From a Prison Cell to Nike Brand Director

Jordan Rogers2:21

Lot of bloopers. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess we're living proof that the bloopers can eventually become an asset, you know?

Jordan Rogers2:52

Of course, I think we probably have had u a lot of experience pointing the finger. And then there's like you get into recovery, it's just radical accountability, which is such a freeing thing for people. And I I like I made a video last week and I thought it would get un you know misunderstood as the internet misunderstands a lot. But it was like hey do you realize that having agency is such an amazing thing. You know there's so many negative people on the internet. There's always this I don't even know what Cameron Haynes's thesis is but I saw that that little nugget you were talking about about must be nice.

Yeah. You know and it's like yeah man you are it wasn't nice back then. you know, only you see is now.

But that accountability can free you up to say, "Yeah, that's on me. I screwed up."

And in entrepreneurship over the last four years for me, it's been just incredible to be like, "All right, if this

If this survives, it is on me."

Jordan Rogers3:48

And if it fails, it's on me. And that is a great motivating force. Uh where a lot of people want to blame everything. They got conspiracies. everything's against you. Oh, it's all this. It's some government scop. It's all whatever. It's always something that people are conspiring against you. Maybe that's maybe that's true. There's a lot of

Negative forces against us in the world. Like, you know, insurance is a scale. All these racket there's a racket everywhere. The airplane Wi-Fi doesn't work, you know, like it's all a racket, but like so what? Now what? Yeah.

What are we going to do about it, you know?

Jordan Rogers5:02

Which is what a lot of people do, you know. Man, I'm got a book in my bag. Uh,

Incredible young uh dude named Chris Young who's from Nashville uh got sentenced to life in prison on this kind of archaic three strike law. Spent a lot of time in criminal justice after my time 20 years ago. And I've kind of gone back and forth like, oh, it's all a conspiracy against people to victimize. And then there's also like, no, you have to take some accountability. And you do get a lot of chances. You know, I I got a lot of chances. The state of Texas

Gave me um some chances. And you could like two things can be true, which I think a lot of our social discourse today doesn't allow for, but like yeah, there can be some unjust like penalties, laws, whatever. They also I don't think want to keep you incarcerated. Correct. You know, like

That's right. No, nobody wants to keep you locked.

Jordan Rogers6:31

Is that a [ __ ] petting zoo?

Jordan Rogers6:36

I got to tell you, I'm doing a documentary series right now. We're doing pilot two episodes. We're working with Vice Sports on

Sports programs and prisons. Yeah. I'm really interested. It's kind of a fascinating melding of my life experience and my passion. I've been obsessed with sports since I was a kid. I work in the sports business. I work in sports marketing. I spent time at Nike and I also spent time locked up and I've I've like thought and and contemplated and done a lot in the criminal justice space. And so, uh, I've been working with Vice Sports and we're exploring like what are these sports programs in prison?

Do they have a positive impact? And and I got to tell you, I went to Oregon State Penitentiary. In fact, since you were up there with Cameron Haynes,

Steve Prefontaine, the legend at the University of Oregon,

Went to the Oregon State Penitentiary in the 60s as a part of a sociology class and eventually came back and started a run club at the Oregon State Penitentiary.

Jordan Rogers7:30

And they have been doing some version of that. They have like CrossFit stuff now. They have a Japanese garden. They have all kinds of things. And I got to be honest, I one of I think they had Xbox in there, too. And I was like, yo, are we should should I'm all for like I'm I'm you know, at points in my life, I've been really close to an abolitionist at times, but I mean, I know we need to have prison, but I was like, should we should they have all this?

Jordan Rogers7:56

It's a little bit it's a little bit too far. I agree. However, I do think there are some interesting things that they're exploring, which is basically like one way to, you know, we often just think about the inmates experience, but there's a lot of guard, there's a massive guard shortage, there's budget shortfalls, and a lot of times I think we're trying to make the guard's life easier. uh the you know anyway for a functional prison system. Anyway, we've we've explored some really interesting stuff and up there in the Northwest they're definitely trying a couple of things and I hope to find some answers on you know what can be the positive outcomes and you know what what could we all apply to it and what is a bridge too far.

Jordan Rogers8:39

Bro I listen to your story I was like you started 16 or 18

Jordan Rogers8:55

That is,

Jordan Rogers9:00

Oh, yeah.

Jordan Rogers9:08

Are you serious?

Jordan Rogers9:21

Well, they they do all these things to crack down on the inmates. Like in Texas, uh, where I'm from,

You know, it's like they won't let them have letters or mail and all this stuff. And it's like 93% of the drugs that are brought in are not brought in by the inmate. They're brought in by the guards. You know, it's like there's all kinds of stuff there. The

Jordan Rogers9:39

It's it's rough. But you are I'm sympathetic to a degree. You know, you're putting people in a gladi. The reason that it's so shocking to say that you started at 18, cuz we all know what that implies, like it's this gladiator farm. It is like

Jordan Rogers10:05

It's dark, dude.

Jordan Rogers10:21

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers11:06

Never been so happy to see federal marshals.

Dude, that's the reality.

Jordan Rogers11:08

I grew up in Dallas, Texas, where I live now. I had a good middle class childhood. I have a I realized, you know, we talk about incarceration and all this stuff, like I had a present and positive father, which puts me ahead of 86% of the

Jordan Rogers11:27

Yep. Uh

Jordan Rogers11:29

Yes. Obsessed with sports. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Jordan Rogers13:21

I Yeah. played, you know, soccer, baseball, basketball, football for one year. You know, I don't know if anybody can tell by looking at me. I'm not really cut out for football, but uh which is tough in Dallas, Texas. And, you know, showed some promise in golf. Uh but that wasn't, you know, exciting. I wanted to play basketball. Yeah.

And so,

It's kind of a game of musical chairs. I was like in big public schools down in Dallas. And so by the time you reach 13 or junior high, you need you have to specialize basically. And so if you're not one of the best 15 kids to make the team out of I don't know, you're choosing 500 or a thousand kids in my graduating class, you're not going to play. And

Jordan Rogers14:20

Yeah,

Jordan Rogers14:21

I know. It's really I mean there's trade-offs to everywhere. But, uh, one of the things that I realized, you know, like kind of the bigger city school situation is, yeah, you may get weeded out or you may have to try, you know, there's a whole sports conversation there, but

But I feel like there were two cultural forces that were actually colliding at the time, which which you can um, relate to. There was one of sport specialization where it was kind of like, okay, you're going to have to pick. And I remember I made a club soccer team uh, went out and tried out and my parents sat me down. appreciate them doing that, but they were like, "Hey, this is expensive. Uh, it's an investment. We're willing to invest and we will support you in this, but this is basically going to be your whole life now.

You're going to be traveling. You're probably going to have to give up basketball. You're going to have to give up your other sports." And at the time, I was just like, I don't I don't know that I love it that much. Like, I I you know, I kind of like all the other stuff. And so, I wanted to play the other sports. So, I then focused on basketball. But unlike now that like work ethic and that kind of I was highly competitive without the practice me mentality, you know, sort of had the Allen Iverson mentality too early.

And um so, you know, like didn't make the team in seventh grade and then was like, "Oh, all right. Well, they probably just made a a mistake." And I continued to lower the goal and dunk with my friends all summer and then like went back thinking that they just made a mistake and then didn't make it again. And so here I was in this kind of game of musical chairs where I had picked and then there was not a seat left for me. I couldn't go back to something like golf.

I couldn't go back to that soccer because the it kind of moved on without me.

And so there I am at 14. I've spent my whole childhood with all the, you know, Nike athletes, most most, you know, sports stars on my wall. Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Ken Griffey Jr., You know, Tiger Woods had not hit the scene yet. So, golf wasn't cool yet. And I desperately wanted to be cool.

Jordan Rogers16:22

And so, I am sitting there at 14. I have no positive outlet now. I'm not going to practices every day. I'm not playing multiple sports. And you're at that phase of adolescence where you're just so uncomfortable, so awkward, going through changes, going through heartbreaks, chasing girls, not getting them, getting them, not you know, whatever. like all of that body's growing, everything's changing. It just the the height of discomfort and unfortunately then the rise of the opioid epidemic is coming and this uh you know heroin starts to come from u Mexico and I'm in Texas and there's something called chiva which is like snortable heroin.

It made the cover of like 2020. It was on um it was on like Time magazine. So what happened was

They started making blacktar heroin. Yep.

In a powder. Well, they would mix it up. Originally, it was with this um drug called Dorman, which was a sleeping pill. And they would grind it up and mix it up and then it was like basically like a brownish whitish powder

That you could snort, not like China White heroin, which was like pure powder form. Um it was this new kind of version for Mexico. And it started to reach a different demographic, kind of like the opioid. So it was reaching a kid like me who was middle class, you know, not on like the street in, you know, Philadelphia or something, you know, shooting up behind a in some dark alley somewhere. And so you could snort it, so it seemed less bad.

Jordan Rogers17:52

And uh that got me pretty quick. And so

Jordan Rogers17:59

What?

Yes, dude.

Jordan Rogers18:01

It's insane.

Jordan Rogers18:20

That's how I felt.

Jordan Rogers18:45

I heard you telling uh Darren Waller that you like had a pharmacy like you would buy a thousand pills at a time. I was like man that's one of the perks no no pun intended I guess to to like being on Wall Street and being able to you know actually have funds uh might have almost killed you but

Jordan Rogers19:32

I mean I remember like I remember getting drunk for the first time 13 or 14 and just being like oh like you know you hear this in all the meetings you know of alcoholics or addicts and it was like oh yeah like this now I feel okay. Like

I actually could exhale for once. like, you know, I was always so concerned with

What everybody thought, whether I fit in, was I good enough, was I cool enough, was uh, you know, that was I going to be able to get that girl, you know, there was so much going on. And um, so yeah, the first time I tried heroin, I just came up and it was just like, oh yeah, like that was

Jordan Rogers20:11

Man. So I had a buddy who an acquaintance, I'll say. Um, I have always been just a massive social butterfly, you know? So, like when I'm getting ready for this trip, I fired you an email yesterday just like I'm like, "Who do I know in Nashville? Who should I connect with?" I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Can hit me up a couple months ago. Like, let me see if he's around like Hail Mary. Hey, what are you doing tomorrow or Wednesday? I got time."

And so, you know, I always I was friends with everybody, you know. I was friends with the the black dudes. I was friends with the skaters. I was friends with the football players, the basketball players, the the Cowboys. Like I would go keg parties with the Cowboys.

I would go do drugs with the skaters, you know. I would hang out with the athletes, smoke weed with, you know, whoever. And um

So I had this dude, you know, these skater dudes who kind of, you know, I look back now at terrible home lives, you know, no supervision whatsoever. Like everybody knew they were bad news and in trouble, but I don't know, I liked them. I got along with them. Um, and so I went over this dude's house and he had this uh what's I saw him like snorting something and coming up and I was at that point where I was like experimenting with everything. Smoking weed, trying pills, taking ecstasy, doing acid, taking shroom, whatever it was.

We would try everything

And so I was just like, "Yo, what's that?" Like he looked like he was really relaxed and

Uh and I was like, "Let me try that." You know, [snorts] and so tried it out on the hood of his car one night and never looked back really. Did you get sick?

Um, yeah, we puked. Yeah. Uh, that was almost a regular occurrence back then. Really? You would get Yeah, we would get sick from the opiates and whatever.

Jordan Rogers21:51

I got really It was just wild now like how I look back, you know? It was just wild how you look back on like what was normal back then. I just puke all the time. I mean, it was just like a normal, you know, whether I was drinking too much or like taking too much cough syrup or every time I shot cocaine, I would puke almost instantly. I could barely get the needle out my arm before I'd like yak. I have done coke a couple when

Jordan Rogers22:17

Yeah, totally.

Jordan Rogers22:22

I hope I don't die. Uh, and you know, and I was so thrown off by the end of it that it would be like, oh, I need to Oh, shoot. Dude, I better get some heroin to come down,

You know, cuz I'm too hot. I mean, anyway, it was it was wild, bro. I didn't even like coke. I don't like I didn't like stimulants.

To this day, I'm still very sensitive to stimulant anything.

Jordan Rogers23:06

It is the worst when you see that sun come up and it's just like it just exposes all of the darkness in your soul in your life.

Jordan Rogers23:44

My wife is in recovery too. We met in recovery and we we just look at each other all the time. I'm like are you freaking kidding me? Like

Jordan Rogers23:50

Insane man. So

Uh even in the midst of you know it's been a hard year. She had she had a spinal fusion um this year and has had a lot of medical just bad luck over the last few years. But

Jordan Rogers24:09

Sorry. How long has that been?

Jordan Rogers24:24

It was horrible. Oh yeah. We have several friends who've been dealing with that. It's just a lot, man. There's a lot

Happening in this world. I think we've been acutely aware of that with, you know, certain circumstances been happening around us and all that and of course always reflecting on the past. And so I'm just like, you know, entrepreneurship has been a grind in the first couple years and this year it's been a lot better for me. And so anyway, my health I feel better than ever. I feel anyway very fortunate in light of these convers. I'm I'm certainly glad I'm not [ __ ] seeing the sun, dude.

Jordan Rogers25:16

I know.

Uh my wife and I, you know, say that now. uh you know our kid unfortunately for them that we you know we pulled almost every trigger in

Jordan Rogers25:28

I think my parents did the best they could with what they had and the knowledge there no parent um you know they they were hippies and kind of dabbled with a lot of stuff so they had like some grace you know

And were like okay we know you're going to like try some stuff they were but they were like pretty conservative and not uh uh you know they had kind of turned over a new leaf. My dad was a little wild in his youth and had kind of turned over a new leaf and was like you know just a saint perhap you know in in adulthood and in fatherhood. And so I think they tried as much to be as understanding as they could while also being like that's not going to fly here.

But I think they had no concept nor did anybody that heroin was an option. So, I think they knew like, okay, maybe you're going to try some drinking, maybe you try smoking weed and stuff like that, but like heroin was just out of the not even a consideration for them. And so, I think it was a quite the shock and they're trying to navigate that. I mean, you know, we're one of the probably one of the first generations of parents who would be having to navigate that.

Something normally much later in life that people are nobody just starts with heroin, you know. So, um, yeah, they're going to be turned on to that much later in life.

Jordan Rogers26:51

Yeah. Well, I always had a job from the time I was 14. You know, I was a bus boy. I was a grocery bagger. I was a host at a restaurant. I was, you know, a worked at Office Max for a time period. I was a valet parker event later on. That was my favorite job. But, so I always had some cash here and there. And then of course we do all our nefarious activities, stealing and selling and you know all that pawning stuff and whatever.

And so

Um they started to realize they quickly started to try to get me help. I would try to go to like outpatient and we get kicked out of that. They sent me at 17 I went to like a wilderness treatment program. They were like this is really serious big intervention like we got to get you out of here. So almost missed my senior year to go to rehab. when when

Jordan Rogers27:49

God, that sucked. Um,

I mean, withdrawal just suck. I mean, just I there was just a part of my life and it just always I was just think I just had this flashback this morning in the shower. I'm like, you know, probably these days I'm addicted to my phone. I'm always listening to something. My brain always needs to be stimulated.

Jordan Rogers28:13

Exactly. I'm over here like fumbling with this thing. And I'm like, just put your stupid phone down. Like, you know, like, and uh

Jordan Rogers28:35

I agree. I've I think like in my second half of life, I've learned and an encouragement I have to a lot of young men particularly, but people is, you know, all of those gifts, these like God-given gifts that can be used for the nefarious lifestyle like can be used in the real world and legit business and connections to be for good. Yes.

Have you seen this 49ers receiver who left me dying all weekend with this guy?

Jordan Rogers29:08

Can you imagine if that dude all the energy that he put into scheming people? So, for those who don't know, there's this dude who created this fake persona, created a fake Instagram account, made it look like he was a 49ers wide receiver, and then was scheming all of these women through Snapchat, Tinder, all these social platforms, uh, and raised over $1.3 million, scammed at least, uh, dozens of women. Probably that's what they said. They said they're certain there's other women that they haven't found, but they have 26 now for $1.3 million.

All of the energy that this dude I mean I it makes me anxious thinking about it because I used to be a liar, bro. I was a liar and I I mean today

Jordan Rogers29:51

Of course how you know they're lying when their mouth is moving and it's like one part of the recovery for me you know getting into recovery is like sometimes to a fault like honesty and accountability are like my number one core value in life like authenticity and honesty. Yep.

And sometimes to a fault cuz I'll tell you what I think or I'm not going to hide stuff. I don't keep secrets for people like

Um I mean I'll keep confidence of like friend but like I ain't you know if there's schemes going I don't want to know about it and don't tell me about it cuz I I'm not keeping that for you. Um but I just think about this dude like

If he had put that into something legit could be a multi-millionaire.

Jordan Rogers30:40

A sled with the ball holding. I was like, there's not a football player on earth who holds the football like that. I don't play football, but I

Jordan Rogers30:59

I know. who puts I mean there's never been an NFL player in the history of ever to put his cleats on in in the parking lot of an NFL facility

Jordan Rogers31:12

Incredible. I mean, but you know what I mean, you know, people are just generally people are just kind of dumb, you know, or or I would say like people I think generally want to give people the benefit of the doubt. And I also think all of us your brain I mean there's there's evolutionary reasons for this, right? like your brain is just trying to like what can it outsource and not have to put so you just go on autopilot. So it's like a I don't know this dude gold chain 49ers logos okay I guess he plays for the 49ers you know like

Jordan Rogers31:44

Bro I know but I guess people don't know people don't know what a football player looks like.

Jordan Rogers31:49

remember I remember doing that. You know, I became a personal trainer when I got into recovery later after incarceration.

And I I remember like talking to God and then like convincing myself that like when I had all of this pent up kind of anxiety and energy when I wanted to go get high or I wanted to turn to some other you know bad behavior or something and it was like I need to just wear myself out you know so whether that was lifting and then cardio really helps like if I was trying to quit smoking like you know what you know what you really don't want is a cigarette in the middle of a run or right after that run you know so it's like as much as I can get into that energy.

Um, you know, it's it's it's less of like what can I not do? I think so many dope fines are always thinking about like, okay, don't think about drugs. Don't think about drugs. When you say that, what's the thing that comes to your mind is drugs, right? So, it's like, okay, what can you think about? What where can you put your energy and focus and attention?

And fitness is a great way to do that.

Jordan Rogers33:57

Bro, I got arrested for the first time at 14.

Jordan Rogers34:03

Such a child. I look at it now and I'm like, bro, what were you doing? Um, I was whing out, but I got arrested for the first time at 14. So, this is also kind of like to me like a little bit of

It was like the early wave of like I was catching the shrapnel from the war on drugs, right? And so,

I got a friend of mine and I were just doing stupid stuff like I heard Darren telling you like they were running around bashing out people's windshields and just creating ruckus, you know, like we would just do crazy stuff like that all the time. And I had I was experimenting with like different stuff and a friend of mine had rolin or aderall be now

And he wasn't he didn't want to take it so I was taking his like as speed.

Jordan Rogers34:50

And I had a couple of those pills in my pocket and we get pulled over for he was messing with some shop owner somewhere. They called the cops on us and they pull us over and

Jordan Rogers35:00

No. No, we weren't driving. We were like walking. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And they got like literally pulled over and got us. Um, oh my gosh. No, actually the shop owner grabbed him and would not let him go. Uh, it was wild. Actually,

Jordan Rogers35:23

Well, fortunately for this shop owner, we were both scrawny little fools, you know? But, um, yeah, I see some of these kids on social now. I'm like, dude, you just need your ass whipped, you know, like Anyway, so they got us, they separated us, they put us in this car, and they they gave us all these questions. Well, I know nothing at this point. In hindsight, I would have done a hundred things differently, but I am worried they're going to arrest us. So, I take these pills out and I throw them under the seat in the back of the cop car.

They they eventually like let us go and we scored because his parents weren't just happened to not be home that night. So this when the cop cars dropped us off, there was still there was no accountability. Like there were no cell phones or anything at the time. So like we thought we were scoffer. We shut the door. We're like, "Oh [snorts] my god, dude." Like hearts just pounding. We get in. We're like, "Can you freaking believe that?" Like, and then all of a sudden they knock on the door.

And they're like, "Uh, Mr. Rogers, we need you to come with us." And they arrest me for possession of a controlled substance.

Jordan Rogers36:24

Because it wasn't mine. I I look back and I'm like, dude, I mean, [snorts] any lawyer worth his weight, I I had that later. Uh, but I didn't know I didn't know all this stuff. And so, uh, got arrested, possession of a controlled substance, you know, got, um, in a lot of trouble for that. I eventually had to do all this community service. I was on probation. I was on paper [snorts] basically until I was like 18. I got several other like citations of like minor in consumption, minor in possession when I was at that time.

So I think that ended at 17 and then short of course days after that I would get in trouble again. I got arrested a week shy of my 19th birthday for possession of cocaine. And so I just was constantly from that first interaction with the law you you cannot escape the the entanglement and the web and the imshment of the criminal justice system if you are uh especially if you're in full-blown addiction.

Yeah. And so, you know, whether it's drug testing or whether it's like having to go do community service or having to show up to court dates or violating for this or violating for that, it is always something. So, from the time I was 14 until the time I was 27, I was basically on community supervision in some form or fashion. And

Jordan Rogers37:41

Yeah. So, I was uh I went down to Austin and I I like had a girlfriend down there and a and a buddy of mine and we a friend of mine had asked me to like get some I was going back to College Station where I was living going to a community college uh which was a very foolish endeavor uh and didn't last longer than a semester. But a friend was like, "Hey, can you get some co I say it now, like looking back like how insane that sounds, but like back then it was like, "Hey, will you just pick up some?" It was like, "If you will you pick up some bottle water at the store, like pick up some, you know, sparkling water."

Jordan Rogers38:26

I mean, yeah, what do you need? Okay, you going to hit me back or Yeah. Can we split? What? I mean, you know, just so that was normal. So, I grabbed uh I got some Coke. I I I remember getting a Graham and I look back and you know, of course, the one time this dude hooked it up heavy. So, I get the bag, I leave Austin at like, I don't know, 11:00 at night and I'm like, "All right, I go I I pull over and I bust out some lines and I do a big fat one and then I'm like, "All right, I'm hitting the road." Like,

Jordan Rogers39:06

Totally. Like Yeah. I mean,

Jordan Rogers39:09

You won't be falling asleep.

Jordan Rogers39:14

Yeah. You definitely not falling asleep. So, I hit the road and I mean like I don't know a mile later. I think I had like just hit the gas and I didn't realize I was going into this small town called Elgen, Texas. And they had like a speed trap like right there. dude pulls me over and I have this CD case with like lines on. So, I'm like, it had like just happened, you know? I had like a big water. I was like just going to like get on this road trip.

And so, I I'm like wiping it all off and it's getting I'm sure there was like white powder on the the floor and on my pants and I'm like I I don't even remember where. I think I tried to tuck the bag in somewhere and the dude pulls me over and you know searches the car, finds the bag, takes me to jail. It's a week shy of my 19th birthday.

Jordan Rogers40:03

I was really just at that I mean probably not to the level that I should have been but I was very disappointed.

Jordan Rogers40:12

I was back and forth. So at this point I was not. I was like, and when I say like at this point, I mean like probably these two weeks or this month, like I was doing like I was back and forth like I was trying to not and I thought like this relocation would get me away from like the heroin in Dallas, but then of course I would just go to Dallas, get some, go back, you know, like so

Um or find it in Austin and then and so

Yeah, like I mean that was the irony. I hated cocaine. I didn't like it. I but of course I was doing it which is just crazy you know like I hated the way it made me feel. I wanted a downer. I needed a downer and um yeah so they arrested me in this small town and I think they viewed me as like this city slicker.

Jordan Rogers40:56

And just hammered me. I mean dude they threw

So it was a I mean I look back I'm reading Chris's book right now and I'm kind of like I've I've made my peace with all of this stuff you know. I'm kind of like hey

I screwed up. I broke the law. I knew the law. I broke it. I didn't deserve to be there. But I also look back and I'm like, dude, what are we We're talking about like a pinky. You're talking about like a pinky like a a one of those tiny bags of like not full like a a little bit of like a thumbnail of of cocaine.

Jordan Rogers41:30

Tiny. It's like, you know, and I mean,

Jordan Rogers41:41

Put me in. Yeah. Take pictures like it's like me and El Chapo or something, you know?

Lay out the grim. You wouldn't be able to see it, you know? I mean, it's like [gasps] it's like a shoestring, you know? I mean, not even that. I mean, my god. Anyway, so yeah, I was upset. I But I I mean, dude, I was so You could probably understand this, but like back then,

I was in such a blender, dude. So, at that point, I've been using from 13 to 19, just constant state of drinking and drugs and getting in trouble and getting out of trouble and ducking the lawn and trying to hide and doing this and just like I didn't know up from down.

I didn't know what I was facing. I was facing 5 to 20 years in prison.

Jordan Rogers42:24

Well, no. So, that wasn't This was a first-time offense. So, they gave me deferred adjudication. They gave me 10 years of probation. What?

Yes. And here's the the promise though was if you finish, you can get good time and finish in a third of it if you do well.

And so there's a double-edged sword, which I would find out from all the jail house lawyers a couple years later, which is like

Jordan Rogers42:52

Oh man. Hey, if you actually want help with your case, you need to go to the jail house lawyers. Like not the courtappointed attorneys. you need to go find old Leonard who's been there forever. You know,

Jordan Rogers43:07

Ple it down. Uh plea it down. And yeah, anyway, that's a whole another conversation, but so I didn't even know any. So I was like, okay, yeah, we'll take the the deferred adjudication, but then what happens is if you violate on that, then they really want to throw the book at you. So they in in fairness to our point earlier, they gave me an opportunity. So they they did that. I screwed up. I went off to treatment. And then I went to California basically.

Jordan Rogers43:30

Parents, it was amazing. I would go back now 20 years sober.

Jordan Rogers43:34

My parents took my college fund and basically spent it on rehabs.

Jordan Rogers43:38

And so that, you know, turned out to not be helpful when I eventually wanted to be I mean helpful obviously. I Exactly. I would I would empty out anything to try to save my kids' life. Yeah.

So they tried that and I got a year clean out there

And then started shooting dope out in California and you know it went downhill pretty quick. Came back to Texas.

I I got in a wild goose chase with a police officer while chasing the dragon on the high like smoking dope on the I was trying to not shoot and so I was smoking it at this one point tin foil. Just nasty dude. Yeah.

And uh I'm like doing it on the way to work one day trying to keep some semblance of of control to like be well so I could go in, you know, kind of to your point, if you pop a couple Percocets, you're good. And this dude, this offduty police officer sees me. I get in this crazy um car chase. I eventually am able to like ditch it all. And by the time they find me outside my place of business, which was awesome. I didn't have it, but I thought I got away.

And like, you know, they they did they couldn't find anything, so they had to let me go. Sure enough, I go see my probation officer for the first time. And I walk in, she goes, I'm like, you know, I got some khakis on. I got my Sprint PCS like polo on. I think I'm like, you know, fooling somebody. I walk in, she goes, "Oh, yeah. Oh, you're the one who was smoking heroin on the highway." And I was like, "Oh, what?" You know? And so they like, "Yeah, that officer called me and told me." Um, yeah.

They gave me these drug tests, man. I would fail drug tests all the time. I've tried all the methods of, you know, Terminator Gold and all these drinks that you can drink, bro. I used to do the wheat grass shots

Where it's like you're drinking lawn like like it's like if you mow the lawn and and rung out the grass. Oh, it was so gross, dude. It was so gross. And

Jordan Rogers45:35

It was a trend.

There were like grass bars everywhere. Wheat grass in uh in New York pass. Oh, and and any of that didn't help. I mean, dude, I was such a dope fiend that I remember one time I went to try to get this. So, at the time, the gold standard was this thing called Terminator Gold. Was this big drink about this size and it was kind of gross, but it was the one that guaranteed to pass the drug test.

And so, I run to the store, you know, some head shop

At at like 9:30 at night because I have a 8 a.m. probation appointment the next morning. Of course, I haven't planned ahead. I run and I go, "Hey, um, I I need to get some of this stuff." Like, and I'm standing there at the counter. And I said, "Thank God you guys are open. Like, uh, I got a drug test in the morning." And and and it's like the guy's handing me this. I have the thing. And he literally pulls it back out of my hand and is like, "Oh, I'm sorry, sir.

I need you to leave this store in this premises right now. Uh, that's against the law and we're not allowed to sell you this." And I was like, "What?" Like that's the whole point of this thing. But I think they had cameras and like if you declared that you were trying to like beat the law, they now weren't. And so he was like, you know, hyper aware of that. And I was like, are you kidding me? So then it's like I got 20 minutes. I'm burning across town to try to find this place.

I find the place. I get to the the drink. I wake up the next morning. I pound the drink. I go to the probation office. I sit outside the probation office. And because I was so dopesick, I thought, I mean, this is how jacked up my brain was. I'm sitting in the thing and I'm like, "Hey, uh, I drank the whole thing. I drank all the water. I decide to do a hit of heroin to to get well before I go in because I was so sick." And I thought, "Oh, it won't get into my bloodstream." And I don't know what story I told myself, but it was like, "It won't be in my bloodstream by the time I piss cuz I'm going to piss here in five minutes."

Yeah. Of course, I'm pissed dirty as hell after I just paid $50 for this drink, which was like huge at the time, you know, just waste money on this stupid drink.

Jordan Rogers47:49

5 minutes, dude. I could have just walked in there.

And it's like that is shows like how sick and how twisted that and how out of reality I was uh to be there. So I they failed. I failed and failed. They sent me to a court order treatment center, uh, free world. I had to wait for 6 weeks in county jail. Uh, by this time I got locked up. I'm 116 lbs.

Jordan Rogers48:17

So I'm 166 today.

Jordan Rogers48:20

And I'm a skinny dude. I don't know if yall can tell, but like um so I'm 116 lbs dying with track marks up and down my arms. And they're like, "All right, we'll give you this one last chance." So I wait for 6 weeks. I'm in county.

Jordan Rogers48:37

Terrible.

Jordan Rogers48:39

Oh my god, dude. It was awful.

Jordan Rogers48:42

Yeah, I had a bunch of cellmates.

Jordan Rogers48:46

Yeah. So, so honestly, Ken, one of the biggest surprises to me, I mean, I wasn't like conscious enough. I think I was subconsciously really worried about getting locked up, dude. You know, like I was this junkie. I was prepared. I was going to have to fight all this stuff. And I remember getting there and this is like when American Idol was like peak, you know, Ruben, the big black dude was like on the and I remember like they brought me in and they open up the cell after I go through all the booking and everything

And

I go into the cell and all these dudes are there and it's probably like I don't know 14 other guys and they're watching American Idol which was the first thing for me. I was like, "What?" You know, like that doesn't align with my what I imagined like jail was going to be like.

And I honestly think I was so strung out that those guys took pity on me and they gathered around and I remember the first night they were like, "Bro, are you okay? Like you look like you're going to die." They called the nurse for me.

Jordan Rogers49:49

They came and brought me like Nutty Bars. And I remember this dude, this Mexican dude, I'll never forget. He was like, "Hey, bro, you need to eat something." like and he's like he hands me this this nutty bar and you know I had seen all the movies and and I was like don't take any I was like no you know I was cold and shivering and just like and in this jumpsuit and these freaking fluorescent lights and the peeling paint everywhere and it was oh my god dude and he was just like hey bro he goes he said something he's like this ain't the [ __ ] movies dude I'm not going to he's like you don't owe me anything I'm not going to I'm not going to hold this against you or whatever.

He was like, "Take this [ __ ] bar," you know,

And so I did and I that that started the process of me eating eventually,

But I remember the nurse coming and at that point I had been so, you know, I've been years through detox like one upside of going to detoxes was that they would actually give you some level of drugs like Yeah. medicated. They would give you,

Jordan Rogers50:48

Klonopin or Clonidine or what, like they wean you off of that, but at least the first couple days they have pity on you.

Jordan Rogers52:00

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers52:06

Really,

Jordan Rogers52:51

And then I was like

I was on the um clinical trials for Suboxone, the original.

Jordan Rogers53:00

I heard

Jordan Rogers53:32

I've heard,

Jordan Rogers53:34

Yeah, I've heard. And I somebody said that to me recently was like, "Hey, um because my wife was having to take painkillers for her surgery and they're like, "Whatever you do, like we're weaning her down." Like, "Whatever you do, don't take suboxin."

No way.

Jordan Rogers53:56

But people are on it forever.

Well, and and here's the deal. You know, this is a universal truth. This is a universal lie. You're going to pay the piper at some point.

Jordan Rogers54:16

Have to do it."

Jordan Rogers54:25

It's hell on earth.

Jordan Rogers54:29

You are paying the piper one way or another. you're going to pay it in your energy, you're going to pay it in that detox, like whatever that medicine is to soften the blow, then you're going to have to get off of that. Like,

Hey, at some point you're going to have to face the reality. And it's different strokes for different folks. I think over my 23 years of of recovery, I've looked back now and I'm like, you know, when I started, I was like heavy or, you know, eventually when I got into a 12step program, pretty like fundamentalist. You know, I would I I you know, first five years was right. I probably I thought I had all the answers and one sizefits-all and tough love is for everybody because it worked for me.

And I think I've just grown over time. Like I don't know, man. Every everybody's path is different. Every human is a multifaceted being. Everybody has their own different traumas and triggers and sensitivities and everybody's body is different. But at some point, the rinse do.

Jordan Rogers55:28

That's right.

Jordan Rogers55:39

I know it's so tough because you know I always say like the state of Texas ripped from my cold dead fingers the right to chemical peace of mind.

Uh I used to hear people in Narcotics Anonymous. I remember hearing this guy say, "I gave up the right to chemical piece of mine on March 20th, 2003 or whatever." And I thought that was like very eloquent and like, you know, for me it was like the state of Texas ripped that right from my cold dead fingers. And, you know, it ultimately saved my life. I I don't know if that's the right thing for everybody, you know. Um, I do think that

Prison and the criminal justice system is a blunt, hard object. And I do think for some people it traum I was with guys. I was locked up with guys who killed themselves, you know, who went with a sheet and, you know, hung themsel like. And I look back on that guy had severe mental illness and putting him in a, you know, concrete box with people yelling and screaming and other, you know, pe you know, traumatized convicts is not the thing that was going to help him.

Fortunately for me, to my knowledge, I don't have severe childhood trauma that I know of that like trick, you know, I was able to navigate that system, but I don't know that it's the path for everybody. You know, we all have our own path. So,

Jordan Rogers57:05

They kicked me out of that one. Okay. So, so as as I said, they gave me a few chances, but I I was just crazy, man. You look back and you think like, you know, all the phrases like what do you have when a you know what happens when you take a drunk horse thief and you remove the booze? You know, you have a sober horse thief and all that. Like, you know, it's like

If nothing changes, nothing changes, all that stuff. Like, you just remove the drugs and out. So, so my favorite phrase as I usually describe is like people think that everybody tells you like, "Hey, drugs are your problem. You should stop them." And if you stop them, all of your problems will go away. But for people like you and I, drugs are our solution.

Jordan Rogers57:46

They're our solution for life. They are solution for our

Anxiety, depression, all the problems we're facing, all the court cases, all the lies that we've been telling, all that. And when you remove the drugs, then you remove our solution for life. That's right. Now we've got problems,

Right? And so you wake up with a ton of problems and they just are these mountain of problems and like you, you can be on a highrise in Manhattan and you're like, all I want to do is jump off that balcony, right?

And for a lot of us, it's like I'm now crazy. I got to deal with all this stuff. And so

I was still crazy. I still thought I was the exception to the rule. And they eventually kicked me out. So now they arrest me. I'm stone cold sober. I'm 90 days at this point. I think I lasted 6 weeks. and they they said, "We're early discharging you. There's a sheriff waiting for you in the in the lobby." And I was like, "Oh my gosh." So, here I am now for the first time, not under the influence of anything. I'm 90 days.

Jordan Rogers58:42

I would Well, because I was acting up. I was chasing girls.

Jordan Rogers58:54

Standardizing and I was always, you know, talking to girls. I was like it was like little stuff

That you realize add up to the big things. So, for example, one of the things I got in trouble for is like I didn't tie my shoes. Uh I always kept my shoes like loose. Right. The laces like you know I would lace loosen them all up.

And one of the rules was shoes tied at all times. Yeah. And I would be like, I always try to interpret the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. And I'll be like, "Oh, well,

Surely that law is there so you don't trip over your laces. My laces aren't flopping out. I'm just chilling, you know." And they're like, "No, what's the what's the rule say, Jordan?" And I'll be like, "Well, it says to tie your shoes, but like come I mean, [clears throat] they're not hurting anybody. What do you mean?" Like,

Um, I would be late for late for stuff, you know, in just within the Oh, it would be like you you must be in your seat when group starts. So I would get there, sit in my seat as soon as group started. Then I would stand up and go like get a cup of ice or get some water just because I couldn't sit still, you know, and that would be a violation. I would tell them like how stupid their program was cuz I had been to others and I've been like, "Oh, y'all don't do it right here." You know, like I was just a terror, I think.

And look, man, I just look back here. Here's here like the long and the short of it is like I was a broken, scared,

Hurting, frustrated

Jordan Rogers1:00:13

Yeah.

Trapped in a 21-year-old's body

And kicking dope and still under years of now detoxing from drugs and alcohol trying to navigate this with all this with the law looming over my neck and just like what am I doing with my you know? So I was I was freaked out. So they they kick me out. I go to Williamson County Jail. It's a purple jail cell. I'm sitting in a drunk take in the middle of the night now and two guys are arguing over a toilet paper roll and one of them wants to use it for its intended purpose and another guy is using it as a pillow in a holding tank.

And at that moment, Ken, I was like, you know what, God, whoever you are, whatever you are, up above, I I deserve to be here, but I don't feel like I belong here.

Jordan Rogers1:01:01

And I was like, I'm okay, fine. I'll do it. Whatever you whatever you say. If I got to go to those stupid meetings, if I got to if the most fun that I get to have now in my 20s or my 30s is to go to bowling alleys with old drunks smoking cigarettes, then fine. I'll do it. I give up. I'm I'm good. Like, I got to do something.

Jordan Rogers1:01:22

I did. And now I was like seriously facing like 5 to 20.

Jordan Rogers1:01:26

And I'm like, you know, I gained a little bit of weight by that point. I start working out. I start running in place. I started doing all the workouts and everything cuz I was like, "Okay, I have to take advantage of everything positive available to me." And that means mind, body, spirit. So like the church people are coming, I'm going to that thing. If the group is offered, I'm going to that thing. If the anger management is offered, I'm going to it. And uh if there's physical fitness, I'm like eating, I'm lifting, I worked as a trustee in the kitchen.

And so I'm doing all this just to try to get better. Either one, I'm either going to be strong and be prepared to fight when I have to decide whether I'm going to freaking join like the Aryan Brotherhood or the Aryan Circle or like just fight on my own and just go at it alone in Texas Department of Correction.

Jordan Rogers1:02:12

Aryan Brotherhood or Aryan Circle? I'm freaking I mean I This is insane talking about this now, but like um that was that was the choices. No, but they were

Jordan Rogers1:02:42

So being part of the gang doesn't mean

Jordan Rogers1:02:42

And I was uh I mean I was trying to navigate all that, you know, listening to all the politics in there and there was already some of that in county that you know where I was waiting like you know black dudes over here and white guys over there which was like very antithetical to like I told you before like I always hung out with everybody.

I got along with everybody. So,

Jordan Rogers1:03:35

No. So, this is in county where I'm waiting, right? So, I'm waiting basically for weeks to see my

That's where the experts are telling you what's going to happen when you get the state. They're like, "Hey, you're either going to go, hey, you know, you go TDC, you get you, they'll probably give you 10, you could do good time, you can get out in three and a half if you do blah blah blah blah. You know, if you could get a set off, blah blah d you know,

Jordan Rogers1:03:54

Well, yeah. I mean, it's basically like if you're a white dude, it was like, hey, you go Aryan Brother, oh, he's Aaron Brotherhood or oh, he's Aryan Circle and oh, they beef about this and yeah, the Brotherhood does this and the circle does that. I mean, bro, I mean, it was wild to to be even I'm sitting here like debating all of that stuff. And meanwhile, I'm also like there's a there's a um I remember calling my parents. So when I got reviolated, they basically then charged me again with a a violation of probation, whatever.

And I remember learning that I could potentially be bailed out on that charge,

Jordan Rogers1:04:30

Yes. So I remember call I was like I thought I'm so delusional. I remember like so I got all this stuff together. I was like, "Oh, snap." Oh, let's go. So I like call my parents on the collect call. Then by that time they were like stop you know calling. We were charging us like a an arm and a leg to receive these calls which again is another issue in criminal justice. But

And I remember like hey guys guess guess what? And they're like what? I'm like you can bail me out. I can wait at home for this you know for this next court date. And they're like they just like laughed. They were like what are you talking about? You think we're going to come bail you out to try to like do this? Like are you insane? you know, like and they just hung up. And so then it was about me waiting and debating and hoping that my probation officer would give me one last chance.

So everybody was like, "Oh, well maybe you can get safe pee, but you've already screwed up a couple others." So this last thing, substance abuse felony punishment facility is what they she finally she allows me to do. And she's like, "This is your last shot. Otherwise, they're about to throw the book at you." So I then have to wait for another four and a half months

Jordan Rogers1:05:37

In county to get into safe pee. So

Jordan Rogers1:05:46

Yeah. I was a little fortunate because I was in a federal holding facility. So it was like a county jail that also served as the federal holding for Austin's like and there was a massive like the Texas syndicate gang was being charged on like a massive conspiracy and cartel charge and everything at the time but and I mean we're really splitting hairs here like at federal you get a little better food and a little better facility but like you know it's all still terrible nowhere you would want to be but yeah so I waited and then they eventually allowed me to go to uh substance abuse felony punishment facility.

So, I have I was It was a Texas Department of Corrections. It was a prison unit in West Texas that's, you know, surrounded by guard towers with guns and barbwire and all that, but it doesn't have but you're basically trying you're doing some of the therapeutic community stuff throughout the day and then you still have like a trustee job and you're in giant dorms for all the rest of the time and the prison guards run it. Um, but you have counselors throughout the day and you're allowed to do some of that stuff.

You know, [clears throat and snorts] therapeutic I use is a very loose term here. I think a lot of these places have been shut down because they weren't actually very therapeutic.

They're like, you know, shouting in people's faces and making you do kick and hehaul like a donkey if you do dumbass stuff and like making you clean cracks with toothbrushes and all this stuff. And so yeah, so I did that and I was like that's where it started, you know, when I was in that place, I honestly accepted my fate whether I was going to go to prison or not.

And because I got that opportunity,

I treated it like uh it was kind of my last chance. And so

I didn't know whether I was going to shoot dope again or not when I left, but I did feel like maybe I would, you know, if I gave it every everything I could, then I would have my fighting chance. So I took advantage of all the resources that they gave me. I did have some kind of moments where I was like, "Oh my gosh." I had kind of my first outof body selfless experience. My mom sent me her life story at one point and I read it and of course like the second half of her life story is basically worrying that her son is going to die.

And I just and she had this passage about how she was on her knees just pleading with the Lord in the middle of the night to just she didn't know where I was. cuz I was in a pink motel shooting dope by myself and all I at that, you know, when you're in your stuff, all I was thinking about was me and whatever and all that. I didn't think that on the other end,

My parents don't even know where I am. They don't know if I'm alive, if I'm dead, if they're going to get a phone call from the coroner or from the police. And so, uh, man, I wept for the first time, probably like nine months clean when I read that. And it was like a first, you know, I had, you have these moments of clarity, but it was one of the first moments where I was like, "Oh my gosh, like this has been

This has not been good and it's been hard on a lot of people around, not just hard for me." So, um, yeah. So, it was a total of basically 396 days exactly that I was locked up.

Jordan Rogers1:08:47

Um, and they let me out. They let me out on 420, which was ironic.

That's funny. and I went to Salvation Army in Har off of Harry Hines Boulevard in downtown Dallas. Um, which is not the portrait of recovery or wellness. Um, but I was there and then eventually started, you know, working a job and started putting one foot in front of the other, going to groups and stuff and getting into recovery and that's kind of where my life outside started to get back on track.

And how the hell did you end up from there to Nike?

Jordan Rogers1:09:12

I started doing all the push-ups and the pull-ups and like got really into health and wellness and fitness and I became when I got out, I kept that up and then became a personal trainer. I got certified to be a personal trainer and really love that and got kind of reconnected with that love of sports. And so, that kind of led me on the path. I remember the first time I went to Academy Sports to buy like some like workout gear and I remember getting this like Nike dry fit top and these shorts and I don't know like it felt like a [snorts] felt like I was like Iron Man or something like putting that on.

I don't know why like it just had this like I felt

Like I was going to do better with this gear, you know, and I grew up loving Nike. It was all I was like a unhealthily obsessed with it. I was always like a sneaker head. And so that's kind of where the it started to plant a flag on like maybe I want to go do this. So I went to community college, eventually went to university. I couldn't get into the business school because I didn't have good enough grades.

Jordan Rogers1:10:16

I went to SMU.

Jordan Rogers1:10:17

Went to community college for a couple years and then transferred in and got a degree in history. Thought I was going to teach and coach maybe and then I couldn't teach because I had a record. Yep.

And so that diverted me and I was like, "Oh gosh, what am I going to do? Am I going to go into sales? Am I going to this thing?" And I found this this job. Uh it was called this EKIN role. And my next door neighbor was a manager of a sneaker shop called Luke's Locker. And he was like, "I I came home and I bought a pair of Nikes against my will again." And he was like, "You know, Nike people are cut from a different cloth and you might be cut from that cloth.

You should go look up this job. It's called the EKIN role." He's he's like South African. the EKIN role, you know, I was like, what? And and it's Nike spelled backwards and it's this job called the EKIN, and they're brand evangelists who travel around and teach people about the history and heritage of the brand, and then about the latest and greatest in tech. So, like, if you're a gear head, they would tell you all about the newest like marathon shoe with the carbon plating and why it's designed this way and what this foam does and how they got there or whatever the newest Kobe is or and it was across all sports.

So, that's what I loved. And so I basically spent 4 and 1/2 years chasing that job.

Jordan Rogers1:11:33

So they're in all the major markets. So Nashville Nashville is probably on the border like there's probably been an EAN in Nashville maybe at a time like maybe Memphis because

So if there was one hypothetically in

Jordan Rogers1:11:43

That person would go around to uh Dick Sporting Goods, Finish Line, Foot Locker, and they would talk to the sales reps got

And teach them or like wherever you go to get your running gear around here.

Jordan Rogers1:12:04

Okay. Well, they would go to Shields or to Dicks or to wherever. And they would teach the store associates about this. Either get them fired up about the brand

And then teach them about the new stuff.

Yeah. Because otherwise, you know, store associates are sitting there, they're like,

I don't know, you might like this shoe or a lot of people buy that shoe or whatever. And so,

You arm them with all the facts and all the history and all the heritage and you hold events for a lot of them.

You go in and you do trainings with the stores and stuff. Yeah.

And then you go around to big events like say the New York Marathon, the Chicago Marathon, NBA All-Star Weekend, WNBA All-Star Weekend,

Jordan Rogers1:12:46

Exactly. You would that's exactly where you would be. And yeah, it's like this dream job.

Jordan Rogers1:12:55

For four years. I work in retail. I work in agencies. I volunteer. I do a whole bunch of [ __ ] work. I have no chance at getting this job. I do not have the resume for this. Um, but I was just kind of insane, man. Like, I was just kind of like, if I knew now what I knew like then, I would be like, "Bro, go do something else." like there's no chance you're getting this job. [snorts]

Jordan Rogers1:13:16

They eventually let me in. I I just kind of hustled really hard. I tried everything. I picked up a camera. It was the early days of Instagram. I just kind of made myself creative. I was like, "Okay, you need to take pictures. I'll take pictures. You need to do video recaps. I'll do video recap. I'll teach myself on iMovie." All this stuff. And so I eventually they eventually let me in. I made a short film with some film students uh on my story over my life through sneakers and shoes that I was wearing, not the part we're all talking about.

And they eventually let me in. That was kind of the thing that set me apart.

And so yeah, I got in.

It was a little rocky start like for me like learning the corporate world and all that stuff. And I got like I was 30 I think 29 or 30 when they finally when I got my first real job. Yeah. because I was behind course, you know, I was locked up while I was supposed to be in college and I was, you know, doing all that. And so

Most of my peers were like 25,

26, 20, whatever. And so I always was like a little bit behind, but I I describe as kind of being like a slingshot. I felt like I was taking steps back. Like I left with a college degree and then went and worked at the Nike factory store for like seven bucks an hour.

Jordan Rogers1:14:29

Working in shipping and receiving, which didn't feel like steps forward. It felt like steps back. But once they let me in, man, I felt like I was a a slingshot and I took off. I was able to make up a lot of that lost time because I had done so much of the groundwork ahead of time and I was so hungry and I was so determined to try to prove myself and I did not have a cool degree to hang my hat on. I did not I was not like a double major.

I was not a college athlete. I didn't go to a cool university like North Carolina or Alabama.

SMU is like cooler now. It was not cool back then. It still is not Alabama, LSU, North Carolina.

Jordan Rogers1:15:06

Exactly. Yeah. Which was a weird clash for me, but it was all good. Um, I learned a lot.

Jordan Rogers1:15:17

I was a [snorts] freaking hustler, dude. Um,

Jordan Rogers1:15:23

Um, so I would do stuff like some people would take pictures, right? They would take their iPhone. Well, I had gotten really into photography. I brought my buddy who was a world-class photographer, a homie. I would hook him up with kicks. He was also like an influential dude in the city. And I'll be like, "Come take pictures with me when I go." My pictures were just banging, like incredible. I would bring a guy who was a videographer who was just like incredible. I remember them. They sanded me this like Consumer Report profile and it was like a p it was like an old Facebook profile like old like original Facebook where he had like a little or like almost a LinkedIn profile be like

And they were trying to study like 17-year-old athletes. So they would have like it would be like okay put the kids picture here and then ask him these like 10 questions like what music do you listen to? Where do you get inspiration from? Where do you shop when you have to get this? What are the essentials in your bag? And I was like this is really dumb. It's like a word document. what are you actually learning from this? I said, "Hey,

Is there any way you could give me a little bit of budget? Like, what if we do a day in the life documentary with this dude?" And this was like 2015. This is before like a lot of Netflix. Now, everybody, every athlete has a documentary now, but like this was like early days of DSLR cameras and stuff. And so, I had a couple friends who had them. I was like, "Let's go do a day in the life with this kid and I'll create like a cool,

You know, 10-minute short film for you." And like, you could actually see this kid. You can see his closet. You can see his bag. And so we did it and it like spread like wildfire throughout the company and everybody was like, "Oh, wow. What is this?" And they started hanging all the we took all these sick like just cool viby images of the kid like and those became like this big profile, the consumer profile project. I did the same. They would hold like a little contest.

Hey, you do like a video contest and you can win a day in the innovation kitchen with Toby Hatfield. And the innovation kitchen is like this top secret area at Nike where they make all the coolest stuff. And it would be like an all expenses paid trip to Portland, Oregon to the headquarters, which we got to go pretty regularly. But I was like, "Oo, I want that."

Jordan Rogers1:18:12

Oh yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:18:14

Oregon's got it for sure.

Jordan Rogers1:18:20

Kid in a candy store. It was crazy. Just pinched myself. Like awesome. And I got to work I've gotten to work with Oregon since then. I love Oregon. They're kind of like my adopted university.

But um you know NIL has changed the game a lot now. It's just like whoever gets paid the most, but that's neither here nor there. So, yeah, it was amazing, man. And like

I would grab film. So, I was just a little bit on the cutting edge of this kind of where we are today with like social content. I was like an early adopter of that stuff and I just never I always knew like I could not rely on my resume. Like a lot of people roll in there with the Duke NBA,

You know, and like Yeah, I resonated with that with your story where it was like, bro, if you if you don't feel like you

If you feel less than in some way. We have to shed that eventually,

Jordan Rogers1:19:03

And it takes a long time, you know? And I did. I need to have a panic attack and all this other stuff eventually to like shed that.

Jordan Rogers1:19:26

I I believe that. I resonate with that quite a bit. I tried to like keep it under, but it was always like and the fun thing about Nike was everybody is like very alpha like

Jordan Rogers1:19:37

Competitive. And so everything was a competition to me, you know, like it was like, hey, we have this creative challenge. I was like, no, that's [ __ ] war, bro. That's like all out war. Like I am winning this. I'm going to win this hands down. like other people are going to show up.

Jordan Rogers1:19:51

For real. You know, I'm I'm getting film crews here. Like y'all are going to do a little iPhone project. The rules don't say that I can't go out and get a film crew, you know, like

Jordan Rogers1:20:00

Seriously. And so that just helped me. I look back now like cuz I left four years ago and and have, you know, been very fortunate to have success since I left. But it was

Jordan Rogers1:20:13

Yeah. know when I did that football consumer project that like struck a core with a lot of people and I was down in Texas and so Texas had a football marketing team and so they were like uh they they hired me to be a football marketing specialist. So I got on the marketing team and the brand marketing team and football did Texas and then eventually manage the central territory. So I got to manage like the Cowboys and the Packers and the Bears.

Jordan Rogers1:20:36

Oh dude, it was crazy. My hometown team like Dallas Cowboys like it was insane. like got to manage that relationship. Got to go to all these I've been to every sporting event you can imagine. Met all the athletes.

Then they brought me up to world headquarters to be the North America brand manager for Nike football.

Jordan Rogers1:20:55

I got to you know manage Odell Beckham Jr. for a couple years and like eventually I they through that

I was always into like the sneakers and the fashion stuff and so I carved out this role that like didn't exist before. Again, I think when you don't have the blueprint, you just kind of make up. And so, I kind of became like the fashion meets football guy. So, I would do the collaborations. Collaborations are real popular now, but at the time, like they weren't common in football. So,

We got to do a bunch of stuff with like Joe Freshgood, Heron Preston, Virgil Ablo, like all these big artists. And

Jordan Rogers1:21:26

It was insane, dude.

Jordan Rogers1:21:28

And then I did two years of Nike Women's. They invited me to be a brand director there for North America. I finished my career at Nike men's, which was primarily in basketball. And then um you know pandemic hit. And

Jordan Rogers1:21:47

If there was a business reason, not not for me, but reason.

Jordan Rogers1:21:53

Look, again, [clears throat] it's kind of like, yes, I had all the shoes. Um shoes would land on my desk, you know, to me that was like part of the the the the job was like you do this so that you can get cool kicks and stuff." So when you're in marketing,

If you're in like I don't know a lot of jobs people don't get the kicks but like in your marketing and doing all the events you end up with all the shoes and when you're in EKIN you get ridiculously you get the gear halls like the athletes do but

Jordan Rogers1:22:25

I know. Uh that's we were uh I I definitely had a lot of that.

Jordan Rogers1:22:34

Are you a sneaker guy? Like are you like running sneaker or you like the the like sneaker like fashion sneakers?

Jordan Rogers1:24:01

The only reason I'm keeping I have a closet full of Jordan. I don't wear mine, dude. I mean when I left I just wear like white Vans now and wear slides, you know. I wear like my cane, you know, slip-ons, whatever.

But I'm saving them in case my son wears my size, you know.

Jordan Rogers1:24:20

Same thing with both. Hopefully they'll be back into like style. You know, the kind of high top thing is kind of out of style for them right now.

Jordan Rogers1:24:35

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:24:56

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:25:25

Swing. Yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:25:28

What a waste, man. We got to get you out on the course, dude.

Jordan Rogers1:25:32

What course is it?

Jordan Rogers1:25:34

Oh, yeah. Okay. I've heard.

Jordan Rogers1:25:36

No, I'm playing the the Bounty Club tomorrow.

Jordan Rogers1:25:42

Oh, the Trouidor. Yeah, I've heard.

Jordan Rogers1:25:44

I've done Sweden's Cove out here. I'm doing this. Bounty club is this new one tomorrow. Anyway,

Jordan Rogers1:26:10

Green juice,

Inc energy juice,

Jordan Rogers1:26:17

Properties are wild,

Jordan Rogers1:26:22

Yeah, they're

Jordan Rogers1:26:26

It really is. Uh if people don't know about Discovery properties, go check them out.

Jordan Rogers1:26:31

Discovery. Hit me up. Let's do something.

Jordan Rogers1:26:56

Did you?

Jordan Rogers1:27:15

Cuz when did you move here?

Jordan Rogers1:27:19

So just the beginning of the craziness.

Jordan Rogers1:27:25

It is.

Yeah. I mean, so the Nike thing was it was awesome. You know, it was uh it was very cool. But as you know, I do think with a background like mine and with my wife and we had uh several miscarriages like trying to have kids and then we got pregnant finally and had a healthy pregnancy and that's when I got called to move to Oregon. And so we we decided to take it and we went up to Oregon. We had my son when we were there, then we had my daughter two years later and then COVID hit two years after that.

And so here we are with like a three and a one-year-old. We're in 1100 foot house in Portland, Oregon. And it was just like I had this dream job, but I by that point it I had hit I was almost at a decade and I just gotten to do way more than I ever thought I was going to get to do, man. Like I got to do national TV commercials. I got to travel the world. I got to go to London, Paris, Madrid.

Jordan Rogers1:28:26

Yeah. I mean, you know, not stock market, Wall Street money, but the thing which I feel really bad for them now. The thing at Nike for probably 20 years since the '9s, if you just took the employee stock purchase program and you took your stock options, once you became a director, I became a director at um, you know, a few years in,

You started getting those, that was your key to wealth. Yeah.

And so, you weren't going to be like the richest guy on earth, but you were going to have your kids were going to be in a great college. you were gonna have a nice house in the West Hills in Portland and you would have a beach house or a house in Bend

And uh you'd probably have yourself a little Range Rover. You'd have a nice Audi. Your kids would maybe be in private school and like it was

Jordan Rogers1:29:09

You'd be very comfortable. And meanwhile, you have a dream job. You're going to the freaking Super Bowl. You're going to wherever, you know?

Jordan Rogers1:29:16

Your kids have all the cool gear. You got the cool gear. You're like living it up.

Jordan Rogers1:29:20

just goes down constantly and it doesn't look like there's anything that suggests it's going to go up anytime soon.

Ah, it's brutal, dude. So, I feel really bad. I mean, I left

I sold a bunch of mine and I don't You can't time the market, people. Just time in the market.

Jordan Rogers1:29:45

Yeah. Crazy.

I feel um incredibly fortunate. So, I had gotten really into personal finance. Uh, so I'm very grateful for that. And so I had worked on really saving. We were then saving for one of those beach owls. I wanted a house at the coast someday. And fortunately, I had this nest egg and this like emergency fund and all this. And when the time came when I felt like, okay, I feel like we need to like I'm raising these two kids here. My wife is here. We have no friends and family here.

You know, it was really hard. It rained seven months out of the year. And I just kind of like I had done everything that I had ever dreamed of at Nike and I always had this entrepreneurial itch. And it often said when people ask me how I had so much success at Nike, I would say it was because I'm entrepreneurial. That's right.

Like inside a large corporation, though. So I just felt that itch and I just felt mainly that I needed to serve my wife and my children better. like we needed to get home

And I wanted my kids to grow up with their cousins who were in Dallas.

Their grandparents, all their aunts and uncles are in Dallas. I would rather live somewhere like Nashville. I would rather to live in California, Arizona, anywhere really. I don't prefer Dallas, but

I love our family. And so,

We moved. I had savings. Um, and I took a risk and said, "All right, I'm going to go try to figure something out." I think you'll appreciate the story. I was uh when I figured out we needed to do it, I was really terrified. I started to have that thought because man, you spend people spend so much time trying to get there

And then I think you like also,

You know, maybe something like Wall Street is the same where everybody on the outside is like, oh yeah, that's like the mountaintop like so, so you feel crazy if you want to leave it, you know, but I remember sitting there and I was terrified and I was doing this meditation, this Pelaton meditation one morning with um I forget my guy. He was awesome, though. Um, some of those meditations, dude, are trippy. Like, I I'll be like in a 20-minute meditation. I'll be I'm like, "Wow, that's almost like a hallucinagen." Yeah.

But, um, this dude was doing a guided meditation. And that week, uh, James Clear had written his atomic habits like newsletter, which I usually hate email, but I liked his newsletter. And the the question that week said, "If your best friend was facing your biggest problem, how would you counsel them?" It's a really interesting way to kind of take yourself out of yourself and then look at yourself.

And I was sitting there in this meditation sitting on my floor in Portland, Oregon,

Literally shaking at the thought of this like cuz I was just so nervous cuz I felt like it was like this reality was coming and I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And I'm halfway through that meditation and I have this kind of out of I that question pops into my mind and it was like I had this out-of- body experience where I kind of get out of myself and I have this huge flashback all the way back to that jail cell, you know, and I'm like, dude, if I were counseling myself, I'll be like, yo, snap the [ __ ] out of it.

Like, what are you talking about? Like, what do you mean what are you going to do? Like, you think Nike is the rooftop? Like, you think this is the mountain top? like of all you've been through, of all you've come through, of all you've overcome, like all the times you figured it out and you didn't have a plan and whatever, like you will be fine. You're going to figure it out. Like you may not know what you're going to do, but you are going to figure it out.

And it was this amazing like kind of talk to myself, you know, moment, this rallying cry of like, you've been through a lot. You're going to be fine. And that kind of gave [clears throat] me that push that was like, "All right, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know this is the right decision and we got to go." And you know, I eventually worked for them another year or so remote and then pulled the plug in 22 and went out on my own.

Jordan Rogers1:33:34

I had worked a lot, like I said, I worked a lot with University of Oregon when especially when I was in football. I worked with a lot of the college football programs. It had always struck me as really unfair that these athletes were not making money

Because we at Nike were making a lot of money on those college, you know, contracts and sneaker deals and tournaments and all this. And so NIL had passed. I myself had built a social media following. I had worked with the best athletes in the world. I had worked with a lot of these colleges. I knew you could get paid for keynote speaking. And I also knew I kind of had a crazy story, inspirational. And so I was like, "All right, I want to go into NIL.

I want the universities to hire me as like a keynote speaker andor a consultant if I can help these athletes build their brand because NIL is going to be this new opportunity for them to make a uh money and to get brand deals and to, you know, have opportunity." And so I did that for a while, a couple years where I went around, I spoke to all the big schools and really enjoyed it. The NIL collectives, you know, we don't have to go too far down this rabbit hole.

Eventually, what you found out was like boosters and everybody just figured out how to pay them directly.

And so like the brand deals help

Particularly the women's sports, but for the men, they kind of get lulled to sleep by these salaries that they're being paid. And so the schools, there's not as much energy and effort there. And so I've done a lot of different things, man. I've done keynote speaking, marketing, consulting, and content. And so this past year is basically mainly uh marketing and media. So I do a lot of golf [snorts] uh marketing, consulting, and then I do content. And so, you know, I do brand deals with companies, and I do I make content every day all around sports marketing.

And so I'm basically breaking down, oh yeah, Puma deal or if I had seen something like, oh, Reebok just signed a 50-y old marathon runner. Why did they do that? Like I would break down the strategy of that. Well, there's, you know, endurance is all the rage now. You know, it's like kind of all these other sports that are growing and they want to tap into this audience and blah blah blah. And so that's what I do now. And it's carved out this weird little niche that's been like, you know, um, what did I call it earlier?

Uh anyway, it's kind of like teaching people. It's not just like lifestyle content. It's like, oh, actual analysis and teeth to it.

And I weave my story in, you know, occasionally uh through that.

So, you know, people generally like that stuff. Uh so, it's been a it's been a crazy journey, man, but I'm still figuring it out and just putting myself in the place. I know I'm on the right track. Um, and so I hope to start, you know, advising for companies, getting equity in some of these companies that I work with and just kind of growing that way.

Jordan Rogers1:37:52

I'm with you. I am unemployable. I I mean once I tasted the freedom it's uh it's really tough. I mean you know people ask me about Nike all the time would you go back? I'm like not if I literally I honestly mean if they showed up with a briefcase for $3 million and said you could be the CMO tomorrow just tell them to [ __ ] themselves. Like there's no there's no amount of money you could pay me to go back to.

Jordan Rogers1:38:14

Uh I've done that. It's great. I think it's amazing for some people and I you know everybody always wants like some you know kind of like recovery earlier like one sizefits-all. Like is it better to be in corporate or you know uh entrepreneurship. I'm like I don't know. I don't know you. I know some people who probably thrive in the corporate environment. I'll never forget it's so funny because

One of my uh dear friends who I sponsored years ago, heroin addict from Boston from Dorchester. Yeah,

You guys sound exactly alike. And he was he had this sliding doors moment in like early recovery where he was going to go to Starbucks cuz they had great benefits and all this. And this electrician pulls him aside. He's like, "Dude,

Don't go to Starbucks." Like, "Let me teach you how to be an electrician. You can get your master electrician license. You can start your own business and when you go back to Boston, you'll have a thing." And I'll be, "Damn, this guy

Trained up under him, went back to Boston to be the father to his kids, started a business. business. He does multi-million dollar stuff now. He's got 35 employees. He has a warehouse. He's doing amazing. And um he told me I remember him saying I was de I was talking with him through it when I was considering he was like you you're not going to you don't understand this right now, but it's way riskier for you to stay at a corporation than for you to start your own thing.

And now I get it as I see like waves and waves of layoffs at Nike and a lot of other companies. like the risk there. You feel safer, but the risk, they just decide.

If your favorite boss leaves or gets let go or whatever, they decide whether you're a line item that's worth cutting or not.

And I've unfortunately seen it happen to a lot of I could see the writing on the wall. Like I was a cool kid at that time. I was 40ish, but I knew in 10 years I was going to be the old guy, you know, and they were going to put me out to pasture. Y

Jordan Rogers1:41:39

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:42:10

You got skin in the game.

Jordan Rogers1:42:21

I know.

It's been cool to see, you know, even just hearing you talk about that. I was talking with a friend last night um who is in a corporate job who was considering going entrepreneurship and it's so hard when you're on one side. You can't see, you know, I saw just a little inspirational phrase the other day was like, what if it's better than you could have imagined, you know? And I think in America, one of the things, look, man, I've been all the way in Portland, height of liberal, whatever.

Like, America sucks and it's all that. And then I'm like, I get on the other side and I'm like, I mean, dude,

There's so many ways to make money in this world. There's like, you know, you've probably seen a hundred and people. So, when people ask me, I'm like, "Ah, well, I do this and oh yeah, I did that and I did this." And it's like, I've just learned in the last four years suddenly like all the different ways you can make money. You know, you can bring people together and make money. You can broker deals and make money. You can do brand deals. You can start your own.

It's like there's so much opportunity out there. And I think people get so down and dismayed because it's like, "Oh, well, so and so is not hiring and so and so's laid off." I feel like

Some countries like uh I think Israel and Korea and some of these like have required service, you know, to your com. I think America's required service should be you should be required to start a company. Yeah.

For at least one year like you know sell a t-shirt, sell a baked goods like do something or in our kids criculum and school it should be like you should start a company. One it makes you more empathetic to businesses who you know are going through things or whatever but also too you just learn so much more about yourself, your resourcefulness, how amazing our country is and how you can learn earn money. It's it's just pretty amazing. There's a lot of opportunity out there.

Jordan Rogers1:44:08

Entrepreneurs

Jordan Rogers1:44:45

To the penny.

If you're between a hundred and like $650,000, all of our country has funded upon you. You know, like that's the people, you're in the no man's land where you're like 40% or something.

Jordan Rogers1:45:07

Exactly. I mean, and and those expenses could lead to more benefit. I mean, I I've enjoyed like, you know, a lot of times like at Nike, we had a generous expense account. You know, we would travel nicely. We would travel well, you know, stay at cool hotels and stuff. And even like honestly today it was a great example. I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to Uber out to uh meet Ken and do this thing." And it's like, oh, 70 bucks, whatever. I'm like, great. I don't know.

Knowing Ken will be will not be detrimental to me. I mean, it will be beneficial to me in some way. I'll there's distribution here with this media. I'll get uh business through this or whatever. Like,

You can start to view life through series of small u I don't want to say bets. I mean, but our culture is heavy on bets, but it's like, let's make smart investments

Uh that maybe they're not paying right now, but they're they're in increasing your surface area for success. And I think so many people get really dissuaded by like, oh, we're getting taxed and all that. And I understand that. But if you look at it from the other side and like the original intention of it, it's so that you have incentive to go start a business, to go hire people, to uh contribute to the economy, to grow the GDP of the country, to help your little town do better, to, you know, um employ people, to make something of the world, to have skin in the game.

Yep. And uh I understand why people get dismayed through corporate and and whatnot, but there's a beautiful world out there where you can start to try stuff yourself and start to understand how our country was set up. Uh and I understand there's limitations to that and there's criticisms to some of it, but go with the flow, not against it. It might it might help you.

Jordan Rogers1:47:13

About a few months ago, man, I was like I was flying I I got to fly on a private jet. my first year

And uh I was basically just like in awe as I regularly am of what's happened. But the biggest value that I realized is like this past year, maybe 18 months, I don't know, probably a couple years, like I do not work with [ __ ]

Jordan Rogers1:47:36

I never interact with one.

And even like had an a potential deal recently and I was like, you know what, dude? I don't want to put my name next to that guy's name. I'm not putting my name next to that guy's name and I'm not putting my name on that work because I don't believe in it. So, I'm not doing it. And I realized like how much I valued my accountability because, you know, there was stuff at Nike or any corporation like when something came out that was nefarious or that I didn't agree with

I couldn't say anything publicly about. I couldn't denounce it, you know, because I have to fall in line with the company and I just got tired of taking those little hits of my integrity. I'm like, I don't support that dick. I don't know anything about that guy, you know, like I don't, you know, I don't agree with that at all, you know. Um, and so that's been a real a real blessing and a benefit to this journey.

Jordan Rogers1:48:33

He's amazing, you know?

Jordan Rogers1:48:35

Too little, too late. You know,

Jordan Rogers1:48:53

So okay I got a question this is like I this is so random at this point but I've been wondering okay we reached the pandemic where everything got artificially inflated right Nike Lululemon Adidas Pelaton was probably chief of most right

Jordan Rogers1:49:08

Pelon

They might be I mean I love my Pelaton I think it's an amazing product but I think they're a victim

Jordan Rogers1:49:18

Well, I hope they do cuz I think they have amazing product. But does the mark can the market not factor obviously it can't factor black swan events, right? Like the pandemic

And I to me it seems like just a little short. It's always just like we need to see growth over each quarter no matter what. Like can it not factor in the price that like that was an artificially inflated time period and to try to hold the company to that standard in at infin item like for the rest of the you know history is not reality right or is that what's happening with all these athletic stocks or they just

Jordan Rogers1:50:15

Spikes and and dips, right?

Jordan Rogers1:50:49

Yeah.

Jordan Rogers1:50:56

Absolutely. Yeah. They get paid uh big time,

Jordan Rogers1:51:13

Man, I uh Nasim Taleb has written, you know, he wrote the Black Swan book. He wrote um this book called Skin in the Game and I just cannot like get it out of my you know, sometimes you these ideas like just infect your brain, you know, in the last couple of years. But he has a lot of stuff about that where we have a lot of things in our society today. Corporations are one of them, bureaucrats and government is another. Um journalists sometimes are people who have

No skin in the game. They only participate in the upside. And he he cited like you know the the the housing or the the banking crisis in 2008, you know, financial collapse. All those bankers had only upside. And

When the market went to [ __ ] they didn't suffer the downfall. You know, they um that's right. their salaries do not go to zero, especially with the bank bailouts and whatnot. And so, you know, he had a lot about just how like directly and tie our incentives and you have to have that skin in the game to your point about if you've raised through friends and family, if your grandma's retirement is in this business and you've got something to really step into and without it, you're just kind of like, oh, well, I'm getting paid either way.

You know, I saw that a lot, man. I saw this. You just see that in corporations a lot. It's kind of lz fair. I I get the paid the same no matter what.

This problem shows up on my desk. If it's not my problem, it's just not my problem, you know, kick it down the can.

Jordan Rogers1:53:05

That sucks.

Jordan Rogers1:53:06

That guy will figure out how to figure it out. No. Um,

He's he's a lot of things, but he knows how to money. That's for sure. He puts it I mean you know right or wrong that dude puts his his name on the thing you know like if you go down the naval you know tweet threads and all that stuff it's like you put your name on something you put accountability and and that's what Nasim Talev would say too is like you know you put accountability and when you put your name on something like it just starts to have

It just has more meaning you know and you're going to protect it more and you're going to be liable for the upside and for the downside. side and I think we're all better off when we do that.

Jordan Rogers1:54:06

Hey, man. Keep up the good work. Seriously, I appreciate the message you're putting out and uh we need it. So, keep going. Thank you, brother.