Episode · Jul 22, 2026 · 1 hr 22 min
From Bartender to Elite MMA Coach
with Eric Nicksick
Eric Nicksick is an MMA coach who learned his craft at Xtreme Couture after growing up in a football family in Las Vegas.
“But what are you doing during that time? If I can teach you how to put the car engine together, you're going to learn how to take it apart.”
Summary
Eric Nicksick traces his path from a football family in Las Vegas to Xtreme Couture, where he became the gym's first paying member. He was bartending and studying to become a firefighter when Randy Couture asked him to lead one grappling class. The class grew as Eric arrived early, prepared lessons, and took every opening. He learned striking from Ray Sefo, absorbed strategy from Randy Couture, and got his first cornering lessons from Dennis Davis. Eric says he made up for not fighting professionally with film study and by learning from coaches and fighters around him.
Eric and Ken discuss the risks of MMA through injuries and careers that ended unexpectedly. Eric urges young athletes to finish school and keep a backup plan, then explains how he balances Sean Strickland's intensity with the need to protect training partners. He recounts helping Francis Ngannou build wrestling confidence after his loss to Stipe Miocic. Training together during COVID and sharing family dinners turned their coach relationship into a lasting friendship. Eric also describes how conversations with Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla broadened his thinking about preparation, leadership, and coaching.
Show notes
Eric Nicksick never planned on becoming one of the most respected coaches in MMA.
He grew up in Las Vegas surrounded by football coaches, learning how to study film, lead a team, master the fundamentals, and separate himself through what Randy Couture later called "things that take no talent": being early, being prepared, and doing the work.
After football, Eric walked into Xtreme Couture before the gym had officially opened. He trained with world-class fighters, became its first paying member, and kept showing up. When Randy Couture asked him to run a single grappling class, Eric said yes. That class grew into a coaching career.
Today, Eric has coached UFC champions Francis Ngannou and Sean Strickland and helped build one of MMA's most respected teams.
In this conversation, Eric shares how he learned striking from Ray Sefo, strategy from Randy Couture, and cornering through years of saying yes to every opportunity. He opens up about the danger fighters face, why young athletes need a life beyond competition, how he handles Sean Strickland's intensity, and the trust he built with Francis Ngannou while helping him confront the wrestling and fear left behind by his first fight with Stipe Miocic.
Eric also explains how his friendship with Boston Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla has changed the way both men think about leadership, preparation, and coaching at the highest level.
Transcript
Made from YouTube's automatic captions and lightly corrected, so a few words and names may be off. Click a time to play the video from there.
Ken Rideout
All right, today's special guest, one of the nicest guys in a very hurtful business, the great Eric Nicksick. Thanks for doing this, brother.
Eric Nicksick
Thanks, Ken. Good to see you, brother.
Ken Rideout
It's good to see you, man. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I know how busy you are and uh now such a huge superstar.
Eric Nicksick
No, not at all, man. I dude, you guys are family to me and you know, I always appreciate the love and support you and especially Teddy early on in my career and just I couldn't be happier to be here, man.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, dude. It's It's so much every time I see you, I still get like goosebumps. I hope you know that. Like, you know, when you see one of your friends excelling at the highest level, like
There's one thing that you did, you probably don't even remember it. I was sitting in the front row at the Louisville card with my middle son, Luke. And the hat.
You You gave Dude, that hat has had they've had more fights at my house about this effing hat. Well, I got more hats than
Eric Nicksick
The little one
Ken Rideout
Cuz the youngest one who met Dana, Dana invited us to the Boston show. He sat in the front row in Dana's section was crazy.
He's obsessed with jiu-jitsu wrestling and loves it. The little one is the middle one is not really into all that stuff, but he likes the excitement. So, when he got the hat, the little one's always like, "Dad, can I wear the UFC hat?" Cuz he doesn't ask the brother cuz he'll say no. And I'm like, "The hat belongs to everyone. If you don't want to share it, you'll be the one who's not using it."
Well, I got plenty of hats for you, brother. Before you leave, I'm going to give you enough hats for the entire man. You're the best. Let's talk about your uh I'm dying to like explain for the audience and a little for myself is just to hear your origin story cuz it wasn't as a fighter and just how you became I mean arguably one of the best coaches if not the best coach in MMA and it's not disputable. You got Francis Ngannou, uh Sean Strickland, multiple world champions, and we'll get into all of them, but how did you get like we'll get into how you got started as a coach, but what was your ac athletic background growing up?
What sports did you play as a kid?
Eric Nicksick
I was a football guy through and through. I'm the son of a coach. Uh my dad was our defensive coordinator, defense high school. In high school? Yeah. So, I
Ken Rideout
Where'd you go to high school?
Eric Nicksick
I went to Green Valley. Where's that? Uh it's here in Henderson.
Ken Rideout
Oh, you grew up in Vegas?
Eric Nicksick
Yeah, I grew up in Vegas. Born and raised. So was my mom. So, um, a lot of family roots here in Las Vegas. But, you know, my dad, uh, both of my uncles were coaches here in town. My, my one uncle was a basketball coach. He's in the Hall of Fame. My other uncle is a linebacker's coach, also on the in the Hall of Fame. My dad as well. Um, he was the first non-head coach to be inducted in the Hall of Fame. Oh, wow.
Um, I just got put in the Hall of Fame three years ago for the school, too. So, um, around it, right? I was around coaching my entire life. grew up on the football field with my dad. Um my dad's uncle was the coach for the Steelers. Mike Nixon, he was also coach head coach.
Yeah, he was head coach for the Steelers. Uh Browns, he was at the Redskins, coached at Pit.
So yeah, football was um just in my blood, man. I grew up around it a lot. That's really what I thought I would get into was was football, coaching in football. My uncle that was a linebacker's coach, he got a head coaching job here in town. He was coaching at Elorado. When I was done with college, he hired me on as Where did you go to college?
Uh Utah. I was at a school out in Utah, small school. Um division, it was a junior college at the time. Now it's division one. But um we played for back-to-back national championships.
Ken Rideout
Oh wow.
Eric Nicksick
A lot of really really good guys. There were a lot of D1 rejects that went there or non-qualifiers or guys that were leaving. So
Ken Rideout
Like a onea would be like North Dakota.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah, exactly. They just kept moving up. Yeah. So it was Dixie at the time, then it moved to Dixie State and I think it's like Utah Tech now or something like that.
Ken Rideout
But they're a onea. So they would play like a North Dakota.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. Big. They were the Big Sky Conference for a little while and then um
Ken Rideout
It's very competitive. I always competitive.
When I played division three football in college, they would always say this and I know it now looking back or just looking at football in general, the talent is just is very similar at all those levels. Even division three where the separation occurs is in speed and size.
Eric Nicksick
Speed, size. And then I I think the the thing for me is I went division one first and then I left to go this back I was at Reno. Okay. UNR. But I think the difference for me was you know back then there was no transfer portals. So you had to move down.
Ken Rideout
That's right.
Eric Nicksick
So at Dixie thankfully we were one of the schools only small schools in the country that gave scholarships in junior college.
Ken Rideout
Oh wow.
Eric Nicksick
So we attracted a lot of really really good talent. So for example like Eric Lockhart was our running back. He was at University of Tennessee. Yeah.
Well, the guy starting ahead of him was Jamal Lewis. So, he moved to Dixie and then he went on to play at Louisville and then we had guys from University of Florida, Louis LSU, all over the world, all over the country. Uh, but D1 athletes, you know, so we competed uh I remember playing against Josh Heupel. Josh Heupel then won the Heisman Trophy the next year at Oklahoma. Um,
Ken Rideout
And you were a linebacker.
Eric Nicksick
I played strong safety. When I got to when I got to Reno, I was a receiver. Okay.
I graduated at 17. I graduated young for my age. I ended up gaining 30 lbs.
Yeah. So, from the time I I was 17 to 18, I was I gained 30 pounds of mass. I got recruited by Wisconsin, uh, Washington, U of A, some other schools. And everyone that recruited me recruited me to play outside linebacker, strong safety. Yeah.
At the time, I'm looking around, I'm like, there's no way I'm going to be able to play against like Ron Dayne, right? I got to go tackle that dude. Hell no. And, you know, credit to like Wisconsin to those those like at the time they weren't the Michigan and Ohio states, right? So, they were recruiting the projection guys.
Yeah. So, I remember going there and and it was all my measurables. It was like my foot size and this and this and then where what my age was.
And they were projecting me. They're like, "Okay, you're in a red shirt. You're going to be in the weight room. By the time you're a red shirt freshman or red shirt sophomore, you're going to be about 225 230 lbs."
Ken Rideout
And what were you at the time?
Eric Nicksick
180. So, can we
Ken Rideout
How much are you right now?
Eric Nicksick
Oh, 230. But that was the thing. I got into the and you know, when I got to college, I understood that everybody there was all state. Everybody there was all conference and they were all studs. So where could we separate ourselves from the guys that are already inherently talented was in the weight room in the film room and that's what I really took advantage of growing up alongside my dad and being able to sit down and watch tape and break down film and that was
Ken Rideout
You had like high football IQ.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. Needed it, right? Like I don't think that I was like off the page athlete to where I athleticism was going to blow the doors off of something. So my route running became very important on how to learn how to you know I I would catch the ball and uh you know when we went out to Wisconsin it was me Chris Chambers and Drew Henson and all those guys on our recruiting trip
And I knew right then I'm like okay there's a there's an athleticism that's going to be better than me where I I'm going to need to have to catch up is is learning how to run track and in the weight room but where I feel like I'm going to have the edge is the film study and and the and the football IQ, you know. So, um, those things were very evident, but at the time, I remember back then, it was like D1 was the only way to go.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Right. Looking back at it now, man,
Especially a maturity level, just just as far as being a young man,
Junior college is not a bad route for guys.
Ken Rideout
No, not at all. Get experience to get around coaching.
Yep. Yep. But to your point, one quick thing I want to comment on is I talk about this when I'm working with my kids, like they love football, so they're running routes and you know when someone runs like a crossing route and it's just like this kind of lazy rounded up front. I'm like guys, no one among us has any speed like Wes Welker, uh, Emmena, Julian Edelman, they're not going to burn you on a go route if unless they can fake you out, but they will get open because they know how to run routes.
Do the fundamentals like you need to get to the point cut and it has to be sold so that the Dback doesn't think you're running across
Eric Nicksick
Everything look the same.
Ken Rideout
So like that's a big part where you can really separate yourself if you don't have the speed. That's something you can do. But you had such an advantage coming from the strong coaching background that you know all these fundamental things and that's going to be like music to the eyes of the of of a coach who's looking at a prospect like this kid does everything right. And people understand that. When I was talking to the Bruins rookies recently, I spoke to their player development camp. I'm like, "Guys, I promise you I can sit in the stands without knowing anything about anyone or much about coaching hockey." I mean, I played in college, but I'm not I was never like a scout type analytical.
And I said, I can point out to Cam Neely, the uh president. I said, I I'll point to three guys that want to die to be on this team because they do everything right. And it sounds like you understood that from a young age.
Eric Nicksick
I'll take it one step further. I earned a scholarship um from a couple different schools just because of my ability to block as a wide receiver.
Ken Rideout
Perfect.
Eric Nicksick
The blocking Yeah.
Was was showed these coaches that I wasn't afraid of contact.
So, what it allowed them to see was like, oh well, maybe we can transition this guy over to the defensive side of the ball because he can catch the ball. Maybe he's not a blazer as far as a receiver goes in the Big 10 or Pack 10. I remember when Oregon came out, Jeff Tedford looked at us and he's like, "Ah, I don't know if this kid's going to be fast enough." But we can find a position for him because I was a head hunter.
That's right. But if the play was a run play, I wasn't taking the play off. I'm trying to take your head off. And this is back when you can crack back on linebackers and [ __ ]
So the All-Star game,
The All-Star coaches were from Valley High School. They were a primarily a run team.
So I knew that their playbook wasn't going to be deep in the in the throwing game that we were at Green Valley. So my dad was the first guy to tell me. He's like, "Hey man, I know you're probably not going to get the ball thrown to you a lot in the All-Star game, but you can go go and and flash on tape by blocking."
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
So Tony Nuome, who ended up playing for the Rams, he was a linebacker in the opposite opposite team. Dude, I took his head off like three or four different times, you know, because I knew like, all right, they're going to be watching this tape and seeing how you perform, [clears throat] but furthermore, they want to see what you're doing off the ball, you know? So that Yeah, definitely having those those coaches around me and the enthusiasm of playing football, man. I just loved every play. I didn't want to take a play off.
If I'm in, I'm trying to take your head off. You know,
Ken Rideout
These are like the gems that I hope when people are listening to the to the episode right now that like dads play this for their son and recognize like you don't have to be the fastest guy. You don't necessarily have to have the best hands, but if you're doing all the little things, a good coach will be like, "Okay, I can work. I can help him get better at the hands. I can He's never going to be fast, but I can that route running is so crisp and so sharp.
Like he'll lull the DD back to sleep like a like a West Welker and then next thing you know he's running a slant and he's gone for 20 yards because no one's paying attention.
Eric Nicksick
I I took a lot of pride in wearing the captain the wearing the C on my shirt. So I knew I set the tone and the precedence for the rest of the team. It's just like now in the gym I have no problem mopping the mats. Right. As the leader of the gym, if somebody below me sees me mopping the mats, they know it's not above me. That's right.
Right. So as in football, I felt the same way. Like I wanted my teammates to know I'm always going to have their back. I'm not I'm going to block. I'm going to take the extra risk. I'm going to do whatever it takes for us to win no matter if I'm getting the ball or not, you know? And that was what I really felt helped me get to the next level and find a place to play.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, that's what I love about you is like you have like incredible humility. Everything about you is like you're never bigger than anyone else. You're like, and I tell people this all the time when you get the opportunity to be around people like yourself and world class athletes. I'm like, we're all the same. this guy's the best at what he does, coaching, but your accountant might be the best at accounting. And the point is like not to lose sight of the fact that we're all doing the best we can.
And look, if someone's a piece of crap, then they don't deserve the respect. But when someone's out there hustling and grinding, it's guys like you that recognize like, hey, I just happen to be the best at this one thing. But there's a lot of other things I can improve at.
Eric Nicksick
Absolutely.
Ken Rideout
Coming out of college, how did you make the transition into fighting? And did you have any experience with combat sports?
Eric Nicksick
I did. I I trained a little bit. Um John Lewis was out here at the time. He was probably one of the first pioneers to Las Vegas MMA. He had a gym called J-seek.
Um, Sergio Opena was here, but Sergio Pñena really trained a lot of like cops, but like high level fighters.
Cops in particular, I feel like you have to know jiu-jitsu. I mean, you're basically going hands on.
Ken Rideout
Try to handcuff someone if you don't know jiu-jitsu and then get a black belt and he'll put handcuffs on you whether you like it or not.
Eric Nicksick
Exactly. [clears throat] Exactly. So, because I was on scholarship, that was part of the reason like you couldn't train like you weren't supposed to be doing those type of things. Couldn't snowboard, couldn't do this, couldn't do that.
Ken Rideout
Well, it makes sense. you can get. That's the thing about combat sports is like you have to engage in combat and when you do that you can get hurt.
Eric Nicksick
You're going to get hurt. So, um but that was kind of my my foot in if you will like I and at the time when Randy was traveling out to Vegas. Um that's where he would do a lot of his stuff with with Chuck Liddell and all those guys over at J-sech.
Ken Rideout
So, you were training MMA or jiu-jitsu?
Eric Nicksick
More jiu-jitsu. More jiu-jitsu. That's kind of was my introduction into MMA.
Ken Rideout
And you started as a white belt like everyone else.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And and honestly, that's still my mentality. Like it's just a white belt mentality no matter what.
Ken Rideout
But before we get to the next step, I just want you to emphasize the importance because I try and explain this to like the listeners and to my children is like if you are afraid to be the worst,
Guess what? You'll never be the best. Because you in jiu-jitsu in particular is a perfect example for all of life. Like when you walk into the gym, I don't care who you are. Number one is scary. So you have to learn to do things scared. But number two is you have to check your ego at the door. And remember this black belt who's making you feel like you're not even the same species.
He started exactly where you started. He just never stopped coming. I don't care what your athleticism is. I've seen black belts that you're like, "This guy has two left feet."
But he'll train two, three times a a day for years to get that black belt. So when you showed up, what was it like in terms of like you're a division one athlete, you're a big dude, you're like you're an athlete and you go in there and you're getting like essentially ragdollled by blue belts.
Eric Nicksick
So, um, Randy opened Xtreme Couture in 2006. He he opened the doors to the public February of 2007. Um, I knew he was getting ready for Tim Sylvia. I showed up one day, not I thought the gym was open, but it wasn't.
But they were in there training. And my first introduction to MMA was Mike Pyle and Jay Hieron.
Ken Rideout
Okay.
Eric Nicksick
Who, like, if you know those guys, I mean, they're absolute hammers in this in the in the sport. Both of them just world class welterweights. And at the time I was probably 230 some odd pounds. Mike was probably walking about 200, fighting at 170. And uh
Ken Rideout
Crazy amount of weight to gain and lose. I don't understand it.
Eric Nicksick
Well, the the day I walked in, they were just doing some more MMA jiu-jitsu, you know, like gloves on and stuff like that. I was more predominantly just understanding jiu-jitsu at its basics.
Ken Rideout
And you were a white belt at the time.
Eric Nicksick
Oh, big time. Big time. So I rolled in and just literally got my ass kicked by Mike Pyle.
Ken Rideout
So women, you walk in and you're like, "Oh, guys, is this open to the public?" And they're like, "Yeah, come on."
Eric Nicksick
Essentially,
Ken Rideout
I'm not, but come on. You can train.
Eric Nicksick
Literally, Mike was sitting at the front door kind of thing, like when you walk into the gym. And they were they were like putting tile down, like they were just like still like renovating the gym,
But they were about to start practice. So that that was kind of like their um their pay, if you will. They're like putting up the cage and everything else.
And uh Mike's like I was like, "Hey, you know, I'm just curious about when you guys are going to open and this is that." He goes, "Oh, we got practice in in like 30 minutes if you want to stick around." And I was like, "Okay." And he was really nice and
Um went in and they kind of toyed with me for a little while and then just proceeded to kick my ass and probably tapped me a 100 times
Ken Rideout
And
But thank God for a guy like that cuz you get, you know, fighting you could get a [ __ ] who's like, "Yeah, and you're like, that wasn't very nice."
Eric Nicksick
No, it's a great point because it was really that moment, you know, I was I was bartending at the time. I was going to school to be a firefighter. had all these things going on, but the one thing that I missed the most from football was the camaraderie. Yeah.
Was the team
And I felt that energy the moment I walked into that gym and there was literally only five guys in there at the time.
And um yeah, that was it, man. I I got my ass kicked and then Mike said to me, "Hey, we we'll practice again tomorrow at this time." And I think looking back at it now, if I asked Mike, it was kind of his test to see if I if I wanted it that way.
Ken Rideout
Perfect test, too.
And I showed up the next day and then I showed up the following day. and you're training with like world class fighters and you're a white belt. Oh yeah. I wonder if he saw something in you, even if it was subliminal of like, hey, the guy has intensity. Anyone who That's the thing about that like jiu-jitsu gang. You want to be in this gang? The only price of admission is effort and attitude and they'll take care of you.
Eric Nicksick
No, you nailed it. And I think that looking back at it now, knowing, you know, being 20 years in the sport, I see now what they were putting me through and why they wanted to see if I was going to show back up the next day, you know, and take that ass whooping again. And I did. And and I I was too stupid to to say no, but I loved it, you know, and I loved the vibe, the energy, and and it was a it was a group of men looking to achieve a common goal and helping one another and all these things.
I was like, "Ah, this is what I need."
And um that was really it, man. I was there. I I was literally member number one at Xtreme Couture. So when the gym opened, I'm the I'm like in the database, the first the first member.
Ken Rideout
First paying member.
Eric Nicksick
First paying member. Um so great.
And about a year goes by. It was literally a year. Randy had a class. It was a It was like 11:00 a.m. on a Friday and the coach didn't show up. And Randy goes, "Yo, I need you to run this class for me." I said, "Okay, no problem." Ran the class, loved it. It went it went really well. It was just a a no jiu-jitsu grappling class. We never even called it jiu-jitsu. We just always called it grabbling. Yeah,
Ken Rideout
Because like you work on a particular move and then you do some sparring and try to implement the move situational stuff.
Eric Nicksick
I remember it was basically like a basic guard pass that I knew at the time and then we got to some ground and pound positions that Randy was working on or showing me and things like that. So I just was was regurgitating some of the stuff that they showed me.
Ken Rideout
You still a white belt?
Eric Nicksick
Oh, I still feel like a white belt, right? But in the moment I I knew I was in over my head, but I knew like I can It was more about passion and intensity that I knew that I had
That I wanted to make sure that everybody felt like they were being like a good class was being ran.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And then a couple of the guys got done and they're like, "Man, that was awesome." So Randy said, "Hey, can you run that one again next week?" And I said, "Sure."
So now as a as a as a bartender, right, I'm like promoting the class. I'm like, "Hey man, come in. Come see And then like next thing you know I had 30 guys coming to this practice. So Ry's like, "Man, you really grew this pract. Do you want to take Wednesdays?" And I was like, "Yeah, I would love that." So I had Wednesdays at 11:00 and Fridays at 11:00. The next thing you know, I was running the kids program. You know, I was
Ken Rideout
You're the perfect guy to run a kids.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah, it was it was amazing.
Ken Rideout
Such a [ __ ] nice person. But I hope that people listen to this hear this is like
You can't fake passion. You have to show up. The answer is always yes. M
And like the rewards that you got for having like the I mean I guess it's just the personality you have but it was like the right person was rewarded like the the opportunity saw you and you saw the opportunity and you were like yeah I'm here and I'm Yes. Wednesday. Yep. Kids. Yep. I'll do it all.
Eric Nicksick
Dude, how how simple is this? I was the guy that was always early and prepared.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
That was it. Like
Ken Rideout
Anyone who knows you would know that that's how I would describe you.
Eric Nicksick
Classes at 11:00. I'll be there at 10:30. I'm going to have a curriculum. I'm going to have an idea of what we want to run.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
If there's somebody better on the mat than me, like Vinnie was training coming Vinny Magalhães who's ADC world champion.
Ken Rideout
Oh, he's the best.
Eric Nicksick
He was coming to my class, right? Oh, yeah. And cuz he just loved the work like what we were doing and the drills and all those things. So,
Ken Rideout
Were there guys even remotely in his caliber?
Eric Nicksick
Nobody. Nobody.
Ken Rideout
So, it was all white belts for the most part.
Eric Nicksick
I mean, no, there was some high level. There were some pro fighters that were coming.
Ken Rideout
Oh, okay. They were all working on fundamentals.
Eric Nicksick
But I was running more of a of like a MMA drill session where it was more configured to the guys that were fighting. Everybody that was coming to that gym, whether you're a member or a pro fighter, there was a good mix, but the members were also guys that were wanted to get into MMA or they really liked the sport. So it was novice, but there was also pros. Gotcha. So then like Vinnie would be on the mat and then we would work on something, but I would always defer to him and then that's when our friendship started to spark and I I really started training under Vinnie.
But um all the while like yeah my name was on the class but we had all these world-class guys in the room and the class just began to grow and grow and grow. Um, but it it was essentially just like, "Hey, man. I'm going to be on time with a curriculum and do all the right things and show up, right?"
And it was it's very simple. Like I I think I think people lose sight of how important it is
Ken Rideout
Just to be on time. Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Just to be prepared, just to do the right little the little things, right?
Um, we Randy always talked about the TNT, things that take no talent. Yeah.
Right. Doesn't take talent to be on time. Doesn't take talent to be prepared. Control your controllables and good things will happen. And you know, lo and behold, it was about probably about three years coaching at Extreme. Randy offered me the gym manager job. Um,
Ken Rideout
And by the way, at the time, are you still taking the ju like practicing your own jiu-jitsu and going to classes to get better yourself? What are you at this point? Um,
When you became the gym manager,
Eric Nicksick
We had uh Neil Melanson at the time. He was our no ghee coach. Vinnie was our ghee coach.
Um, and Randy never really wanted to have ghee jiu-jitsu at the gym. He wanted to maintain MMA gym, right? But there was such a a a market for ghee jiu-jitsu that we were able to bring on Vinnie and Vinnie was doing a great job with that program. So I was really training under Neil. I ranked up all the way to Brown with him and then he left to go somewhere else and I never really tested. Okay. Anywhere other than, you know, I didn't even really
Ken Rideout
But you got to brown and the next step would have been black belt if you if you
Eric Nicksick
And that was and that was probably over 10 11 years ago when I got my brown belt, you know,
But then it was just for me it was more dialing in and understanding the MMA side of things. So I had Martin Kampmann, I had Mike Pyle, Brad Tavares, Jay Hieron, all these great mentors at the time and it was really Jay that was like I remember one day Jay sitting on the boxing ring and I was leaving and Jay's like, "Yo, E, like what's your what's your plan with this sport? Like what do you want to do with this sport?" And I had never really thought about it.
Um I was still going to school and doing all these things and he goes, "Man, I think you'd make a great MMA coach." And like a Jay Hieron, you know, who's my big brother to this day. But at the time for Jay to say that to me, man, really struck a chord. And I'm like, "You think so?" And he's like, "Yeah, dude. I really do." And he gave he didn't just say that. He gave me some things he thought I should work on. He knew that like my ego was like, "Oh, I'm good this." He goes, "Hey, if you can do all of these things and start to learn these things, let me explain to you what we need from what a fighter's perspective, we have to hire a boxing coach, a jiu-jitsu coach, a wrestling coach, a this guy that d" he goes, "You need to learn all of these things." So, when you go on the road with somebody, especially at the lower
Level, who can't afford to take three or four coaches, you become a a a commodity.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Learn how to wrap hands, learn how to hold pads, learn how to do all these things. And so what I started doing was just holding pads for free.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Right. I was like, "Hey, can I get 15 minutes of your time?" So Ray Sefo, six time world champ K1 kickboxer, hires me to be his coach for one of these camps, and I don't know how to hold pads. I don't know how to hold pads. Even wrapping the hands is crazy. Such a responsibility. There we When I was with Teddy, they brought in a guy specifically just to wrap hands.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. No. And so it was it was Rey that says, "Okay, I want you here on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10 a.m. You're going to hold pads for me." And we did that for like three years straight, man. Cuz that's a talent, man. That guy's throwing you're essentially like choreographing uh boxing or kickboxing exchanges. And those punches are coming fast and it's a responsibility. You don't have the pad in the right place, you throw a hook here. If your hand isn't here, you'll get knocked out.
Eric Nicksick
You're getting smacked. So learning the nuances of striking from Ray Sefo,
It was like, you know, you're in kindergarten but going to college, right? And I'm like, I don't know where to put my hands. I don't know how to catch. I don't even know route combinations.
Ken Rideout
Even what combos to call for.
Eric Nicksick
What combos to call for. So having him as like my my striking mentor. I couldn't I couldn't have asked for a better guy. So, um,
Ken Rideout
And it's good that you're learning kickboxing because of MMA and you're not just learning straight boxing where a boxing coach or trainer who was very established gonna have a hard time coming in MMA and understanding like, "No, we want a low kick here, not a jab. We want a high kick, not a low kick here." You know, to me,
Eric Nicksick
The stances alone and then now think about the way the sport has developed over the years, right? Now, you're talking about stance switches in motion. Oh my god. Right. At the time, Ray wasn't big on the stance switches. Although he some of his best knockouts have been stance switches when he knocked out Jerome Leanner. It was a stance switch, you know,
Ken Rideout
So much nuances.
Eric Nicksick
But Ray always was big on that. He's like, "Look, you're not allowed to switch stances because your defense isn't good from the other side.
So, I don't want you guys doing this stuff because he can do it. He understands it."
He So, he taught us so much of just the the meat and potatoes of understanding distance and striking, all those things. Now combine that with Randy Couture and Dennis Davis and these other coaches who have been in MMA for so long. Randy, his biggest thing was understanding cage geography. He's like, "You're in this trap. You're in this and it's infinite. It's a circle, right? There's choke points, there's cut offs, there's this, there's that. When do you set up the takedowns and how can you funnel guys the traps and choke points?" So being able to take those things I learned from Randy and then Dennis and then Ry and then combining it really helped me, I think, evolve as an MMA coach and just really understanding the the game as a whole.
Ken Rideout
There's so many nuances. That's why I'm like I'm like totally nerding out about this cuz I love the stuff of like the strategy, setting traps, working the guy into a false sense of security, catching him over here, like you said, catching him in the wrong place in the cage. There is so much to it coming from your background and not having been a fighter because there's so much more that you can learn as a fighter when you've been trapped. It's like oh that's now that's never a leaf in my brain.
Whereas you're obviously you have a skill for observing and translating that to the fighter and be like you see watch how much film do you watch with the fighters?
Eric Nicksick
Oh tons.
Ken Rideout
Cuz that's where you can be like you see when he did this and you fell to the right and now he's circling around like he cut you off. He set that trap for you. Like that's a skill and a talent that I like you can teach someone a little bit of this, but there has to be a level of obsession and like perfectionism that you clearly have. Like
At what [snorts] point did you realize like oh a lot of this is like really studying just like in college like I'm getting a degree in MMA and like how quickly did you realize like if I can just keep studying this like I can outwork essentially the other trainers?
Eric Nicksick
Well, you know, there there was always that um imposttor syndrome feel because I wasn't a pro fighter.
Ken Rideout
Well, yeah. Exactly.
Eric Nicksick
Right. Like, okay, I'm not a pro fighter. So, but I can't I can't change that, you know? I wasn't I wasn't getting into this sport because I wanted to fight particularly, right? Like that was really my goal. I had a couple fight offers. I I asked my wife at the time who was pregnant with my first daughter and she's like, "No, like not not happening. Like, this is not what I need you to do in your career." And so I knew I needed to make it up somehow some way.
Now I'll never have that same feeling as a lot of these guys have had. Um and I get that, but also
Ken Rideout
But clearly it's not imperative.
Eric Nicksick
No, not at all. Not at all. And I think for me in my my position and the way that I came up, it's nice because a lot of people reach out to me and say, you know, I want to coach the same way you do. And I know that I have that ability to do so because I also wasn't a pro fighter, right? Like I feel like I've opened the doors for other people. And a lot of really good coaches never fought or a lot of good football coaches that I knew never played.
Ken Rideout
That's right.
Eric Nicksick
You know, so what I realized was Ray, for example, he's set on coaching the way that he fought.
Ken Rideout
Yep.
Eric Nicksick
Right. That's exactly right.
Ray fought a particular style and he coaches a particular style. And then when I met Dwayne Ludwig, Dwayne started to open my eyes to other things and other variants and changed my game. Not only do I have one of the best striking coaches in the world than Rey, now I get another guy with a different set of ideology, now I can grow and and learn from him as well. So all those things combined, I think really helped me and understand that yes, I might not be able to to have that same feeling a lot of these guys had when they stepped in there.
But I also make up that ground by tape study, but also learning from the guys around me.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. You're also not married to like your own idea, like in love with your own, you know, your own thought process.
Exactly. So, as you're doing that, when do you do you remember the first MMA fight that you went to as as the head coach? And like what were the nerves like? Because I imagine you're probably more nervous than the fighter.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. So, my coach still to this day is Dennis Davis. He's he's um the head coach, the head guy, like my guy at Xtreme Couture. He was fighting at the Riviera. God, I wouldn't even know what year. Maybe 2007.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And um really not that long ago.
Yeah. It doesn't feel like it, right? um and he brought me on and and that's where I really started to learn how to coach and how to corner. So he he you know thankfully brought me on board, but afterwards he would make me come to to pro practice and in between rounds have me corner and have me corner him or have me corner guys and then he would kind of critique those cornering like, "Hey man, you don't have to talk you all the time. You don't have to say something there.
You know, this is where a guy might need more motivation or more structure or more instructions and things like that. So, um, honestly, it was just time served, man. I was just going in and and doing the work. And then slowly but surely, it was, um, then Martin Kampmann brought me on and then Ray Sefo and then Brad Tavares.
So, Brad and all these guys kind of open the door for me. And then what happens is other guys see that like, oh, well, Brad and Eric are like, you know, at the hit.
Ken Rideout
Y,
Eric Nicksick
I was Brad's main training partner.
Yeah. So he was fighting Tim Boch at the time and I was basically his Tim Boch. We sparred, we trained, we rolled and then he'd bring me on the road. So then another guy goes, "Oh man, like can I bring you on the road or can I bring you on board?" And oh yeah, I can hold your pads or I can wrap your hands or I can do this or I can do that. So just making yourself more useful and and a commodity for these other fighters.
And those guys really open the doors for me to allow me to be in the position I'm at today.
Ken Rideout
But again, you were saying yes to all the opportunities. And there's something magical about when you have the ability and the courage to do stuff for free. Like, yeah, I'll do it. What about pay? I don't even worry about it. I need the opportunity and uh I don't try to hide it. It's like speaking gigs. I mean, I don't do it as much now to the listeners. But if people asked me to speak and they were like, "What's your fee?" And I'd quote the fee. And then they'd be like, "No, we only have a thousand bucks.
I'll take it.
Eric Nicksick
Sure."
Ken Rideout
And I'll be like, "Yeah,
My negotiating tactics might be terrible, but guess what? I need the reps. I take the free ones at prisons." You nailed it. And you know, again, that's why I say I don't do that anymore. Don't ask me to do it. But the point is like just like anything, like, yeah, I get nervous about getting up there and speaking, but I know that if I keep doing it, I'll get better and I'll get more money to speak. And it's like the same thing you were doing.
It's like saying yes to everything.
Eric Nicksick
I love the word reps and I use that all the time. And that's exactly the way I looked at it. You know, before dinner, I was out there deep snapping before I was able to eat dinner, you know, and I'm like, why am I deep snapping? But it was just gaining reps and knowledge in in a particular field or craft. Um, and I never looked at it as like giving it away for free. I looked at it as like you said going to college. Like I was gaining this information.
That's right. That later on the ROI is going to eventually come back. So um, you know, guys will get done with practice. Hey, can I hold the kick show for you? Can I hold some pads for you? Can I catch kicks or I'm going to throw at you and let's dutch drill or whatever else. And you know, I feel like that's where I kind of earned my stripes with the with the guys in the room was, yeah, I don't have a problem giving away for free because I know later on down the line it's going to pay itself back.
Ken Rideout
What was the first like really big fight that you were cornering where you were like, oh [ __ ] like this is the big time now. I'm the head coach here, like a a pay-per-view UFC fight. Like, is there one that sticks out where you were like, whoa. So, you like I'd have things that happen like speaking to the Bruins, I tell my wife in private, like
This is a [ __ ] dream come true for me. Like I can't believe that this is happening. I'm going to skate with the Boston Bruins. I'm never going to get drafted, but that ship has sailed, but like I'm skating with the Bruins. I have on like a full coaching uniform. They gave me a shirt with my name on it. I'm like, they like let me live out my childhood fantasy, you know? To them, they're like, "Oh, we got this speaker coming in." But to me inside, I'm like, I want to cry.
Did you have any moments like that early in your career? We're like, "Honey, I'm cornering a world title fight or I'm on the UF I'm going to be on UFC pay-per-view
Eric Nicksick
fight." Honestly, still to this day, um I always take a moment to like look in the crowd to try to lock eyes with people like you know, you've seen me at the fights, I'll wave at you,
Ken Rideout
Of course.
Eric Nicksick
Um and I think those moments are very precious to remember how far you've come. But to answer your question, like the Martin Kampmann fight, um he was the main event versus Carlos Condid in Indianapolis. I had Martin and Brad on that card. That's when I really felt like, okay, like I I have something here, you know, and and and I'm I'm really like finding my footing in this sport. Um I remember coming home, Brad fought at MGM
And my dad, you know, being all of us being born and raised here, right?
My dad's like, "Man, like you're cornering a fight at the MGM Grand." Like, how cool is that? Like just talking about the history and all these things.
And I was never really nervous about it. And he goes he goes take a second and and take it all in.
Ken Rideout
That's right.
Eric Nicksick
So I think Brad was fighting Nate Markort or somebody and I remember like walking out and like looking around and going like holy [ __ ] man. Like this is crazy. So crazy.
This is crazy. So I remember that moment, Ken, telling myself, I never want to lose this feeling of
Gratefulness, right? Like the blessing of being able to be here because it's finite, right? at some point like you know that was the last the first fight I ever cornered Martin for but it was his last MMA fight and it wasn't chosen to be you know he was he was concussed and he wasn't able to fight again and I think that in a in a lot of ways it was a blessing in disguise as a coach to be able to understand what this sport is actually about and the humanity of the sport the fragility of the sport you know the danger and all those things um but it really helped me understand like how to coach I think you know during at time.
Ken Rideout
Have you had any guys that have been like seriously injured during a fight? And what goes through your mind when someone gets knocked out cold or you think like, "Oh [ __ ] this is like beyond knocked out. Like we have a problem."
Eric Nicksick
Yeah, I've had a few. I think you know you're you're around the game long enough you're going to see both sides. I remember when when Jessica I I cornered her for the Valentina Shevchenko fight and watching Valentina set up those kicks to the body and I knew it was coming. I literally I think the video is like me saying, "Hey, it's coming. It's coming upstairs."
And right as I'm like getting the words out of my mouth, Valentina hit her with that headkick and put her out. And it was bad, man. It was a really really bad knockout. Um, I went to the hospital with her
And the aftermath is always tough because we as the fans get to see the the the product in the cage.
Not a lot of people get to see the buildup, the training camps and what everybody goes through, but the aftermath, right, after a loss and how people feel and
Um, you know, that that was difficult to see because here's somebody that worked her way up to get a title fight, then to be knocked out the way that she was, knowing that you're going to be a highlight for eternity, right, when it comes to that. But seeing her in the hospital bed and like what am I going to do now, right?
And all those things I think you take and and with a grain of salt. And now as a coach, I tell guys like, hey, have a have a backup plan.
Ken Rideout
I I tell kids that I know that are fighters, I'm like, you have to treat every paycheck like it's the last. In training anyway, if you get hurt, that's this is how you pay your bills. If you're spending that money on diamond watches and necklaces, like
There's no return there. Number one, if you're big enough to make that kind of bread, when you go to a bar or a club or an event, everyone already knows who you are. You don't have to pretend to be tough. They know you're tough. You fight for money.
You don't have to like front with all these diamonds and [ __ ] You're already the coolest guy there.
Like, you don't have to put on a show for anyone. Like, take care of your money like it's going to last you because it may have to.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. And it's it's a very eye opening experience when you see somebody that vulnerable in that moment, right? And I was able to take that experience and then also help the younger guys, the younger generation of guys that are up and coming. Like for example, we have a couple kids that we used to coach in the kids program that want to get right into MMA. And like two in particular, a boy and a girl both have scholarships for wrestling.
Ken Rideout
Oh my god.
Eric Nicksick
And I'm like, guys, take the scholarship
Ken Rideout
100%.
Eric Nicksick
Get your get your school done. MMA will always be here. We can always still train, right? And even even my my young guy Zion um when he was asking me I go, "Do you like steak dinners?" And he's like, "I love steak dinners." I go, "Take as many recruiting trips as you can, right? Even if you decide not to go to college, I go, "At least go out and experience it." Well, he goes on a couple recruiting trips and falls in love with one of the schools and signs to go wrestle in college, right?
Ken Rideout
He goes, "Yeah, coach, you're right, man. I I really like steak dinners and and there's a lot of good-looking Mormon girls out here." I was like, "There you go, pal." A perfect example would be like Frank Mir's daughter. She could have probably been a pro Bella Mir could have been a pro MMA fighter probably right out of high school, but she became a college like probably all-American. She did everything.
She was just in the gym. But that's like an example like be a wrestling is like you might be able to wrestle in the Olympics. MMA ain't going to the Olympics. You might be able to do all that Gable Steveson and then come to and then come to MMA. Absolutely.
Those things you can't go back and do.
No. No. So that's like a big responsibility as the coach and I think like thank God you're the person that you are to be able to direct those kids and be like I always tell people when I work with like the people that we represent as as their agent like thought leaders doctors especially young doctors. We got this guy Dr. Clay Moss just finishing his residency and he's got all these brand partnerships and student loans and I tell him every time I talk to him I go please listen to me.
Money will never be a problem. Right. It's [clears throat] there. Yeah. If we do everything right, you're going to have not just partnerships, but equity and brands that are in the space. Like, please take don't do nothing. No decision should be made based on money. And for young kids that are coming up that have the opportunity to get a scholarship, potentially wrestle in the Olympics, like those things are critically important. And I guarantee if you ask any world champion MMA fighter if you could go back and do it again and go to the Olympics then do this, you're always like, I could have always done this.
I just at the time I thought this was the only option.
Eric Nicksick
Exactly. And and what is it teaching you during that time? Work ethic, right? And the grind and all these things. Like I have probably six or seven guys that are now in the police and fire department here. The guys that I coached.
The moment they got that opportunity at one, you know, Shy Lindsay, he was like 12 and one at the time. He calls me, "Coach, I got accepted to go to the police academy. I'm really sorry." And you know, I I'm going to step away from it. What are you sorry about? That's a career job.
Your life and you and I are going to be friends for life.
Yeah. this is a small chapter of your life and I'm happy to be on this journey with you, but man, like you're you're going to be helping your community. You're going to be getting a pension, a 401k, you're doing all these things. I couldn't be happier for you. You know, we got guys in the fire department now and doing their thing. And I know like uh for example, a good friend of mine when I was testing for the fire department, he's a captain. He said to me, he goes, "I had a guy on the oral board and it said he was a fighter from Xtreme Couture." and he goes, "I knew he was one of your guys and we hired him because of we knew we knew the the the lineage of of person that we're going to get and he's one of their best guys.
He was validictorian in their academy."
Ken Rideout
But here's the other thing is if you're going to be a world champion in the UFC and really make like make the real money, you're not even thinking about being a police. You're not even going to the test cuz you're like, "No, no, no. There's one thing I'm doing and I have no plan B." Sure.
And if you even applied for that job tells me like and there's no nothing wrong with it. Like cool, that's for you
Cuz you don't want to go against the guy who has no plan B cuz he's he will die for like Sean Strickland will die.
Eric Nicksick
Oh yeah.
Ken Rideout
He will he's not taking a police exam. He's not considering like should I buy this business. He's doing one thing winning and fighting.
Eric Nicksick
Exactly.
Ken Rideout
So that's that's like the litmus test. if anything else is creeping in. And then you get the the the problem is when you don't have all those other things going on, like you didn't get a degree or do some of these things, you get unfortunately in the situation where you're just you're a fighter. And when that fighting ends, and I feel terrible like I love Dustin Poirier. I've spoken to him almost every day since this thing happened with him. And it's like when that's everything is wrapped up just in fighting and that ends and it always does
Like who are you now? Because Dustin has a million things going on. and he's a businessman. He's like, I love him like a brother.
But seeing that happen to him was so sad because
I've never seen that guy. I've never seen that personality even when he's had drinks
And you could and he said it right away like, "Yo, what out this? What am I like? I'm am I even worth find your identity?"
Eric Nicksick
You know, that that's something too that I think it's a learning lesson for a lot of these guys. And you know, I know Sean said some things uh kind of jumped the gun on being critical about them. And it's like, dude, like take the time to assess the situation and understand where somebody's coming from first before you go out and say something publicly. And I know he walked all those comments back, but
I feel like Sean would be in the same position. Sean doesn't drink or smoke or do anything,
But that's what you're going to miss the most, man. You're going to miss the team, the camaraderie, the, you know, the the locker room, the talk, and the travel,
All those things. And then when you decide to hang it up and retire, like Jay Hieron did such a great job of he immediately transitioned into film. Like he's now a stunt man. So he had things to back himself up with right away. And and I would tell all the young guys and guys and girls out there to
It's okay to get your degree online, you know, and focus on the fight game and all those things, too. But just have something have something to fall back on because like I said, Martin Campman's last fight wasn't intended to be his last fight. You know, you never know in this sport.
Ken Rideout
That's right. Well, you mentioned Sean and I wanted to talk to you about that, but let's jump into it because I'm curious to get your take on [clears throat] because I know you you're just like a kind, thoughtful person, super generous, and I think Sean is too.
I love Sean Strickland, but sometimes he says things where I'm like, Sean, you don't have to tell everyone what you're thinking. You can think all those things. How do you handle those things when he does things like that? What are the conversations like? And we don't have to get into specifics, but like do you try to like be a par like a father figure in a certain sense and be like dude no like this is this okay this not okay?
Eric Nicksick
Yeah.
Um it's hard because you want him to exercise his right to free speech.
But at the same time I always ask him this question. What good is that going to accomplish if you said X Y and Z?
Yeah. what good does it bring to the [clears throat] gym or bring to the team or anything. So when you say something about somebody's religion or where they come whatever um it does have an effect because you do have a platform y
Right and at this stage in your career
Especially from your upbringing when he won the world title when he beat Izzy I can't tell you Ken how many people reached out to me with similar backgrounds and he gave those people hope. Yeah,
He gave a lot of those people hope.
And I think that's what people love about Sean is how real he is at times. But it's also important to understand that you do have a positive effect on people. You can use your platform to help people and
Help them put them in a position like you did, right?
Um,
And those are the things that I think that we have those conversations on. Like just recently with some stuff that came up, I'm like, bro, what good is that going to accomplish? It's not going to it's not going to help the gym. It's not going to bring more members to the facility. It's not going to help you get more training partners. So So just leave it alone.
Ken Rideout
More importantly, it's not going to help you. You brands can't work with you when you do this. And like look at look at Dustin. He's got the huge thing with regardless of what happens. He's got Bud Light. He's got a liquor brand. He's got And obviously that's, you know, probably unfortunate, but he's going to work it all out. He's a killer. He's like, but he's got like the hot sauce. He's got partnerships with supplements because he's
Eric Nicksick
Does a great job with his charity.
Ken Rideout
That's what I mean. Like those things are all available to Sean. And I get Sean like I'm not going to sell out. It's not about selling out. It's just maybe like dialing back and you don't have to share with everyone. And that's what I would tell him as a friend cuz I really like him. And I'm like cuz his story is like admirable what he's had to overcome. But I'm like, dude, you could be the spokesperson for like some like trauma healing center. And these places work cuz I've been to them.
When I wrote my book, I went through it with the editor and they were like, "We love this story." And I was like, "I got to take this stuff out." And they're like, "Why? That's good stuff." I'm like, "It doesn't do anything to help the book, but it's going to destroy these people." Even if it just hurts their feelings. Like, it doesn't help me. Yes, all that stuff happened, but I don't need to destroy their lives to like have like an extra story. Like, what I shared is is painful enough.
I don't need to then say like, "And then when I after they were done whipping me, they did this, this, this." like
The picture's already been painted. So, that's kind of what I think about it. But, I was just curious like as the coach like is he receptive to your feedback or is
Eric Nicksick
He he always has been and and a lot of times like anytime I've had like that type of conversation with him, he'd always immediately just say, "No, you're right." Like, "Yeah, you're right, coach." Like, I I see what you're saying there.
Ken Rideout
That's the hard part is he's like a sweet guy. I really believe that.
Eric Nicksick
He's one of the best guys you're ever going to meet. He really is. And and when you talk about a team guy,
Ken Rideout
Yeah,
Eric Nicksick
That dude is the epitome of a team guy.
Ken Rideout
Oh, I saw him at uh Nashville. I forget who you had that Yes.
Sean was like as nerv looked as nervous as intense as if he was fighting. He was like,
He was all about it.
Eric Nicksick
He's great in the corner. I love cornering with him. Um anytime that I've ever had the opportunity to put him in the corner, I do
Because he really is a smart cerebral fighter. He sees things really well. He's motivating. You know, I had him in the corner with Edmen Shahbazyan. I had him in the corner with Brad Tavares, uh Chris Curtis, numerous guys, Mansour, because he he brings this edge and this grittiness out in a lot of ways. He reminds me of the old school days of extreme couture. Yeah. Especially with his work ethic, right? Like and every round is hard and he's every practice is tough.
And we need that because I I think in some ways we we've gone away from that. But Shawn brings that energy back into the room. But furthermore, man, like he's a guy that sticks around after sparring to watch other guys spar to help guys to to to motivate and to give tactical information to. So
Ken Rideout
That's something you can't fake either.
Eric Nicksick
No, man. No, you can't.
Ken Rideout
You have to be a nut to stay after your own done with your own training to help
Eric Nicksick
You in the gym, bro. Like you've been in the room. You've seen us. We're a South Park episode.
Ken Rideout
That's right.
Eric Nicksick
There's no one safe. But that is under the the trust tree. We're in the nest, right? We're the boys. It's a locker room and we can we can poke fun and have fun, but when it goes outside of the gym, I think a lot of people that don't understand that locker room mentality, like I was talking to Brendan Schaub about that cuz he played in NFL and he fought and all those things,
He gets it. He knows the locker room talk and and that's the [ __ ] that where it's safe to say these certain things, but outside of that, I I definitely think you you need to be more filtered and understand the the effect it can have on other people.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. How hard is it when like he goes hard in sparring? How hard is it for you as the coach to like remind guys like, dude, we're not trying to hurt each other. Like I would say one thing that I love about the kids jiu-jitsu program at uh Henzo Gracie Academy in Nashville where my son was training is they would always emphasize like take care of your training partner. Number one, we don't want our people to get hurt. Number two, you don't want to destroy someone's confidence.
It's like if you're one thing that my son did that was like I always like felt like so much pride about if he was in there with a white belt and he was like a gray and black belt. He would let the kid get transitions on him and I and he was eight and I was like buddy I love how you kind of let that guy build some confidence and he said to me tell what good would it do for me to embarrass the guy and like ragdoll him?
I know I can do that and I know when they people did that to me I hated it. I didn't want to come anymore.
Right. So, how as the coach, how do you monitor the intensity and sparring when Shawn wants to like go [ __ ] to the death?
Eric Nicksick
Well, this is great because Sean's never told a guy, "Let's go light and him go hard."
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
So, so when you go with Sean and and he'll let you know like, "Hey, we got little gloves on today. Let's let's take it down a notch." Yeah.
And especially if it's another team guy, but there'll be guys that travel and come in town and maybe they have a bad attitude or maybe they're not a teammate.
Ken Rideout
Does your antenna go up when someone's from out of town? Like, oh Jesus.
Eric Nicksick
Oh, all the time. Okay.
But and but here's the nice thing about Shawn. I say nice thing, but the the real thing about Shawn is is that will be discussed to the person that's there. Hey, you're not a team. Do you plan on training here full-time? No. Okay. You're going to get hard rounds today.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
It's not by surprise. They're not just, you know, throwing a light jab and he's throwing an overhand over top of it. He's telling you before the bell rings, "Hey, this is going to be a hard round. I'm I'm going to try to make you quit." Yeah.
Right. And then if it's another teen guy or somebody else and and they have a specific fight coming up, Sean's in there trying to be sher bullet for Michelle Pada, right? Like, so there there's a balance there. We talked earlier before we got on, it it really depends on the energy of somebody that comes into the room, right? Like if a guy is, hey man, I'm here to work or I'm humbled or or you know, I'm I'm in town and we know him and we're always going to take care of those guys.
Back in the day at Extreme, it didn't matter. You could have been the nicest guy in the world. I I I watched guys bring chocolates and gifts into the gym and they got their ass kicked still. Like still beating the [ __ ] out of people. Didn't matter how nice you were. Um but those those times have changed. But now if you're if you're rude to the front desk girl and you have this ego about yourself or you know I'm 80 and0 in street fights and I kick everybody's ass and we're like all right bro come on in sign the waiver and we're going to kick the [ __ ] out of you.
Ken Rideout
So
Eric Nicksick
It really just depends you know it depends on the guy and and and who they are but for the most part we're pretty controlled and we try to take care of one another.
Ken Rideout
That's the part that I love about combat sports that isn't evident to people who are just fans of the sport is like those little nuances of seeing someone come in who's number one it takes a lot of courage to come up to come from another gym and be like hey I'm in town can I get work because you know there might be someone on that extreme couture team as an example that's like new guys coming in here they're getting the full treatment I don't give a [ __ ] if they come in with candy but then you can also get a pro like Sean contrary to what people might think that don't understand the fight game is like, "Hey, I I'm, you know, 2 and 0 as a pro.
I would love to get some work, but if that's if you're not into it, cool." Sean's not going to knock the guy out. You know, you're not going to try to hurt the guy cuz he's saying, "I'm 2 and0. I'm trying to develop. If it if that doesn't fit with your schedule, cool." It's like if someone wants to run with me and I'm just running, I'm like, "Yeah, if I say yes, I'm going to run whatever pace you run." But if you say, "Can I run with you?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I've got I've got eight onem repeats.
I'm going to try to hit 515 pace for 8 miles with a 2-minute rest. If you want that, like cool. I'm not going to. But I would never say, "Let's run together and just run away."
Eric Nicksick
No, not at all. Yeah. I I was bartending at the time. I stopped bartending and when COVID hit,
But I was bartending at a time and I was still coaching. I was I had world champions at the time. And I'll never forget this. There was a guy and he was sitting there and he was with a mutual friend. And this guy's puffing on a cigarette drinking his beer. And he says and he says to me and he's like, "Hey, if you ever need me to come in and show your guys a thing or two, I I've been blah blah blah blah blah." And he's, as he's taking a drag, he puts out a cigarette.
And I was like, "What are you doing tomorrow?"
Ken Rideout
That's when I'm like, "Guys, get the [ __ ] camera set up."
Eric Nicksick
I go, "Why don't you come in tomorrow?" And he goes, "Oh, yeah. I'll be there." D.
And here's my thought process on this. There's nothing more disrespectful in the world. So disrespectful
To think that you can just put out your cigarette, drink your beer, and hop on the mats with the with world champions and you're going to show them a thing or two. I see how hard these men and women work day in and day out at their craft. So by all means, come on in and show these guys a thing or two.
Ken Rideout
By the way, even if that guy is a great fighter, but if he's in not in training camp and he's drinking and smoking, like you just said, Sean Strickland doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, he's obsessed with MMA.
If you are not on your game and of world caliber ability, you're going to get annihilated. You're going to get seriously injured. So, when a guy's like, like I said, I don't care what his talent level is, if he's drinking and smoking, he's already getting smoked.
Eric Nicksick
You know, he's watched a couple fights here. He had a, you know, bar fight or whatever, but the audacity to think that you're just going to step into extreme disrespectful
And you're going to show a thing or two.
Ken Rideout
Tell me he showed up.
Eric Nicksick
Oh, yeah. He showed up and got and we put the green light on him.
Oh my god. Here's the best here's the best part about it. He was a big dude.
Yeah.
So I put him with my flyweights and bantamweights
Ken Rideout
Just to prove that point.
Eric Nicksick
I'm like, "Hey, you got Pony round one who's a 125, but he's an absolute killer. Hawaiian killer."
Ken Rideout
And Hawaiian's a scary.
Eric Nicksick
Oh yeah. So we put we put the green light out on him and and we try not to like I don't want to knock out, right? So we always say the gentleman's knockout. I want to see liver shots. I want to see low kicks
Ken Rideout
Till he begs for forgiven.
Eric Nicksick
If you drop them, I'm cash apping you 50 bucks for a drop until the guy quits. So, you know, now the guys, now it's fun. Now all the guys in the room and they're out. There's bounties out on these dudes and [ __ ]
Ken Rideout
So, what happened to him?
Eric Nicksick
Oh, he got his ass kicked. I think he made it lasted maybe 30 seconds to a minute in the first round with Pun.
Pony laid him out with a body shot, low kicked him, maybe got up once and then, you know, that happened with Chris Curtis one time. Same thing. guy came in and was talking trash and saying how he was a, you know, this California state wrestling champion and this this and that. And I made him stay in the cage for 5 minutes. Made him I got the video the whole thing. Oh my god. And I'm like and Chris dropped him with a low kick and he all right, I'm done.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, nope. You're in there for 5 minutes.
You said you're going to come spar and show these guys whatever. Right.
Yeah. That cage door doesn't open till the bell rings cuz this guy needs his round.
Ken Rideout
So whether you're a dead carcass or you're going to give him round, I don't give a [ __ ] Literally on video I'm going, "Nope, nope. You're you can climb out of that cage, but we're not opening that [ __ ] thing. You're stuck, buddy." So yeah. Well, one of the things when I think about you and your ability to develop fighters is like obviously Francis came to you, he had some skills, but watching what I mean he has all the natural gifts in the world, but like watching what you did with him, not only in MMA, but what he then went to on to do in boxing was just crazy.
Talk about like meeting Francis and like your relationship with him.
Eric Nicksick
It's like one of my best friends, man. Like a guy that
Ken Rideout
His story is crazy.
Eric Nicksick
His story is incredible. Should be a movie. I think for me in that in that position, the first time we sat down and had that one-on-one heart-to-heart as a coach, I wanted to identify where I could help him.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And the first question I asked him, Ken, was what are you afraid of?
What what makes you scared? You're the baddest man on the planet in my opinion. You know, you're this ominous figure with knockout power. You can, you know, knock out a horse. What scares you, man?
Ken Rideout
Before you say what's what's what he said, I just want to point out to the people that don't know, friends from Cameroon, he made his way to Morocco, I believe, and and and what he had to do essentially in a nutshell was get across the Mediterranean to Spain and seek asylum and he could then stay in Europe.
But you have to get there. And to get there, you have to get essentially in a makeshift rubber boat made out of tire inner tubes,
Which by the way, he can't swim,
Eric Nicksick
Right?
Ken Rideout
Imagine you can't swim. You're going to go into like what essentially the ocean, waves are crashing with a group of other African migrants and you're going to try to paddle far enough out that the Red Cross will rescue you and bring you to Spain. And I think he had like he said seven times
Seven attempts and when he tells the story about when they finally got out and the waves are crashing and one guy's like, I don't want to go in France like I picked up the the big piece of wood that they using as a paddling. He's like, get in the boat. And so when I think of what scares Francis and then getting to France and living in the stairwell of a parking garage, like this man has already like risked his entire life just to be free in Europe.
Not to be like a great fighter in Europe, just to be free of like out of the sand m the mines in Cameroon. So
That with the background when he when you say what scares him, what do you say?
Eric Nicksick
It was it was his wrestling, his cardio, the feeling that he had when he fought Stipe the first time. That was the first thing he went to.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
He said, "I never want to feel like I felt when I fought Stipe."
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
You know, I felt helpless,
Ken Rideout
Like a fish out of water.
Eric Nicksick
He goes, "I didn't even feel like I was in my body."
He said that about the Stipe fight and then I think the next fight was Derrick Lewis and he said like I just didn't feel like I was even there.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
You know, and then he decided to move to Extreme. Um
Ken Rideout
Where was he at the time of those fights?
Eric Nicksick
He had moved to Vegas for the Stipe fight. was training out of the PI but still had the guys from France.
Ken Rideout
Okay.
Eric Nicksick
And then I think the
Ken Rideout
And those guys have gone now, right?
Yeah. Those guys So they he had like real coaches.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. And I think for him it was um there was a lot of personality things that were clashing between him and that coach.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And he just needed a fresh start.
Ken Rideout
Mhm.
Um and sometimes guys don't mix.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah. Exactly. You know, and I don't think really anyone was at fault. I just think that just that you know. So, um, he had one more camp in Vegas and then he lost to Derrick Lewis and decided to make the change over to Extreme.
Ken Rideout
That fight with Derrick Lewis was hard to watch.
Eric Nicksick
Oh, very hard. I was there. I was cornering Uriah Hall, I believe, and I remember like sitting back there watching. I'm like, what is what's going on here? Like
Ken Rideout
Neither guy would get off. They just like looked at each other essentially for three rounds. I mean,
They were treated mercilessly by Dana, by the fans. I mean, rightfully so. It was like it was the oddest fight I've ever seen. Neither guy essentially wanted to engage.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah.
And both are killers.
Yeah. Both are killers.
Ken Rideout
It's so
Eric Nicksick
So his his first camp with us at Extreme was uh Curtis Blaydes 2. Okay.
I think that was in Shanghai or Singapore. He ended up knocking him out. Um then he had Cain Velasquez and then [snorts] won that fight.
Ken Rideout
Kane was a killer.
Eric Nicksick
Crazy. Crazy.
Ken Rideout
Could he beat Kane? I thought Kane when he was on top of the world was like the best heavyweight we'd ever see.
Eric Nicksick
Agreed. I don't I mean arguably still, right? Like when you think of his body of work and what he was capable of doing. Um, and then the first fight I actually cornered him for was Junior Dos Santos. And then after that fight, we got back home and then that was that meeting. So, um, yeah, and that's what he said. He's like, "These are the areas that I want to be better in." And I think that, you know, as a coach, it gives me a path. It gives me an idea, right?
Where can I where can I help you? Where can I be of service to you and and help you achieve this goal of being a world champion? And literally what I said to him was I said the word what I use is like, "Who's your boogeyman? What's your boogeyman?" Right. And I said, "Well, what happens if you conquer all these things?" And he looks up at me. He goes, "I'll be the baddest man on the planet." And I said, "Let's get to work on Monday." So that was it, man.
We started um a structure. I sat down with Randy and just asked him his thoughts and ideas on on [clears throat] how to make these things achievable. I talked to my dad a little bit about the psychology of how to make these things achievable. And the one thing that I really stuck out to me was, so let's take the wrestling for example. That was one of his things he was not scared of, but he wanted to get better at.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Rightfully so. I mean, some of these guys are like Olympic like you get um DC. He's like an Olympic caliber wrestler. I don't care how big, how athletic you are. When you get in there with a wrestler at that cal division one college, all American type,
You should be scared.
Eric Nicksick
And those were the two guys that that we were striving for was Stipe and DC. Yeah. One have already one has already beat you. the other one's uh world class world class wrestler. And when he said those things, I'm like, "Okay, great. I'm glad he's identified these things, but it's going to give us something to work on."
So although we we were booked to fight Jairzinho, I never wanted to overlook Jairzinho, but this was a time where I felt that we can use this this this timeline to build a skill gap or build the gaps. Yeah. Right. So yeah, we're we're we're looking to beat Jairzinho, but instead of just an 8week camp focusing just directly on Jairzinho, let's build this gap to where we're going to be able to fight DC and Stipe. So not not like an 8week camp of of of us, you know, dealing with those two, but let's make it a 20we or a 30-we camp, right?
And what we did was instead of us coming out and just teaching him defensive wrestling, what we wanted to do was make it fun for him. So what we did was flip the script. We're going to teach you how to take people down. We're going to teach you offensive wrestling. We're going to make it fun for you.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Instead of, oh, I got to defend another takedown and get up and make it this, make that.
Ken Rideout
Talk about exhausting.
Eric Nicksick
Because you're just like, man, I don't want to do this [ __ ] And you know, you will. He would do it,
But how can we make it fun for him? So, you know, COVID hit. Randy had nothing going on. I had nothing going on. We had Bgoy, who was a Sambo world champion. The last guy to beat Fedor and Sambo was Bgoy. Yeah.
So, the four of us would come in and we would just work on Francis's takedowns.
Ken Rideout
Wow.
Eric Nicksick
But what are you doing during that time? If I can teach you how to put the car engine together, you're going to learn how to take it apart.
Yeah. So in that in that stance, it was almost this reverse psychology of we're going to teach you how to be this topside crazy offensive wrestler, but now his defensive wrestling was getting better just inherently because he was doing what? He was wrestling, you know, but now he was loving it. Now he's taking guys down and now he's beating up guys in the room. Now we're able to go, okay, so now if you could take a guy down, what's it going to do to your overhand if I can show some level change and the threat of a takedown's there?
You're going to get guys dropping their hands.
When you go back and watch the Stipe fight, he just basically circled off to the powerhand side and knew the overhand was coming. Pull counter, take the single, take them down.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Okay. Well, now we can build on these things and make this a threat.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Now, when you do get taken down or if you if if there is a shot, then now we can counter it. Now we can fit in. Now we can set these other things up. So that's where the MMA growth really started to happen when he was just accepting of the fact of I'm going to learn how to wrestle. Yeah.
Right. And then it took us, honest to God, it was tough, Ken, cuz he would take guys down and he would beat the living [ __ ] out of dudes to the point it was like he had this new toy. Yeah.
And we're like, Francis, all right, let him back up.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
We got to start over the round or, you know, TKO, bro, it's over. Who are we bringing in as sparring partners with him?
Oh, man. We went through so many people, bro. Dewey and I brought this guy in for the steep camp and I'll never forget this. The guy flew in that day, lands, comes straight to extreme, starts to spar with Francis. Countdown shows there. They're filming, right?
Ken Rideout
Oh my god.
Eric Nicksick
And this guy kind of goes like chest to chest with Francis and is like looking to try to take Francis down. And Francis hits this guy with a a wizard kick or uchima, right?
And this guy and he's probably about 66 67.
This guy's feet and head l like just right over.
Yeah. And Francis spikes this dude on his skull
And then proceeds to just go into ground to pound mode and we're like, "Yo,
Ken Rideout
Hold on."
Eric Nicksick
He's going to break his neck.
Ken Rideout
Check and make sure this guy's alive.
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
I mean, it was I'm not even kidding. This guy spiked him like right on his head.
Ken Rideout
Big, too.
Eric Nicksick
The guy The round wasn't even over yet. The guy we brought him out of the cage cuz he was just out of it. grabbed his [ __ ] because his [ __ ] was still in the gym and got on the next flight and left.
Ken Rideout
Oh my god.
Eric Nicksick
We didn't even have a chance to pay the guy.
Ken Rideout
Oh my.
Eric Nicksick
That's how quick of a turn around it was for him, you know.
Ken Rideout
Did you tell him like, "Dude, you can't hurt the guys. They won't stay."
Eric Nicksick
Well, it was it was tough for a while. It was tough for a while. We had we had to have those conversations cuz even Ray Sefo was like,
You know, Bubba, I can't spar this guy like like you got to take it easy on me, you know? So, it was a learning process for him.
Ken Rideout
The interesting part about that is Francis is a unique guy. He doesn't like trust people instinctively. Like he's got his guard. It's like up here in life
Eric Nicksick
Always.
Ken Rideout
And it's just interesting how you've been able to break through cuz I know you guys are like family cuz I see like the social media pictures like of families together like but that speaks volumes about your ability to connect with people as humans. Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Because Francis doesn't have a lot of relationships. It it it took a while, you know, and and uh I think the first time I met him, he always tells the story is his English wasn't very good at the time, but the first time I met him, I gave him a big old hug and hey, what's up, brother? And you know, where he's from, he goes like, I don't hug people and you're not my brother,
Ken Rideout
You know, and he goes, but
Eric Nicksick
I knew you were warm and welcoming. feel that energy and co was a blessing in disguise for our relationship
Because it was we were able to open our our home to him
And during that time
Ken Rideout
With you during co
Eric Nicksick
I mean essentially he he had his house
Ken Rideout
But
But you're alone
Eric Nicksick
He's alone and I remember Dana telling me that he goes hey keep him ready we don't know when the fight's going to be because we had the fight with Jairzinho was supposed to be booked for Columbus Ohio it co hit it got pushed back and it was like, "Hey, you're going to fight in in March or you'll fight in in April." Then it was May. Then it was, you know, it kept getting pushed, but all the while we had to stay ready.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Of course.
Eric Nicksick
So, we're all training together. We're all still working out together. Meanwhile, we don't know what the hell's COVID and what's going on and, you know, the the impact it can have on the families and whatever else. But I'm training with this guy every day. Yeah.
So, if I got something, he's got it and vice versa.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I remember saying to my wife once, I was like, "Hey, is it cool if I invite Francis over for dinner?" And she's like, "Please, like, yes, thank you." Like, you know, we're just on these kids.
So, he comes over for one night for dinner and and um you know, he essentially just became part of the family and my kids love him, you know, and and
It was probably three or four times a week he was over at the house watching movies and hanging out and being part of the family. And that I think really built that trust in knowing like who I am and what I represent and my family. And
Not only that, let me take it one step further too, Ken, is like
You as a coach, your time is taken away a lot from your family.
Ken Rideout
Y
Eric Nicksick
A lot. And a lot of these fighters for the most part don't appreciate the time that you lose out with that family.
Ken Rideout
That's right.
Eric Nicksick
Well, my family now understands where my time and effort were going. They can put a name and a face to it.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And Francis was the first guy to make them feel appreciated.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
Really feel appreciated.
So when he won the world title, the first person he thanked was my son.
Ken Rideout
Oh wow.
That's awesome.
Eric Nicksick
He thanked everybody, but you know, he I got to give a shout out to my Noxy boy.
Yeah, that's right. Nazi is, you know, probably four years old at the time and he's hearing his name on TV and how cool it was and but he won the the hearts of my entire family because he really appreciated
All the effort that was put in not only by me but the time that was lost from them. So
That's the relationship that we have, man. Like that's my brother. Um, you know, all the things that we've been through together just make us our relationship stronger. Uh, I couldn't be happier to be just his friend. not even his coach. Like when this is all said and done, man, he's going to be a friend for life.
Ken Rideout
I love too like the cultural differences. Like I love learning about African cultures and having like Abdi Abdi Rockman who's a five-time US Olympic runner for the US originally from um Somalia, but just a world-class guy. He was just at the house uh to do the podcast with me and nationally. Stayed for a night and uh spent a lot of time with my kids. He now coaches in Ethiopia 6 months out of the year and my daughter is Ethiopian. But it's just so much fun to see them like obviously he's lived in the US for a long time.
But just talking about like just the dinners, the differences when they're having dinner in Ethiopia and when we adopted my daughter, speaking of how you hugged Francis and he was like no one would ever hug me or call when we were in Ethiopia adopting her. We were at the orphanage and they were all women that took care of the um uh the children and I was taking pictures with them like this and I said to the guy at one point and I was one the guy who was like kind of the organizer.
I'm like, "Why do the girls act so like kind of giddy when we're taking the pictures?" He goes, "Oh,
Men in Ethiopia would never touch the women." And he's like, "You're putting your arm around them and they they know that it's a cultural thing, but like they're like giggling because no, they would never do that." And I was like, "I didn't offend them." He goes, "No, no, no. They love it." Yeah,
But he's like it's just I to me that part of life I love that stuff. I love being in different cultures.
Eric Nicksick
I couldn't agree with you more, man. Like he's been he's been such a good um mentor to my middle daughter when it comes to gratitude, right? Like and my you know the middle child and I don't get enough or whatever.
Ken Rideout
That's the guy you gave the hat to.
Eric Nicksick
Right. Right. So when when there's things or situations that come up and she feels like she's being sided, he'll be the one that always like, "Hey, would do you want to come to Cameroon and live with me and you want to see what it's like to not have a phone?" Yes.
You want to see what it's like not to have a roof over now. Now he lives in the presidential palace. Now he's doing his thing. But you're right, those cultural differences for somebody that has never really seen the world, has never really traveled outside the country other than Mexico, right? My daughter doesn't really understand those things. So having a resource like Francis who can sit down and explain, hey man, we don't even have running water when I grew up, right? Like if you had this like when hit, he's like co that ain't [ __ ] what I what we had in Africa, you know?
Like they would put you in a hut and they'll check on you in two weeks. If you were still alive, then they' take you out. But if not, then sorry, bro. like just the differences between what we what we deal with and what we think as a as a trials and tribulations he laughs at, you know, he laughs at. So,
He's been such a great ambassador to um you know, being that like uncle or second role model or, you know, father figure, not to mention talking about being a world champion.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
I bring my kids around them
In the gym and it's not because I want them to be a pro fighter. I want them to see what hard work looks like. Yeah.
And you want to talk about a guy like you you brushed on it, a guy who risked everything to be in the position that he's at just to be free,
Ken Rideout
You know? I want to first of all, how great has it been to do all the world traveling you've done to see all the places that you've seen being the coach of a UFC like world championship coach? Like you go everywhere. Weren't you just in like a
Eric Nicksick
I was in Baku.
Ken Rideout
I mean I would kill to be in a place. Not only are you going there, you're going there as like essentially like a celebrity. Like the freaking government probably knows you're there. Like, oh, let's make sure these guys see everything. It's
How great is it?
Eric Nicksick
It's a blessing. And and honestly, like I I tell myself every time like this is what I get to do for work. And I love it.
Um I also think it's important, like we said earlier, to to see things culturally and and and the differences and
Places that, you know, that don't have the things that we have. And it makes you appreciate the country that you live in and and the things that we're given. Um the freedoms that we have, right? Those aspects I I always try to take a second and think about like, hey, I was in China and how beautiful it was there and how clean it was there and how how important it was to take care of their city.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
And and just the cultural differences, right? It's humbling. I think it's very humbling, but it's also a reassurance to know that we do live in the best country in the world. And I wish that we more people traveled to see what else is out there. Not saying there's other countries that are bad or worse or things like that, but it's important to understand what we really do truly have.
Ken Rideout
That's exactly right. I don't think a lot of the people that are the most critical have seen what the rest of the world looks like.
They just have been taught this like crazy ideology that somehow it's like things aren't working here.
Eric Nicksick
It's entitlement.
Ken Rideout
Everything could be better. Like don't get me wrong, like no system is perfect, but go to Cameroon for a couple of weeks and then come back and tell me how rough it is here. Even if like
You have a everyone who's here has a chance to do whatever they want. I feel like I could talk to you forever, but I know the time is coming up and I know you've got more people to train. But the one thing I want to ask you before you go, your relationship with my main man Joe Mazzulla.
Oh man. not just your like his training, his work ethic, and his ability to be humbled and get in there and be a white belt and just be a combat athlete, but more importantly, how you guys have helped each other to get better and what he's learned from you and what you've learned from him.
Eric Nicksick
I don't know. I mean, there's
Ken Rideout
People that don't know, Joe Mazzulla is Celtics head coach.
Eric Nicksick
Yeah, Celtics head coach. Um, there's not too many people in the last 10 years that have had an immediate impact on my life like Joe. And I think in a lot of ways because we're both coaches and we're coaches at a high level, not a lot of people understand what we go through on a daily basis and the the responsibilities that we have and the the egos that we have to manage and things like that. You know, our relationship started because Forest Griffin hit me up.
Um they were in town for summer league. This was like four years ago. He said, "Joe wanted to meet with me." And I said, "Joe Mazzulla, for what?" M
And um he said he was curious about watching some sparring and wanted to see how you manage your your corner work similar to what they do in their timeouts and he said that he felt like he wasn't able to control the huddle the way that he wanted to. Um obviously they have 15 20 guys probably in a huddle right maybe less and you know we only have the fighter and three other coaches but he wanted to see how he managed those things. So him and Sam Cassell came out and we spent about two weeks with them, myself, Dan Eay, Brad Tavares, and we really struck up this friendship.
But what I realized in that moment was this man is willing to exhaust any option available for him to be better for his team. He's stepping outside his comfort zone, going in a complete demographic that doesn't even mesh,
Ken Rideout
The most intimidating demographic,
Eric Nicksick
And he's trying to find ways to evolve. And it was an eye-opening experience for me because it's like I should be doing the same things. I'm going to seek out other friendships for high high achievers and high performers in their field. Now, you know, Flex Lewis, one of my best friends, he's a seventime Olympian bodybuilder.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
We don't have a lot in common when it comes to our sport, but they do. They cross paths here and there, but I want to be around people like that. Where where can I gain this energy and this knowledge and things like that? And that's what really my relationship has with Joe has has struck this new height of of friendship, but also this nuances of coaching, right? Like now he's out here and we've you know, he's been out here for a week. We trained every day.
We hang out every day and he's helped me re um refine my faith. Um you know, he's just been a soundboard for me. We talk three, four times a week.
Um you know, when he's in the middle of the season, I know he's busy. He'll be writing me, "What's up, brother? How's everything?" And I don't want to bug him.
Ken Rideout
Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Nicksick
You know, because I know he's going through stuff. But then I realize it's like he's writing me because he needs to talk to somebody at times. Yeah. You know,
Ken Rideout
And it's probably like his friends like I've been lucky enough someone connected us via text. We text occasionally, but like you just described like I don't want to bother the guy, but I also like I never have a problem saying to people like, "Oh, I just want to be friends with the guy because I admire what he's done. He got a chance. He was in the right place the right time. took the chance and like won a world title at an age where most guys would be happy just to be like a volunteer assistant coach on the freaking division one college team.
He's won an NBA title. So, I'm always sensitive to that and don't want to overstep of being like I'd like having kind of a new relationship with him, but he [clears throat] never makes me feel like that. I'll send him a text and maybe he won't respond for two weeks, but out of the clear blue he'll be like, "Hey, what were the dates you're in Vegas?" is such a high quality human.
Eric Nicksick
I know I know his schedule. I know he's busy, you know? And then like it's funny cuz I'll I'll ask him a question like, "Hey man, how you doing with this whole thing?" And then it's like he's always reverts back to the fight games like, "Hey man, I got to see this, this, and that."
Ken Rideout
Oh, with the trade with Jaylen Brown. I wonder that too, but I would never ask. You have a different relationship with him. I'm like, "But same thing with you with Sean." I'm like, "How do you as the coach handle this?" Obviously, he's not involved in in person. I mean, I don't know, maybe has feedback, but like someone gets traded. It's that's it's a business at the end of the day. And uh it's always interesting to see how people handle that. But um like I said, I want to be sensitive to time.
I could talk to you for hours. I mean, we haven't even talked on the I haven't even touched on the when Francis got to fight Tyson Fury and and then the high of that then Anthony now we got a part two. I would love to. We'll have to Yeah, we'll have to do a part two and uh make it a regular series. But dude, thanks so much. I love you. I love everything that you're doing. You're a great man. I wish Joe could have joined us.
Maybe next time we'll get a coaches round table when he's not so busy.
Key takeaways
- Arriving early, preparing a lesson, and helping with the cleanup can earn trust over time.
- Strong fundamentals and careful film study can help an athlete compete when speed or size is not an advantage.
- Coaches can improve by getting more reps, learning from others, and staying open to different approaches.
- Young fighters should finish school and build a backup plan because an injury can end a career without warning.
- A coach should match sparring intensity to the partner and make sure fighters know what they are agreeing to.
- Building trust with a fighter can include making room for them in family life, not only guiding them in the gym.
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A weekly letter from Ken Rideout about doing the uncomfortable part, and the reasons we use to avoid it.
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