happening throughout the week, disciplehip programs. So you are functioning as the headship of all of that. So you're having to work with your employees to ensure all of these programs go according to plan that they're continuing to grow and be healthy and reach people where they're at. You're troubleshooting problems in the church. You know, you constantly got people who need help.

Like right before I came in here, I'm on the phone with somebody who's at the hospital with their father who has a surgery today. You know, so I'm taking that call. I'm praying with them. uh may have somebody else in my church who, you know, maybe they have a car wreck or have an injury. Sometimes I go to the hospital myself and I, you know, even though our church is larger, I can't do every hospital visit, you know, go there, sit with them, talk to them, pray with them.

You know, we had a young girl not too long ago that survived a suicide attempt. Dang.

You know, so I'm there at the children's hospital and sitting with them and praying with them and, you know, so it's it's really um it's it's more than a full-time job. You don't get into ministry for the vacations. You don't get into ministry for the money. You get into ministry because uh it's the one thing that you cannot not do.

Lyle Phillips2:21:16

You have to do it. It's it's you're so sure that God has called you to do it

And it's something you give your life to because giving your life to anything else just wouldn't work.

Lyle Phillips2:21:48

I can't wait for you to come, you know, and I I I can already read the comments of like certain people who are mean to pastors online like, "You should have said this to Ken and you didn't say this to Ken and you didn't say this and you should have brought up this scripture and you should have brought up that scripture." And it's like, you know, I and I understand like different people have different strengths and different people have different weaknesses. And I think that what um my strength is is like loving people right where they are as a pastor and doing my best to help someone take their next step with God.

And if I can do that for you, brother, then I will do everything that I can to see you take that step as selfishly and as sacri as [snorts] sacrificially as I can.

Lyle Phillips2:22:40

People are very

Lyle Phillips2:23:09

Well, I'm not selling you church, bro. That's I'm certainly not selling you legacy. I'm just simply saying like Jesus gave his life for you. He loves you, Ken. And uh in the same way that I found him and so many others have, like he loves you. And I think with a relationship with Jesus, like your life, it flourishes and you thrive and it's the best way to live.

Lyle Phillips2:23:30

Let's go, man.