Episode · Jun 24, 2026 · 1 hr 25 min
The Crack Addict Who Became a Med Student
with David Millar
David Millar is a medical student and ultrarunner who rebuilt his life after addiction to alcohol, cocaine and crack.
“I treat it like a pill a lot of the time.”
Summary
Millar describes growing up in Ocean City, New Jersey, where he watched addiction and assumed he would avoid it. His first drink came as a teenager; by sixteen he was using cocaine, and the drive to keep going led to crack, leaving college, repeated treatment stays and nights sleeping in the woods. He recounts stealing to fund drug use, fleeing detox and cycling through psychiatric wards.
At twenty, meeting people who embraced recovery made a sober future feel possible. A year in a structured Los Angeles program taught him daily discipline and accountability. Millar returned to school, finished a psychology degree, worked in a hospital and took the MCAT before entering medical school. He talks about keeping recovery private in his application, running as a stabilizing practice, and channeling the same obsessive drive that once fueled addiction into study, coaching and endurance races.
Show notes
David Millar grew up at the Jersey Shore surrounded by addiction, promising himself he would never become like the people he watched struggle around him.
Instead, by age 20, he was deep into alcohol, cocaine, and crack addiction. He dropped out of college, cycled through psych wards, detox centers, and rehabs, slept in the woods, stole to survive, and believed drugs would define the rest of his life.
Then everything changed.
David got sober, rebuilt his life one day at a time, rediscovered running, returned to school, and eventually earned acceptance into medical school despite being told his past would hold him back.
Today, he is seven years sober, an ultrarunner, medical student, coach, and one of the most powerful voices in recovery.
In this conversation, David shares the reality of addiction, life inside psych wards, sleeping in the woods, the treatment program that saved him, why running became his medicine, and how he transformed an addictive personality into a force for growth.
This is a conversation about addiction, recovery, discipline, and what becomes possible when you refuse to quit.
Transcript
Made from YouTube's automatic captions and lightly corrected, so a few words and names may be off. Click a time to play the video from there.
Ken Rideout
All right, my guest today, the great David Millar. David Millar Mindset to be specific. I told Chris Herren that you were coming on. I said, "Oh, do you know David Millar?" He's like, "Is that David Millar Mindset?" I said, "That's the one." Ultra runner, sober warrior, med student, you've done it all. And you're here to talk about it.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
And you don't care who knows. Let's get into it.
David Millar
Yeah. Happy to be here. Grateful to be in Nashville. First time here. So, having a good time. Got some miles in this morning.
Ken Rideout
You were pushing the pace, too. I was like, "Damn, this guy's like pushing me to the freaking breaking point over here."
David Millar
This guy just worked out yesterday.
Ken Rideout
I know, we got a good 10 miles in at like 7:09 pace, which I was like, "Whoo." We're working.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
You know what's crazy is when I'm in good shape, that would be like my recovery pace, but there's a I always tell people there's a big difference between being in shape and being ready to race.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
When you're ready to race, you're like a freaking caged animal like, "Let's go."
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
You're holding back at 7:09. You're working out at like, you know, 5:40 pace.
David Millar
That's the interesting discipline of running, I feel like. Some days you just feel so good, but you know you got to conserve the energy for later in the week, whether it's a workout or if you got the race coming up. You got You got to learn to tame yourself and kind of be in control rather than just letting it spill.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, no. That's the whole mindset of running is like having the discipline to rein it in when it's time to run easy because and it's something that I'm not very good at, to be candid, is like being conservative when it's time to be conservative so that when it is time to empty the tank and really work out hard because that's where races are won and lost. Those workouts at times are much harder than the race.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
And being able to like pushing to the limit and then recovering properly is something that I struggle with. My recovery runs aren't nearly easy enough. If you look at some of the elite African runners, they'll be doing like long runs at like four 4-minute and change pace under 5-minute pace and then they're long they're easy recovery runs will be like 9 or 10 minutes and I'm like, "Jesus, that takes To me, that's harder than the than the the the work." The discipline it takes to jog at 9-minute pace cuz I'm like, "I just want to get this over with."
David Millar
That's the key to ultra training though is just time on the legs. Yeah, so it's like the slower you're going, the more time on the legs you're accumulating, so it's just learning to run that slow.
Yeah, and being okay with it.
David Millar
I grew up in Ocean City, New Jersey. South Jersey. Um grew up like right on the beach in a beach town. It's a vacation town in the summer. Ton of people there, a lot of drinking, partying, um and then just a ghost town in the winter. And I went to high school. I'm pretty sure it's one of I think it's the second closest high school to the beach in the United States.
Ken Rideout
Really?
David Millar
Yeah, it's right on the boardwalk.
Ken Rideout
That's interesting. Have you ever been to cuz Malibu High School is like I you could almost throw a rock to Malibu High School to the ocean.
David Millar
I think that's the one that beats us. It's It's that one, yeah. Uh but yeah, right on the beach. Like gym class was biology class was uh out on the out on the beach. You're looking at like the horseshoe crabs, like the jetties, the the sea life. Uh gym class we were riding bikes on the boardwalk for like an activity. It was pretty cool. Grew up there, loved it. I mean, I kind of came up in not like a terrible family situation, but uh my mom and dad did get divorced.
There was a lot of alcohol problems in my house growing up and it was just always under the cover, not really ever talked about. And as a kid, you're just you're just confused. You don't really know exactly what's going on. You see people close to you supposed to be role models drinking and not really being the best example. And you know, you kind of get the second-hand embarrassment almost. You you're trying to control it from an outside perspective. So, like your friends at school don't really see what's going on at your house and you're trying to act like everything's normal cuz you know, you just want to fit in as a kid and stuff like that.
So, I kind of grew up with those demons always on me. And uh promised myself that I would never I would never drink cuz I saw what it did to people close to me. I saw what it did and I saw the destruction that it caused. And I I told myself I would never do that, but eventually the time came where I had the opportunity to to pick it up and all my friends were doing it in high school. And uh this one night I was just like, you know what, [ __ ] it.
I'm going to do it. And, uh, just from that from that moment, I mean, it was like a pretty white light experience for me. It transformed a lot of my thinking. And, uh, it just removed weights on my back I didn't even know I was carrying. And, from that moment on it was just all in. I mean, it was just this is what I want to do. I'm I'm always kind of been an all in person as well. You know, I I, uh, started skateboarding and built a half pipe in my backyard.
All my buddies would come over. We'd skate skate my half pipe. Um, there was a time where I was like making music, uh, in high school and I built like a full soundproof studio out of wood, you know, duct it out, everything like that. So, everything that I do I do to the to the max still till this day. Like with running and stuff like that, med school. Um, so when I found drinking it was no different. It was just this makes me feel good. I can use this to optimize my social status at school.
I can use this to make myself feel better. It's a therapeutic for me. And, from that from that point forward it was just how do I do more of this? How am I going to, you know, uh, incorporate this into my life and continue to do this?
Ken Rideout
Interesting. I have very similar background where my parents were always where my mom was always smoking weed. And, it's and, you know, you can't escape the smell of weed. In the, uh, '70s and '80s weed wasn't, uh, socially acceptable as it is now. So, I feel your pain when you're subjected to that [ __ ] as a kid and you're like, I don't want this. Like, stop doing this around me. And, and like you then to find myself in the same like throws of addiction was even more painful than it should have been because I didn't want to be anything like the people that I, uh, lived with.
But, it's always interesting to me, too, growing up in Jersey like that where you're so close to the ocean where there's it's almost like parallel universes, right? There is like the people that are enjoying the beach and they're sober and they're living that life and they like the beach and then you got the like seedy side of the Jersey Shore that's like junkies and like behind the curtain is like literally one street to the next is like this side everything's ideal like in family. The other side they're like shooting fentanyl and like scoring drugs.
It's just crazy especially down the Jersey Shore I feel like.
David Millar
We have a big heroin problem in Cape Cape May County to be specific. Yeah, it's like a big heroin problem. I grew up I knew people who were you know, just randomly dying of ODs and stuff like that. So it's always been like pretty prevalent. They like pushed it really hard in the school system, too. They had to always had a bunch of Chris Herren came to speak.
Ken Rideout
The man.
David Millar
Yeah, at my middle school well before I like ever picked up a drink. Um which was funny cuz I texted him or I DM'd him on Instagram a couple months ago and let him know, you know, you came and spoke and you know, I'm 7 years sober now kind of crazy, but um yeah, it's always just been a big problem and it's funny cuz the island that I grew up on Ocean City is a dry island. So you can't get booze anywhere, but the first thing that you see when you when you leave the island is liquor stores.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
Um so people are still drinking, but it's just funny cuz it's technically a dry island.
Ken Rideout
Well, I would say that heroin probably isn't the problem anymore. It's fentanyl.
David Millar
But yeah.
Ken Rideout
Fentanyl has literally taken over. Um and it's it's I feel like it's become easier than ever to understand how people are segueing from or kids in particular like, you know, they score a bottle of Percocet either from their own surgery or they steal it from someone's house and they take a couple percs and the worst thing in the world is for the kids to get a taste of that and realize that they like it. Cuz some people don't. Some people take I know people that are like have surgery and they're like, "Oh, I never took the pain medicine." Of course like a true junkie.
I'm like, "Where are Where are those pills?" But to the people that take it it's such a curse and when you take that and realize that it just clicks with you and it's like, "Oh my god, I didn't know I could I didn't know I could feel this happy.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
And again, blessing and a curse. It's fun to feel happy and high. A curse knowing that this exists because now that's all I want to live in this state. And the bad news is that that state is never going to be as good as it was the first time and it's going to get a little worse every time until it's something that you need just to avoid being deathly sick. It's literally like the sickest game you could play with yourself. And unfortunately, when you make that transition from prescription painkillers over to heroin and fentanyl, it's like pretty quickly a pretty quick descent into hell from there.
David Millar
And just the transition of going from experiencing those highs to having to be sober and not have any anesthetic, not have any chemical in your body and to single-handedly rewire your brain to fire dopamine at looking at a sunset or the ocean or just a normal thing is such a hard but like valuable experience that people like us have to go through.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
Coming back to reality after experiencing the highest of highs and the lowest of lows and teaching yourself to be okay with, you know, just everyday life and sunsets and oceans and views and you know, scenery on a run, you know, it's just that was a huge transition for me but also something that is incredibly powerful when when you look back because it's like I single-handedly rewired my thinking to be okay with just not needing to wake up and put a chemical in my body to feel excited every day.
Ken Rideout
I
David Millar
Naturally at baseline feel that way.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
And it's all internal work. You know, and it's the running too. The running was huge in terms of like bringing back my nervous system from, you know, years of drug abuse and stimulants and drinking and and all the things. Um and just putting these, you know, challenges in in front of yourself to really build that self-esteem back.
Ken Rideout
So, when you grew up, were you an athlete?
David Millar
Yeah, I was an athlete. I was always a runner, uh, but I hated it. I really only [snorts] did it because it made my my mom happy, got her off my back. Uh, but I was hanging out mostly with like the lacrosse and the football kids. Um, really only with the cross country kids when I was at practice or running at meets. Never took it seriously, was partying all the time, and then would just wake up and run with a team. Always did pretty well despite that.
And then had a bad addiction problem, spun out of control really quickly. Uh, you basically like dropped out of college and came back home to South Jersey and had nothing to do except get high. And I remember on my way back from college, cuz at this point I'm like dropping out of college, so I'm dealing with that. Like, "Oh, man, I'm a college dropout now." Like, things are really starting to come to a head. And I was just like, "You know what? I'm just going to get high for the rest of my life." I made that decision in the car ride home, uh, packing all my [ __ ] up from my apartment at undergrad, and came home and just did exactly that.
And as you can imagine, I spun out of control very quickly, in and out of psych wards, uh, detoxes, every rehab within like a 25-mi radius of my house. And I, as much as it sucked, I'm kind of grateful that it happened that way because I see a lot of people that kind of just have the drinking problem that's like subtle, but it's not enough for them to like pay attention to. It's like a slow knife that's like slowly killing them, and they don't really notice it until they wake up in their 40, 50, or 60, and they're like, "Holy [ __ ] I've been drinking and it's just been slowly ruining my life, and I and I've had no idea up until this point." Whether it's a health problem that comes up or a realization or whatever.
For me, I was 20 years old, and I had it was so obvious to everybody including myself cuz I'm in psychiatric wards, I'm in rehabs, I'm dropped out of college, you know, I'm like almost almost dead, basically homeless, and it's so obvious to me. I'm like, I need to change. So, I'm I'm grateful for that. But, I fell back in love with running when I after I was like at maybe a year and some change sober, I was coming back to the East Coast. I got sober out West in LA.
I was coming back East, and I was going to go back to an undergrad college cuz I I wanted to go back to school. Like, I I always felt like I wasn't really smart, and I always felt like I had something to prove with like academics. And I'm like, I want to go back to college. I don't care if I'm sober. I want to go back. I want to learn. I want to be in the library. I want to study. I want to push myself academically.
And I didn't get sober to to play it safe. Like, if I if I want to do something and I'm risking this like I'm not drinking, like I'm going to go do it, right? And so, I came back home, and I'm going to this university. Everybody's drinking. I There's literally not a sober person at this university I'm at. So, like, a pretty big party school. And my thinking is like, I'm going to join the cross country team cuz I need I need a group of guys that are solid, that aren't really going out on the weekends and stuff like that.
So, I joined the cross country team and made friends with just great guys that, you know, occasionally drank, but they were just hardcore. They were hardcore. We were running 80 mi a week. We had a We had races every basically every weekend, even in the off season, we're training like lunatics cuz you can't you can't just run cross country and not train all summer, right? Like, the whole summer you're running 80-mi weeks. We're working out three times a week. We're always together. We're eating healthy, pushing each other.
It was just a great community, man, and a great culture, and my coach was was amazing, and just It was no [ __ ] It was no [ __ ] Even if you got injured, your IT band flares up, your shins are You got shin splints, whatever the [ __ ] you have going on, my coach like we had a whole line of rowing machines. He just put you on the rowing machine. You rowed like 15K a day, which sucked. The rowing machine is awful. It was just hardcore, man.
David Millar
I picked up alcohol around like 15, 16. I was drinking for a while, but at my extreme personality, I was like I wanted more, I wanted more, I wanted more. Started smoking weed. Um I was a lifeguard on the beach and that was basically just a fraternity in the summertime. It was just everybody partied and I picked up cocaine uh at a lifeguard party. I did it and
Ken Rideout
How old were you?
David Millar
I was 16.
Ken Rideout
16 when you found cocaine?
David Millar
Yeah, it was it was very quick. Like I started drinking and I just like I wanted to go all in and I really didn't hold back and I thought alcohol was my thing at the time, but when I did that first line of cocaine, it was just that was my thing. That was what I loved to do. It made me feel just uh made me feel like Superman and uh from that point on, I immediately like went to the guy who gave me the bump and I was like, let me get the number of whoever gives you that stuff.
I got it I got the number. I got plugged in. Um I started introducing it to my friend group at high school. I was with other 16-year-olds. Um you know, we're all doing it and it and from that point on I mean I was just always the guy. Like I was always the guy that if you wanted to get blow you were coming to me. I had all the numbers. I had the connect. I had a guy that literally would drive it would drive it and drop it off to wherever we were.
You know, I had a guy that did cash app. I had a guy that did Venmo. I had a guy that did cash. I had and I was always the one to like pushing it. I was always the one in my group where I was like, yo like it's got a bag tonight.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
And that ate at me man because like I just I always knew like I had like I knew I thought differently than my friends did with it. I knew I had a problem. I knew I was always the one like pushing it. And I just always wanted to do it. Like I didn't I didn't care. I didn't care how much money it was. I didn't care if I was going to drain my bank. I didn't care. I wanted to do it. I wanted to feel good.
Ken Rideout
How did you handle like the hardest thing for me with doing coke was I was literally suicidal when it would run out and I would be trying to go to sleep and the sun would be up and I'd be like, why did I do this? I've ruined an entire day of my life. The sun's out. See someone running by and you're like, I haven't been to sleep yet and that guy's out working out and already slept 8 hours last night. I want to die.
David Millar
I just did more.
Ken Rideout
But eventually when it runs out will you would you go into like
David Millar
I would, yeah.
Ken Rideout
Serious depression?
David Millar
Yes.
Ken Rideout
Cuz I had friends that could go to sleep, wake up the next day and be normal and I'm like, dude, how are you normal? Like I am suicidal.
David Millar
No, I would wake up my skeleton I mean I my skeleton would be like vibrating. I'd be just That's the reason I ended up in the psych wards cuz I was just I mean I was I was out of it. That stuff it drains like all your happy chemicals.
Ken Rideout
100%. That's the worst.
David Millar
Have nothing left and the worst is like the yeah the birds start chirping, the sun's coming up, the night's over. You're running low on like whatever the [ __ ] you bought last night. You don't even have any more. Worst feeling ever man.
And occasionally I would like take a Xanax or something if I if I had it, right?
Ken Rideout
To the point where I wouldn't even buy coke if they didn't have Xanax cuz I knew I cannot if I can't go to sleep I'm going to lay here for like 6 hours contemplating suicide.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
If I can at least get some Xanax, I'll take the whole Xanax bar. Okay, maybe I'll risk my life, but at least I'll go to sleep.
David Millar
Right. Yeah, I never really thought about like I just thought about the instant gratification. I didn't even think about the the downside of doing it. I feel like I was also just in love with the idea of being a drug addict. Like it almost became something that I I idolized in a way. Like I was just I was just about that life. I was just I didn't care. I was down to I was down to be sad after I did it and then I was down to wake up in a the next day or something, go get more, feel happy again, and then feel sad.
I was just in love with the chaos and the lifestyle of being a junkie.
Ken Rideout
Before you developed a drug problem, would you have called yourself a nerd when you were just running and growing up? Or would you say like, "No, I was running and stuff, but I was definitely not a nerd." Cuz I'm wondering if like maybe you identified as like maybe your insecurity was like, "I'm a nerd, but if I'm a drug addict, maybe I'll be seen as like cool or accepted by at least the other druggies."
David Millar
Not really. I was definitely I had a big social life even before I started drinking. I was never really a nerd. I never did good in school is the other thing, which is a lot of people find surprising. Like I I got an 800 something on my SAT. That's like
Same.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, that's like
An 800 on my PSATs and then I think a 900 on my SATs. That was For years I was so embarrassed I'd lie. And I would never tell anyone.
David Millar
So So would I.
Ken Rideout
I was like, "Oh my god, I'm [ __ ] cha- I'm like mentally challenged."
David Millar
It's funny cuz now I put it out everywhere. I'm like, "Yeah." But it's just like people are so delusional because they see at med school and all that stuff and I'm just like work ethic is so much more important than natural intelligence.
Ken Rideout
The only
David Millar
100%
Ken Rideout
Same thing with talent. Like talent that doesn't work hard is useless.
David Millar
No. Especially med school, it's just all about discipline and work ethic. That's it. I mean, if you got like the genes and you're like naturally intel- Like for sure, there's people like that. There's people that can read a line out of a textbook that remember it for the rest of their lives. For sure. But they're few and far in between and if you have work ethic, it's going to take you so much farther. That's why I share all that all that [ __ ] online and I'm kind of just like I've detached my identity from my SAT score.
It took took me a while, but I'm just like whatever because it's just like people need to know that like that [ __ ] shouldn't hold you back from doing what you want to do. If I if I was still attached to my SAT score, I would have never applied to med school cuz I would have just been like I I I don't have it in me, right? But [ __ ] that, you know?
Ken Rideout
I always tell people in this world in this life, especially in this country, you can do anything you want to do. There's a difference between being willing and being able, right? If you're willing to do something like if you want to be uh a neuroscientist, you can do it. Here's There's a road map out there. This is what you have to do and it takes extreme discipline and work ethic, but you can do it if you're willing. Everyone is able. It's just if you're willing to put in the work.
You can be an astronaut if you're willing to sacrifice. You can be a world champion runner if you're willing to do this work. The problem is not many people are willing. Everyone is able, but not many people are willing to do what it takes and you're a perfect example. Like you don't identify or you didn't identify as an intelligent like academically like superior student, but now you're embracing one of the more difficult academic journeys, right? To be a not just uh uh doctor, but a surgeon.
And that journey takes, like you said, extreme discipline more than natural intellect because you can discipline your way to like learning and absorbing everything you need to know, whereas some kids might have to study like a third of the time.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
But like I said, it's just a matter of if you're willing to do it cuz you're able to do anything you really want for all intents and purposes.
David Millar
Yeah, and that's why I think that, you know, being having the addiction problem and being somebody in recovery, I think is such a gift because you can kind of use that that drive to feel good. Ultimately, it's to feel good, right? Like people think you get sober and you just never feel good again. That's not my experience. I'm still in the business of feeling good. I love feeling good, man. I love it. The feeling I get when I finish a 100-mile race, the feeling I get when I get accepted into medical school, the feeling I get when I pick up that that 7-year sober coin,
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
You know, it's the same chemicals going off in my brain as that crack cocaine hit.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
It's very similar. Except it's real. It's real. I'm not injecting something into my system to make me feel good. It's all reality. I did that. I did that. It was nothing else. So, when you have enough of those experiences and you let sobriety iterate in your life and you're getting those wins and wins and wins and they're real wins. And they're real they're they're you know, you're attaching the feeling to the work ethic and the grind. It's an amazing experience and it's all about feeling good.
Sobriety's all about feeling good. That's been my experience. I do not relate to people that are like, "Yeah, I got sober and my life's been miserable." I've not had that experience. My life's been beautiful. I would have never expected to be doing half the things that I'm doing today when I was, you know, coming into that last detox that last time in 2019 and just totally strung out and not sure how I was going to get sober at 20 years old. No way.
Ken Rideout
Back to like the origin story. So, you start doing cocaine. Now you're like the guy. You got a you got the connect. You're doing it. How does that evolve and what's the next step in the uh drug journey? Like how do you graduate to like crack and what else were you doing?
David Millar
I'm at college. I'm in a nursing program at college and
Ken Rideout
School?
David Millar
At Widener University.
Ken Rideout
And why nursing? Doesn't seem like the career the It doesn't seem like the academic path of someone who doesn't identify as intelligent. And that's got to be one of the hardest jobs in the world.
David Millar
It is. And
Ken Rideout
There's nowhere to hide there.
David Millar
Yeah, it's it's a hard schooling experience as well. And I'm honestly surprised I got into it, literally one program and it was at Widener. I'm not sure how I got in with my SAT score and my mom really helped me out cuz I think she was really worried about me. She kind of seen, you know, just the way I was living and anyway, I get in and I'm doing nursing for like a year and dude, I'm just I'm [ __ ] sick of it because I'm at school to party.
I'm at school to, you know, do drugs and to just live that lifestyle and that and the only reason I'm doing nursing or school at all is so that my, you know, people are off my back. It looks good from the outside and so I can go secretly do my thing. And, you know, when you're living a life like that, even if drugs aren't involved, if you're just living a life to like, you know, get this false sense of external validation, it doesn't last. And it's going to fall apart.
And that's exactly what happened to me. And I'm just doing more drugs and more drugs and now I got like this anxiety like you're talking about, I got this anxiety and depression going on because I'm just messing with my head like all weekend by, you know, sniffing cocaine, doing Adderall, stuff like that. And typical addict thinking, I start thinking I just got anxiety generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder. Like it's it's definitely not the drugs. It's just this is this is the way my brain chemistry is cuz that's kind of the world we live in today, too.
It's just like, oh yeah, I got, you know, not saying that that is not real. I'm just saying that like it's just an easy thing to just pawn it off on. For me it was. So I'm thinking that and then I'm seeing psychiatrist, they're putting me on meds. That's not doing me any good cuz now I'm just doing all these psych meds with the cocaine or with the alcohol or with whatever.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
I [snorts] just gave up, man. I gave up. I stopped going to class. I stopped showing up to tests and I took a leave and took a leave from school. I would have just dropped out but my mom actually, and I don't know if I would have gotten into med school if my mom didn't contact my school and she was like, no, like my son needs to take a medical leave. I just I just [ __ ] left. But she kind of contacted the school. She was like, on his transcript you need to make sure this is like a medical leave.
And I came home and they kind of just like chalked it up to like mental health. So, I come home and at that point I'm I don't have school as a responsibility anymore. I literally got all the free time in the world and like I said, I'm like I'm just going to get high.
Ken Rideout
And it's just you and your mom?
David Millar
Yeah, and my parents are divorced, right? So, my my dad uh big drinker and I'm kind of just like using their divorce against them. So, I'm staying at my mom's house for 2 weeks. She gets sick of my [ __ ] and then I go to my dad's house and then my my dad would kick me out. By the time my dad would kick me out, my mom was ready to take me back. So, I'd be bouncing back and forth for a place to live. Eventually, none of them were letting me live there and then I'm just like kind of on my own in the woods in Atlantic City um or going back down to detox or rehab, hitting the reset button and then hopefully
Ken Rideout
Woods?
David Millar
Yeah, in
Ken Rideout
What the [ __ ] that mean?
David Millar
It's
Ken Rideout
You would I have a tent?
David Millar
Yeah, I would just sleep sleep in the woods.
Ken Rideout
In a tent?
David Millar
I would just I not in a tent. I would just sleep outside in the woods.
Ken Rideout
And and were you at this point like on drugs 24/7?
David Millar
24/7, yeah. So, I would I would like leave my house, right? And there was one time I left and my mom actually caught they they couldn't find me. They were looking for me. At this point I'm kind of like suicidal because I'm I'm out literally out of my head and uh my mom actually called uh the state troopers and there was like uh they issued like a search party on me. So, there's like helicopters
Ken Rideout
In the woods?
David Millar
Yeah, well I'm in the woods. They can't find me.
Ken Rideout
Okay.
David Millar
Um and they're looking for me and then you know, my friends from high the few friends I had left from high school are like hitting me up. They're like, "Dude, like you need to you need to come back home. Like people are worried about you."
Ken Rideout
Okay.
David Millar
Dude, it was it was mayhem. Um I remember waking up in the woods one morning. I had like a I like passed out and I was just literally just sleeping on like a pile of leaves and I'm getting like poked in the neck by something and I like turned my head. It's like a [ __ ] turkey poking me in the neck, bro. And I wake up and my first
My first thought is like I need to go get another bag. I need to go feel good.
Yeah. Which is [ __ ] up. It's [ __ ] up. And where are you getting the money? Uh stealing. Stealing the money. Family.
Ken Rideout
So you would steal it from your parents. Yeah. But if once they stop letting you in the house, what would you do?
David Millar
I would just walk into liquor stores and steal booze.
Ken Rideout
Okay. So you would just drinking that much daily?
David Millar
As Yeah, I mean I was whatever I could get my hands on at that point, right? Like if I I mean drugs were my preference, but if I had to if I had to resort to walking into a liquor store and just, you know, putting some [ __ ] in my jacket, then that's what I was going to do.
Ken Rideout
And did you ever get caught stealing? Cuz liquor store guys that I know, if they catch you stealing, will beat the [ __ ] out of you.
David Millar
No, I never got caught. I never got caught. I did it in Jersey. I did it in Florida, too, a bunch when I They sent me down to Florida for rehab and detox, and sometimes I'd stay at the detox the full time, but other times I'd get down there and I just I would just [ __ ] dip. And again, go to the woods in Florida.
Light a little fire, and then go and find like a like a I forget what they're called down there. Like they're like a CVS or something, but they they sell booze at like everywhere down in Florida. I don't know if it's like that here. And I would just walk in there and just put it put it in my jacket, walk out, go back to my spot in the woods.
Ken Rideout
And then would you link with other like boozers or
David Millar
Not down there. Not down there. I would I would kind of just like sit in the woods.
I'd have like a fire going, and I remember this one spot I was at in Florida. It was like right by a a restaurant, so I'd just be like drinking the whole day. And when I got hungry, I would just walk out the woods, and there's like a nice restaurant, like a seafood restaurant, right by the woods I was sleeping in. And I would just stand out there, and the people would come out of the restaurant, and I'd be like, "I'm hungry. Like, can you please give me some food?" I look like a [ __ ] maniac.
I got like my hands are all muddy, cuz I'm in the woods like lighting fires. And they would just like look at me like I was like I was nuts. They would give me their food, though. Are they leftovers? Yeah, their leftovers.
So that's kind of how I survived. It's just like chaos, man. Like it was just It was [ __ ] absurd. And I just thought that that was how my life was going to be cuz like I said, I made that decision on on my way home from Widener. I was like, I'm going to [ __ ] get high for the rest of my life. I don't care if it kills me. This is what I'm going to do. I give up. I'm done I'm done trying.
Ken Rideout
Even the turkeys didn't want you there.
David Millar
No.
Ken Rideout
So, they sent you down to the detox. And what are they detoxing you from? Coke and booze?
David Millar
Coke and booze, but so typically if And if you If you're smart, you'll do this in detox. You actually can't You can't die from uh cocaine or heroin. So, if you go to detox and typically if you tell them that you're detoxing from like something like an opiate or a stimulant, they won't give you any uh like benzos to kind of help you. Sometimes they will cuz they don't want to make it comfortable for you. Theoretically, they don't have to because it can't kill you. I would always say I was doing um like benzos and alcohol specifically because I knew that if I said that, they would have to give me like Klonopin or something to help me like ease off the the booze, yeah.
Ken Rideout
The first detox you get to Is it voluntary or do your parents send you?
David Millar
Um my parents were always kind of the ones sending me. They were at first, they were like almost like loving me like too much through it and it was kind of enabling me and then eventually they like cut back and they were kind of showing me like tough love. So, detoxes were never really involuntary um but for psychiatric wards, I'd say I think I went to like five and I think four out of five were involuntary stays because I was like a danger to myself. So, they would commit me to stay there for I I don't know what the law is.
I think it's like 72 hours you have to stay until you're cleared by a psychiatrist that you can you can leave.
Ken Rideout
But is the first step though when you're starting to like get to the end of the run, they first send you to the detox in Florida. That's like the first stop?
David Millar
Yeah. So, you're talking about the last run up until I got sober this time around.
Ken Rideout
No, like when you when when the problem starts to spiral, you come home from college, they like the first rehab is
David Millar
To a psych ward. The psych ward is the first place I go.
Ken Rideout
And that's involuntary?
David Millar
That's involuntary, yeah.
Ken Rideout
What happens when you get there?
David Millar
I don't realize that it's involuntary. So, I'm in the ED actually. I'm like strung out in the emergency department in Atlantic City. I'm in like the psychiatric hold unit. The psych The psychiatrist comes in and talks to me and I kind of open up to her and tell her everything that's going on. I'm like, yeah, I'm like suicidal. I don't feel good. Like I don't tell her I'm like doing drugs, I don't think cuz I really tried to hide that and a lot of people didn't really know I I was doing drugs.
I was very good at hiding it. They kind of just thought it was like a psychiatric slip or something.
Ken Rideout
Interesting.
David Millar
Um so, she's talking to me and I and I kind of just like confide in her and then she's like, okay, like you got to go to inpatient. I'm like, what the [ __ ] you mean? I got I'm I'm like I'm leaving." Um and I start freaking out because I I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't know they can involuntarily commit you somewhere, you know, based on what you say to the doctor.
Ken Rideout
So, okay. So, she says you're going to inpatient. You say I'm leaving. What happens then?
David Millar
They like give me the uh sedative [ __ ] because I'm freaking out. Um so, they basically like
Ken Rideout
What's a sedative?
David Millar
So, it's like the shot that you get in in your ass if you're like freaking the [ __ ] out and you're trying you're like fighting the security guards and [ __ ] like that. Um they didn't give me the shot in the ass. They I got like pinned down on the bed and they were like, "You need to take these pills." And I took the pills and there's like benzos, sedatives. I kind of like chilled out after I took them. They took me to an inpatient psych ward.
I was at the psych ward for maybe like a week or two. They detox you there. Um you got to get cleared by the psychiatrist, you know, they get your family involved. They're like, "We think we should send him somewhere for aftercare." Um you know, I'm in the psych ward with a bunch of [ __ ] lunatics. It It's It's honestly
Ken Rideout
At what point do you realize like, "Holy [ __ ] I'm in a psych ward and I can't leave."?
David Millar
Uh like right when I had the conversation with the psychiatrist and she's like, "We're involuntarily committing you to a psych ward where you can't leave until you get cleared by another psychiatrist."
Ken Rideout
So, that's when you That's
David Millar
So, I I freaked out. And then they gave me a handful of sedatives cuz they cuz cuz the security guards were like holding me down on the bed.
Ken Rideout
Okay. So, when those sedatives wear off and you're now in the psych ward, what
David Millar
There's nothing I can do. I just I have to stay there.
Ken Rideout
Wait. What What do you mean? Are you like You're not in handcuffs?
David Millar
Yeah, but you can't leave. It's like a locked down facility. There's like security guards.
Ken Rideout
To leave?
David Millar
No.
Ken Rideout
Why?
David Millar
I be I don't know how I would have left, to be honest with you. It's a very controlled environment. You don't even have your own clothes because they basically take away If you are to commit suicide, you have no way of doing it. There's no door handles that you could like potentially hang yourself on. None of the doors lock. The Everything is nailed to the floor. You can't pick up a chair and [ __ ] toss it at someone cuz it's nailed to the floor. They have thought out everything.
You're in paper scrubs. Your scrubs like rip if you apply too much tension to them. So, you don't have clothes. You don't have shoes. Your shoe lace They take your shoe laces. They take your belts. Anything that you could use to like harm yourself or another person is gone. You're constantly monitored. You're constantly checked on. There's cameras everywhere.
Ken Rideout
Are the people kind to you? Do you
David Millar
The workers are kind, but it's just for me it was just like the I mean there's people there with some serious issues.
So, what it means is like you're interacting with them. Are you
I'm interacting. I'm like what the I'm just like It just makes you feel worse to be honest. And I'm just like I'm getting out of here and getting [ __ ] high. Like cuz that's just where my head was. And I end up in four more of those after that first time. And every time I hated psych wards. Like they were like my my least I still have PTSD about them. I'm like when I start thinking about it too much, I'm like holy [ __ ] that [ __ ] sucked.
You can't even lock the door when you're taking a shower. People walk in walk in checking on you in the shower because they want to make sure you're like okay, right? So, it's just like there's no privacy. And I end up in four more of those because of drinking and using. And I'm and I remember like number three or four I was standing in the shower and I was like I promise like I'm never coming back to a place like this. I'm going to get my [ __ ] [ __ ] together.
I'm never coming back. And then I I'd leave. I start getting high again.
Ken Rideout
Jeez.
David Millar
Just like It's just like a hard thing to to [ __ ] kick, man. It's just when you're in that cycle.
Ken Rideout
How did it it evolve from the coke to crack?
David Millar
Money, basically. And my guy kind of just hooking it up. I had a guy that would like he'd throw random [ __ ] in with like if I'd buy like an eight ball from him, he'd he'd throw in like some Molly. He'd throw in He'd throw in some crack. Yeah, he was he was really not good for me.
Ken Rideout
When he throws when he throws in the crack though, are you like dude what the [ __ ] is this? Or did you know it was crack?
David Millar
He told me it's hard. He's like it's hard. And I was like okay. I didn't know how to use it. I was like how the [ __ ]
Ken Rideout
Mean. He says hey I threw in some crack.
David Millar
He didn't call it crack. He called it like something cooler and I was like I'm down.
Ken Rideout
Okay.
David Millar
And yeah he's like tin foil. Put on tin foil.
Ken Rideout
Okay and then what?
David Millar
And then it's smoke crack and then
Ken Rideout
Understand though it goes on the tin foil and then you
David Millar
It tends so you you light it under the tin foil and then it it melts and then the smoke comes up and it's it's a very like if you have a pipe it's a way [ __ ] easier but I don't have I didn't have a glass or like a crack or meth pipe so I you can use tin foil and you kind of like suck up the smoke.
Ken Rideout
Okay. And then what was that high like?
David Millar
It's it's [ __ ] amazing man like it feels it feels amazing. It's like just cocaine on steroids basically but it lasts way longer and then you're just like 10 times more paranoid and you're like seeing [ __ ] after and it's just like you're you run out so quickly. In my opinion it it [ __ ] sucks. I mean the high is cool but it's like it's so short-lived. You're better off
Ken Rideout
Oh it's short-lived. You said it lasts longer than cocaine.
David Millar
No sorry no no it's short it's short it's short high but the high itself is way more intense.
Ken Rideout
Okay so it's a short-term thing so you want to use more and more and more.
David Millar
You want to use more and more and more. You run out quicker. It's really like it's cheaper but it's really like not cuz you just have to [ __ ] buy more all the time. Same thing with coke like coke kind of sucks too cuz it's just like what you're going to do coke and get high for [ __ ] 30 minutes and then what?
Ken Rideout
To be honest with you after the first like line of cocaine I think that each one gets progressively like not as satisfying.
And then it's just like then you just like avoiding the inevitable of like dealing with the fact that you have to try to go to sleep at some point.
David Millar
Yeah I I would get that way toward the end. I got that way more with like Molly. Have you ever done Molly?
Ken Rideout
No.
David Millar
Yeah that that [ __ ] that would always like I would be so jittery after I did that [ __ ] I like wouldn't even be able to sleep even though I'd been up for like over 24 hours.
Ken Rideout
Yeah I don't like that.
David Millar
But I would say that if I ever was introduced to crystal meth which thank god I never was, but if I was, I think that would have been my drug. I just I'd never I never had anybody that introduced me to it, but I went to treatment with a lot of people that were meth heads, and they would always tell me about it, and that it's it's like a just stronger Adderall, but it lasts like hours. The high lasts hours, very euphoric. I was just always a stimulant person.
I just thought they were more exciting and fun. I would I wouldn't want to like do something and then like fall asleep. I always wanted to like do something and feel like I was productive or feeling I could like [ __ ] take over the world or whatever it was. Those were always my favorite. It was like It was mainly cocaine, Adderall, and then drinking booze in between because booze is kind of just like always available, could kind of always get if I had to steal it or whatever.
So, those were those were my things, yeah.
Ken Rideout
So, after the fourth stay in the psych ward, like what what eventually clicked and had you thinking like, "Okay, I can not only can I get sober, but I can like turn this around?"
David Millar
So, I It was like a process. It wasn't just like a one kind of decision thing. I remember going to uh I went to detox actually for this last time around in 2019, and I get to detox, and I meet some kids that are like actually my age. I'm 20 years old at the time. I just turned 20. Um so, I'm not even legally allowed to have a drink yet. And I meet these kids at the treatment center in Florida, and they're just fired up about recovery, and they're fired up about, you know, staying sober, and you know, getting better, living a better life, like, you know, everything.
Like everything about it. And typically, when you go to treatment, everybody is [ __ ] negative. Everybody's trying to leave. And I love that [ __ ] cuz I'm also negative, too. So, I love like going to rehab and chopping it up about like some negativity. Like I got [ __ ] bigger fish to fry. I got to get out of here. In real In reality, like I'm just going to go home and start getting Like everybody is. Everybody's just going to go home and start getting high.
The the success rate of of a lot of these places is still like so low. It's crazy. But, I'm at this place, and these kids are just like excited about it, man. Like I don't I don't know what it was. Like, and they were from PA, too. They were from like Bloomsburg area, and they were the only young kids at the treatment center I was at. So, like, I was like forced to hang out with them because it was either hang out with them or hang out with like the 60-year-old dad that's like divorced, kids don't talk to him, and like there's just a lot going on there.
So, I'm just like, I'm going to hang out with these kids, even though they're like kind of [ __ ] nerds, and they're not really like they don't have the attitude. The attitude that I should have, but I don't have. So, I'm hanging out with these kids, and it just it just kind of wears off on me a little bit, and I just kind of get open-minded. I'm just like, what would happen? What would happen if I stayed sober? What What would happen if I got sober at 20 years old, and and just let sobriety iterate and just like stack in my life, and and have 10 years of sobriety by the time I'm 30, and 20 years of sobriety by the time I'm 40?
Like, what would that look like? What if I went through my whole entire 20-year-old life as somebody who's sober? And the idea just kind of brought excitement into me and like possibility. And I just [ __ ] rode that idea, dude. I [ __ ] rode it all the way. I was open-minded. I was like, you know what? I'm going to stay down in Florida. I'm not going home. I'm going to get [ __ ] high again. Like, who am I kidding? I'm going to get high again.
The second I get home, I'm going to get high. I'm going to [ __ ] hit up my guy. I still got his number. I'll [ __ ] It doesn't matter if I don't have a car. I'll [ __ ] bike to it. Cuz that's how we are, man. Like, if we want something, like, we get like still still to this day. If I want something, dude, I [ __ ] like I'm willing to work to get it. So, I'm like, it's best for me to stay down in Florida.
I stay down in Florida. I get an opportunity after a 30-day treatment center down in Florida to fly out to LA to do like a year-long structured living like boot camp-esque treatment out there.
Ken Rideout
Get that opportunity?
David Millar
Um I was looking online. I was at I was at this uh place in Florida. It like It It was just like kind of like a shitty like like um sober living. Like, everybody was kind of just like just just work just doing like the normal [ __ ] Everybody's older than me. It just wasn't really like engaging enough for me, I guess. I had like some low-key job at like Planet Fitness and I'm just like I'm doing okay, but like I need something else. So I'm like looking at these treatment centers.
I just always wanted to go out west and I get in contact with this guy, his name's Matt Fidlow. He's like one of the admissions guys for this place out there and he's like, "Bro, I just you know, let's let's get your family involved and like I'll get you I'll get you a bed." So he like works it out with my family. He's like, "Dude, you fly out here like next week or some [ __ ] like that." And I'm just like, "Fuck it, I'm going to go do it." I go out to this place, bro, super intense.
They take your phone you don't have a phone, you can't leave the house by yourself. It's like you wake up at the same time every day, you make your bed every day, hardcore accountability, you're holding your roommates accountable. There's a whole like accountability system. You're writing essays every day for [ __ ] that you do wrong. Yeah, you got to turn in you got to write like turn in your essays at the end of the day. If you don't, your essays double the next day. You got to clean your dishes.
You got to hold your roommates accountable. There's group There's accountability groups. It's just a whole new way of living that I had no experience with.
Ken Rideout
Like a behavioral modification camp, like what Chris Herren went to.
David Millar
Yes, yeah, exactly like that. So I do a year
Ken Rideout
And and it's and it's strict though, it's like boot camp, right? Like if you [ __ ] up, they like put you on like work duty, like
David Millar
Yeah, you got to do chores. We had one guy [ __ ] up, they made him sleep in the driveway. He wasn't allowed in the house. He They would He had a sleeping bag, he slept in the driveway and he had another roommate would just bring him out food three times a day. He had to sit in the driveway just write his words. Once he he had like 25,000 words he had to write or something. Once he finished his words, he was allowed back in the house.
Um just crazy [ __ ] like that. But dude, it was no
Ken Rideout
Did it cost money?
David Millar
Yeah, it did. Yeah. I think it was around It's different for every client. I think I was paying like maybe two grand a month to live there and I had like some family help me out with that when I initially got there, but then you get a job and you start kind of taking it on yourself.
Ken Rideout
So you can leave can't you can leave the house to work?
David Millar
Eventually, you you build up to that, right? So when you first got there, you're kind of just you're you're very monitored, you're going to groups, you're you know, uh you're meeting with like therapists, and you're kind of just like going to like 12-step meetings, getting plugged in, and then like as you continue to show that like you're committed, they'll be like, "All right, like you can you can get a flip phone." So, they'll give you like a flip phone, and then you go on job search, and uh you basically just print out like 50 resumes, and you're the only thing you have to do all day is like walk around LA and just like giving paper resumes out until somebody hires you, and then you start working.
Ken Rideout
Where in LA is it?
David Millar
Culver City.
Ken Rideout
Oh, so right in the like with that's right in the heart of everything.
David Millar
Yeah, it was great. It was honestly great for me. It was exactly what I needed. It sucked, though. It was tough, cuz it's just living with that like discipline when you don't really want to be disciplined. Now I see the benefit and the beauty and everything about it, but at the time it's just you don't really understand it until until you start like stacking the wins, and then you kind of look back, and you're just like, "Holy [ __ ] like that place taught me so much."
Ken Rideout
Were there physical requirements, too? Like, did you guys work out? Did they have fitness requirements?
David Millar
So if you were like if you were if you weren't working out enough, or if you if you were like Basically, if you weren't working out enough, they'd put you on something called an action item, and that would mean that you had to work out a certain amount of times every week, and then get one of your roommates to check you off. There's a big check-off sheet. And so, they'd go work out, they get back home, and then maybe my roommate would come to me and be like, "Hey, can you check me off?
I just worked out for an hour." I'd check him off. If they don't work out four times a week, or whatever the action item is, they get essays. So, they have to write about it.
Ken Rideout
Would anyone ever say like, "Hey, I didn't work out, too. Just check me off this week."
David Millar
Yeah, all the time, but then you'd get [ __ ] too, cuz eventually somebody's going to like eventually someone's going to pull your covers.
Ken Rideout
By them even asking you, you could be like, "Dude, you're putting me in a terrible spot. I'm doing everything right." Would people do that and be like, "Fuck, no, dude. Are you crazy? You know what this is what this is all about."
David Millar
On the group of people that were there. I had a really solid group of people there. The people that were kind of like the almost like the graduate the people almost graduating the time I was there like had set like this culture in place almost that was very just serious and intense. And it was it was all about just prioritizing your sobriety. Like keeping your sobriety number one, which is an idea that I'm still like very in support of. I think sobriety sobriety for me needs to be number one under any and all circumstances.
If I lose my sobriety, I lose everything.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
I know I'll go right back to to where I was. And it'll be worse cuz I see I see people do that all the time. I see people pick up and [ __ ] die that are like that are like my age that are doing the same [ __ ] that I was doing from the same guy I was getting [ __ ] from. So it's just like I take it very seriously, man. And and it it needs to remain number one in my life and that's what that house taught me cuz I remember we'd all sleep in bunk beds.
And uh the one of the first nights I was there it was like 4:00 in the morning and uh my bunk beds rattling cuz the bunk beds are a pieces of [ __ ] and like if someone's moving around it rattles and my roommate's getting up at like 4:00 in the morning so he can go like down to a 12-step meeting before he goes to work a 12-hour shift cuz you know he's not going to be able to hit a meeting after his shift that goes on for 12 hours um because the thing about this house was even if you were working, even if you got the you know things back in your life like the girlfriend or the family or the money or the job or whatever, you still had to go to a meeting every day.
Even if that meant you had to wake up at 4:00 a.m. and bike your ass there. So I started seeing this example that these people were setting in the house and I'm just like damn like if I want to stay sober like I got to [ __ ] take this [ __ ] seriously, too. And that's like kind of what built like this whole entire like my whole entire life basically is is that idea of just like I need to keep sobriety number one. I need to make sure I stay sober under any and all circumstances.
Ken Rideout
You you mentioned girlfriends. You could have a girlfriend while you're living there?
David Millar
Yeah, like you know people come there that are like with like you know they're married and [ __ ] like that. They have like long-term girlfriends.
Ken Rideout
How do they what do they do? They allow you like a conjugal visit or a
David Millar
Kind of, yeah. It again again it depends like how long you've been at the house. Like if you just got there, you're typically on like a blackout period where they're they're like you have you got no contact with the outside world, basically. Until you prove that like you actually want to be at this place, that you you can't [ __ ] talk to anybody.
Ken Rideout
Running the show?
David Millar
Uh just people over there that are also sober that went through these houses. And it's sad because these houses are actually like they're they're a dying breed now. Um a lot of because people are like people are hearing about it like getting sober and stuff and and they're kind of like [ __ ] that. I don't want to not have my phone for 12 months. I want to go somewhere that lets me like, you know, marijuana maintenance or whatever the [ __ ] It's just it's a dying breed and and it's a shame because if I if I didn't go to a house like that and I just kept going to the regular rehabs I was going to, man, like I don't know if I would have made it out to be honest with you.
Ken Rideout
You like to do it.
David Millar
A kick in the ass. I needed to learn how to be a [ __ ] adult. I I had no like real-life skills. That house taught me like so it taught me the importance of prioritizing sobriety. It taught me the importance of fitness. I fell in love with running at that house. I fell in love with like real relationships with real men who were actually going to like have my best interest in mind. I never had relationships like that in my whole entire life until I went to a house like that.
So then it set up this whole idea of like everybody I met, everybody I still meet now goes through a filter. I'm like, would would this guy be good for me? If I let this guy into my life, like would he be good for me? Would he hold me accountable? You know, because a lot of people like that's just like that's not their deal, you know? They want to like make you They don't want to like step on your toes. But if you're somebody like in recovery, you need people to step on your toes because it's just like I got a lot of defects going on.
I got to make sure I keep myself in check, you know?
Ken Rideout
Yeah, I know. That's a great point. I had never heard it I never heard it said like that before, but um So, you do a year at this house?
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
What was the most challenging parts of it?
David Millar
The wait. Just waiting and uh going through the pain of early recovery. It was tough for me. I I had no idea how I was going to function as someone in their 20s and I was never going to be able to have a drink of alcohol or use cocaine again. How I was supposed to have fun. I had nobody like what I do online, I really do because I want people to look at me and be like, okay, like he got sober when he was 20 or whatever.
Maybe I can do that, too. I want to like set that example. I had nobody setting that example for me. I didn't know what it looked like to get sober at the age I got sober at and still be able to like have fun or live like a successful life or, you know, talk to women or whatever. Just like the the most basic of things. Like I always needed a substance to make myself feel better or excited or motivated or whatever. I needed the thought of the weekend so where I could like, you know, have a few beers with my buddies to like motivate me to get me to the weekend.
So I had no idea like what my life was going to look like. I I didn't know anything about myself. I'd been numbing everything. I had I haven't I hadn't sat with reality at all. I had no idea who I was. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had no idea what I even had in me. And so, you know, I had to spend that year just like in this like self-analyzation period of like, holy [ __ ] like there's a I have like a lot to figure out.
Um, and, you know, couple that with the way that your mind and your body reacts to coming off of intense drugs like alcohol and cocaine. Like my nervous system like I was shot for a while. Like I I had a resting tremor for like a year. You know, my nervous system was all dysregulated. I was like almost had like this self-in or like drug-induced like anxiety and depression going on because my brain was just all [ __ ] up from what I was putting in my body.
So just that was the toughest part, I think. And getting to a point where until I got to the point where I was like, okay, like maybe this sobriety thing like is actually going to be beneficial and like is like I believe in sobriety. That's the biggest thing for me right now. I believe in it. I didn't always believe in it. Um, but when I was at that house and when I eventually sat in the pain of my bad decision-making up until the point where I was like, "This might actually be able to [ __ ] work for me." I like, "I believe in this.
I think that this is so beneficial. I think it's beneficial to anybody who tries this way of life, even if you don't have a problem. I think it's the best way forward. I think that, you know, there's so much benefit to always being in reality. There's so much benefit to always being with you, to always having to face whatever life is throwing at you from a raw perspective and not have something to just go numb out and to just like distract yourself. I'm always like I always have to confront things that come to me like right away and I have to get down and dirty and just, you know, [ __ ] figure it out.
That's what sobriety has has taught me and I've seen like men turn into different men and I've seen, you know, God like really work on people throughout this process. And and until like I got to the point where I was like, "Okay, this is definitely like the best thing for me in terms of like where I want my life to go." I didn't feel better. But eventually you do get to that point.
Ken Rideout
You must look back on your life now and be like, "I can't believe that I'm this is the same person who was making these like crazy decisions." Cuz there's one thing to be like getting high occasionally, it's another thing to be like, "You know what? I'm all in. I'm just high 24/7." That's a different kind of like addiction. Hence, the involuntary involuntary commitment of being committed to a psych ward because that is crazy.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
When you look back on it now, are you like, "How did my brain sabotage me to that extent?" Because this is the exact polar opposite mindset of what it landed you in these places.
David Millar
Yeah, I mean, I think that the mindset's a little different, but I I really think it's it's still kind of similar in a lot of ways, like I was talking about. Like, I am very like I am an obsessive person. Like, if I find something that I want to do, I I do it to the extent. So, I'm almost like I'm careful with that, but also I'm kind of like I let myself get obsessed with things if I think it's the right thing to do. There is nothing in this world, there's no person that built something that was, you know, worthwhile and changed the trajectory of the world who wasn't obsessed with what they were doing.
And that's why I think that a lot of these addicts and alcoholics and people in recovery, which by the way there's a lot of, are sitting on this gold mine of a brain. They just need to figure out how to use it. You need to figure out how to direct your addictive personality toward something that you think, and this is the key, toward something that doesn't is not self-serving but serves the world. I think that is the I think that is how beautiful things are made.
I think that's how people change the world. I think, you know, the the best of the best human beings I think are addicted. They're just not addicted to drugs. They're addicted to a pursuit that's worthwhile. So, that's kind of the attitude that I really try to try to take with it. And I really do try to harvest a lot of my old thinking. I just try to harvest it and point it in a different direction than just self-serving and self-defeating things like drugs and alcohol. It's just obviously that's not going to work.
Obviously. But if you take an addict and you and and you tell them to like they can get addicted to anything else except drugs and alcohol. It's just like that that drive to like make something from to make something to get to a point where like you feel good and you feel fulfilled and you feel successful and you feel like okay with yourself. I mean, it's just like nobody's going to do that better than an addict, you know?
Ken Rideout
So, when you get out of that the behavioral modification house, where do you go from there?
David Millar
I go back to school cuz I I was in a lot of like pain that first year of sobriety just because you know, I was just suffering mentally and trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And like for whatever reason like I had this thought in my head that like gave me a lot of like peace and serenity. And it was it was just like me and like a library with like a cup of coffee just like doing like studying doing like some important work.
So, I'm just like and I would think about it all the time when I would get like stressed out or I was trying to fall asleep. So I was like maybe I should go back to school. Like maybe that's like a sign. So I go back to school. I fly back to to Philly and I go back to the spot the school I was in like gives me my seat back in the nursing program. And so I I continue with my classes there and I'm you know sober at this college and I'm you know at this point I'm like joining the cross country team cuz I'm trying to like make connections that are good for me.
Getting plugged in trying to meet sober people on the East and basically I I decide after being in school for a little bit and just having this different experience with school because like you know the last time I was at this university everything was the same. It's the same school, same professors, same degree. I was just strung out. So I wasn't showing up to class. Teachers had no idea who I was cuz I was never there. And then I come back sober and all of a sudden I'm like scoring highest in the class.
I'm sitting in the front of the class. Teachers know who I am. They're coming up to me after and they're like hey, I want you to help me out with like this research project I'm doing on the side and I'm like I'm game. And it's just like I'm having this experience where I'm just like all of a sudden a great student. And I never been a good student. I mean my SAT like everything up until that point I never been a good student. So I'm having this amazing experience and I'm just like maybe I could get into med school cuz the other thing with that is I'd gone through the health care system as someone who had a problem and I saw a lot of flaws in it.
There was just there's just things that I don't agree with and there's things that I would do differently. And so that kind of drove me. Once I got in the clinic as like a nursing student and I started seeing like what nurses actually did and I saw what doctors did, I was just like I want to be a [ __ ] I want to be a doctor. And I was around guys too like and it's like an important point too. Like I was around people who would push me to to be that.
They were like why the [ __ ] are you in nursing school? You should be a [ __ ] doctor. You're sober, aren't you? So it's just like I I had these people around me that were like pushing me. And um I just I I believed that I could do it. And I like I said, I was just like a different kind of student and um since being sober and I decided to take the risk and I was just like and it didn't add up. Like it was like I cuz I was dropping out of nursing school for a second time now.
The first time I dropped out I was go I was in a psych ward like shortly after. And then I'm calling my family, I'm like I'm dropping out again. My family's having like PTSD. They think I'm [ __ ] getting high again. I'm like I'm like I'm not. I'm not. I promise. Um and yeah, just took a risk and uh luckily it ended up working out.
Ken Rideout
Wait, when you say you were dropping out of nursing school, you're dropping out of nursing school to do to enter pre-med?
David Millar
To enter pre-med. I couldn't
Ken Rideout
Weren't dropping out. You were just changing courses.
David Millar
Right, but I had to give up my seat.
Ken Rideout
In the nursing program. I mean
Yeah. But did you get a seat in like pre-med? What what what did you transition into?
David Millar
Pre-med is just kind of it's kind of risky because medical school is like very uh competitive to get into. So, you could be a pre-med major and you could do your pre-med perfectly and then you could sit down and take this test called the MCAT. It's like an 8-hour long test.
Ken Rideout
Yep. Yep.
David Millar
You could sit down and do that and you could do terribly on it and it's just like you're not getting into med school. And then you just got to [ __ ] figure it out.
Ken Rideout
What do you have a degree in? Like
David Millar
A degree in psychology.
Ken Rideout
Okay.
David Millar
Yeah. Um so, that would have I guess been my backup plan at the time. But I was pretty set on getting in. Um so, I graduated undergrad. I took like a I took like a year to kind of get some clinical experience. I worked in the emergency department in Atlantic City for a little bit.
Ken Rideout
Doing what? Volunteering?
David Millar
No, I was like a tech. So, just like helping out. It just like helping out like nurses, doctors, um doing like minor stuff. Yeah, it was average average pay. But more more so for the clinical experience to put on my application into medical school. And um yeah, I ended up applying into medical school, which was a crazy experience because, you know, the reason I wanted to be a doctor and a physician is because I had this idea of like, you know, I went through the medical system as somebody who had a problem.
And so I like draft my whole entire medical school application to apply to schools and I you have to run your application by people at your school to make sure it's like okay and they give you feedback on it. So I basically like pour my heart out and I'm like, yeah, like I had this problem and um, you know, I had this like I'm sober now and I had this change uh, in my life and like I want to go into the medical school medical school for these reasons which I think makes a lot of sense.
Um, and these people were reading my application they're like you can't say this. This is like a red flag. If people know
Ken Rideout
Oh okay, so you had a you were in a psych ward and now you want to be a doctor. They're like just get out of town with this
David Millar
Yeah, so people are like if you say that you had a problem that it's a red flag and they won't let you in. Um, so I had to rewrite my whole entire application. I didn't talk about recovery once. I didn't say that I was sober. I had other cards that I could play luckily like the running at that point I was doing a lot of ultra running. So I could play that card. Um, and I'd done well enough in uh, school when I went back sober.
I had good enough grades and stuff like that. Did well enough in my MCAT that I that I did get in but the whole reason I want to be a doctor um, I was not allowed to talk about and well I guess I I was allowed to talk about but I potentially wouldn't have gotten in. Maybe I still would have gotten in. I don't know. But uh, the school that I'm at they have no idea like the real reason why I want to be a doctor which I just think is crazy.
Ken Rideout
Well they are now.
David Millar
Yeah, but now that I'm in I kind of have opened up a lot more about it because
Ken Rideout
That all the medical schools listen to this podcast.
David Millar
They do.
I hope they kick me out.
Ken Rideout
All right, so go ahead. So you you get in.
David Millar
I get in and um, that's basically where my life has been the past two two years and some change. I'm a second
Ken Rideout
That was two years ago. You've got two full years into medical school.
David Millar
Yeah, just about. Yeah.
Ken Rideout
Okay, and so when you get there are you overwhelmed by the work caseload or are you just like yeah, this is no this is nothing compared to what I've been through.
David Millar
A little bit. I mean it's definitely a challenge. It's very busy. Um but I think again, like I think just being someone who's sober, I think you have such a leg up on everybody else. My weekends, I don't drink. I don't go out to the bars on weekends. Instead, I spend that time either studying or doing social media, doing stuff like this.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
And you unlock a whole new level of work ethic when you're sober. You're never going to You're never going to beat the sober person. That's the thing. Like you're never going to beat the sober person because the sober person has every single weekend they're building. While the other people People my age are doing the traditional like going out to the bars and which is fine, but like that's not That's not moving the needle forward at all.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, cuz you're hung over in the morning. You waste the whole morning dragging your ass around.
David Millar
You waste the whole weekend and it bleeds into Monday because you just wrecked your consistency and it's just got to restart. You got to restart. And it's just like the sober person is literally stacking that Saturday, Sunday. That's 48 hours. That's 55 weeks or how many weeks are in a year just like iterated over time. You know what I mean? So, it's just like they're accumulating this just like massive work ethic and this massive leg up on people. So, I just went into medical school with the same thought process that I had in undergrad with like I sober weekends.
I think they're performance-enhancing drugs. I think that I think that you can get so much done um in the in the evenings and on the weekends as a sober person if if you're in like the right If you're passionate about what you're doing and and you know, you have like a drive and you really think that like you're seated in the right position, I think you can get a lot done. So, I kind of just rolled into it with that attitude. Um but it's still tough.
Ken Rideout
Yeah.
David Millar
It's still tough. It's tough to balance everything too, like the social media stuff. I do all that stuff on my own. Um the coaching I do all on my own. And then, you know, tossing in training and still trying to do some races here and there. It's a lot, but it's you know, I honestly believe that it's stuff that I really enjoy to do. So, it's That makes it a lot easier.
Ken Rideout
And what's the workload like in terms of the studies and I know you have to do time in the hospital at uh down in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Like what what is it what is a typical day or week look like?
David Millar
It depends what you're on. So, if you're doing like a surgery rotation, you're in the hospital for like 14 hours a day Monday through Friday and then you got to do some on-call shifts over the weekend. So, you're there for another 12 hours overnight. Um so, that's like I I don't know what the math is on that. I think it's like maybe a little shy of 80 hours per week as a student, right? So, you're not getting paid or anything like that. On top of this, you have to that you're tested very frequently.
Um so, you have to consistently be studying. There's times where I get home from the hospital. I am absolutely exhausted and wrecked and I can't even fathom opening my laptop and doing more work, but I have to sit there and do more work and do more questions. Um because, you know, especially for someone like me like I'm not going to pass a test if I don't really like prepare for the test and I hate not being prepared for things. So, I'm going to make sure I'm prepared for the test.
So, it's a lot of that, but it depends what you're on. Like if you're on something that's like less hardcore than surgery. Like I'm on pediatrics right now. It's still a grind, but it's like more clinic hours. So, it's like 9:00 to 5:00 kind of. So, you have more time to, you know, get home and eat dinner and do studying.
Ken Rideout
I find that um super structured busy schedule though helps with sobriety.
David Millar
It does.
Ken Rideout
Because you're like I don't know how anyone could be drinking or drugging while they're doing this not successfully because this workload is is insanely hectic.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
And then you're running on top of that. So, how much running you doing a week?
David Millar
Not a lot. Not as much as you.
Ken Rideout
You're strong though. I mean, we ran you we ran 10 miles effortlessly chit-chatting the whole way at 7:09 pace and I at times felt like Jesus Christ, this guy's pushing the pace though.
I mean, that happens sometimes when people run with me or you know, if someone is running with you, you tend to think like I I notice like people like half stepping me the whole time. I'm like at some point, I'm just not going to keep up. I'm just going to say this is too fast for me. But I also didn't want to disappoint, but you're definitely in really good shape. So, for running 40 mi a week, that was a really strong effort.
David Millar
Yeah, um and I don't always run 40 mi a week. There's some weeks I only run like 5 or 10 mi. It really just depends on my schedule. And again, I like to get in the gym as well. I don't like to have like the runner I try not to have like the runner's build. I like to have some muscle. Um so, I think just balancing those things typically in med school with everything going on, I really won't start like hardcore training unless I sign up for something.
The second I sign up for like 100K or 100 mi, I'll start doing I'll put together as many 80-mi weeks as I can.
Ken Rideout
Yep.
David Millar
Uh just to prepare my body and make sure I'm, you know, strong enough to do it. Um but typically that's like it I need to have like a good amount of of time if I am to sign up and make a commitment like that. But, I'm pretty consistently working out every day, uh whether it's running or in the gym. Again, it's just kind of depends what what I feel like doing. Typically, my weekend I spend running, uh and then my weekdays I'm in the gym.
Ken Rideout
You're in your third year of medical school. So, after this year, you what do you do? You start a residency?
David Millar
Yeah, you apply in the residency and then uh start residency. Residency's anywhere from like three to to seven years depending on the specialty that you want to go into.
Ken Rideout
Jeez. And you don't get paid very well, right?
David Millar
No, you get paid like [ __ ]
Ken Rideout
Um all right. So, what's the goal now? Like, do you know what you want to do when you get out of medical school? What do you want to specialize in?
David Millar
I really want to do surgery, but I mean, I'm kind of pulled a bunch of different directions. We were talking about the peptides today, um and you know, I'm kind of I think all that's interesting. I'm also pulled kind of toward like addiction medicine and stuff like that. Could see myself getting into that. Surgery, I just I love like using my hands. I love seeing the anatomy of the human body. Um I think it's super interesting and I'm always super engaged whenever I'm in the OR and I see people doing these crazy surgeries.
So, I'm kind of undecided, but yeah.
Ken Rideout
I think as we think about like peptide stuff, I think more than describing as peptide is more like functional medicine.
David Millar
Functional medicine.
Ken Rideout
Of like Mark Hyman approach, Dr. Clay Moss, those guys that are like the kind of on the cutting edge of like thinking about unconventional therapies and viewing health more like from a functional standpoint, which like we were talking about and you saying the textbook is still teaching that a healthy amount of alcohol is two drinks a day, 14 drinks a week, which is [ __ ] insane.
David Millar
We learn in medical school that the healthy limit to alcohol for a man is two drinks per day, which is 14 drinks a week, which is massively insane. Like that doesn't make any sense.
Ken Rideout
It's like suggesting that a couple cigarettes a day is okay for you.
David Millar
It's crazy because alcohol is also a class one carcinogen, which a lot of people do not know about. So, it's literally a substance that's been shown over and over and over again in the research to cause different types of cancers in your body. And the healthy healthy limit that we learn for a female, by the way, is one drink per day, which is seven drinks per week for a female, which is also pretty insane. And there's like a body of new research coming out that suggests that there is no safe level of consumption and risk begins at the very first drop.
But, you know, despite that, you have a bunch of future doctors still learning that the healthy amount of consumption is two drinks a day for a man for a man, which is insane. So, again, these are all things that this is the reason why I went into the field, though, because it's just, you know, I've I've seen things like this and like, you know, when I was when I was coming into detox and rehabs a bunch, that the first thing they do when they see somebody is they like to throw you on a handful of psychiatric medication.
And that was a that was a whole part of my story. I was on enough medication at one point for a paranoid schizophrenic, and I didn't need to be on all that medication. And the only reason they put me on that medication is because I was withdrawing from crack cocaine. So, obviously, I'm going to be in drug-induced psychosis. Obviously I'm going to be saying crazy things. That doesn't mean that you should immediately start somebody on a handful of psychiatric medications. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Um so, I went into medicine for those reasons because I do not agree with that way of treatment. And um luckily I I was able to kind of taper myself off all those medications. I don't take anything today. I feel great. I I really don't think I needed any of that. I just need to, you know, make sure I move my body every day, make sure I stay sober, and you know, prioritize my health.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, it's always interesting when people talk about um that they suffered with addiction, in particular cocaine, and they're like, "Yeah, I came back from the brink of uh suicidal depression and blah blah." Yeah, because anyone who's done cocaine has suicidal depression when they're when it's wearing off. So, it's kind of like, you don't need to treat this person for depression. You need to treat this person for addiction.
David Millar
Yes.
Ken Rideout
When they don't have cocaine, they don't have suicidal tendencies. And like, that is such a common misconception. And it's a narrative. And it's the like, in particular, there's a couple of fighters that talk about coming back from the brink of ending it all, blah blah blah, and just so happens to coincide with their suspensions for cocaine. And I'm like, well, of course you're depressed when you're doing cocaine. That's like the nature of the drug. It gets you so high that it, like you said, drains all the feel-good chemicals in your brain.
So, that when you're off the cocaine, those feel-good chemicals are completely depleted. So, it's completely normal to feel depressed when you're coming off those drugs. And it's the That's why I always think of cocaine as the big lie. You think you're having fun, but all you're doing is front-loading all the fun. And at some point, you're going to have to pay for that. The rent is due, no matter what you do in the 24-hour period. If you front-load all your feel-good chemicals in the first 12 hours, well, the second 12 hours, they're going to be completely depleted.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
And that's like something that people without experience of using drugs don't really understand. And good for them if they don't ever have to, but the problem is everyone has to kind of go through that painful journey of making those real coming to those realizations on their own through their own learned experiences, which is what sucks about drugs.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
But that's part of part of the reason that I like having these conversations, talking to people like you and Chris Herron and Chris Nile and all these guys who've been through this
David Millar
Exactly.
Ken Rideout
Through the ringer, Zacky Klac
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
And come through it to be like, "Yo, listen to what I'm telling you. This is a loser's game. It's like going to the [ __ ] casino and thinking you're going to win. Oh, this is so fun. I'm gambling. I got a system. I'm going to win." Uh the place doesn't exist for you to win.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
That place exists and the hotels are awesome and the rooms are free and the food is free because you will lose if you stay there long enough. Same thing with drugs. You will lose. There's no one you know who's had a healthy relationship with drugs. I don't care what anyone says.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
It's just not the way to do it.
David Millar
I'm curious what you think about like Subutex and stuff like that.
Ken Rideout
[sighs]
I have very mixed feelings. I think that when Subutex is used correctly, and by used correctly, I mean like 5 to 10 days maximum. Like you're not getting away from some withdrawals.
David Millar
Right.
Ken Rideout
So if you want to take Subutex to wean yourself off of opioids, the way it's supposed to be used, it's like a miracle drug. However, like drugs, it can also be the big lie because what happens is then you get people on Subutex for and what happened to me is I'd be on Subutex for a couple weeks, feel like, "Oh, I'm good. I can't stop taking the Subutex or I go into withdrawals." And then eventually I go back to taking Percocets, fentanyl, anything I could get my hands on and just went back and forth in that cycle for a couple years and then would be on Subutex for a sustained period which is not what it's designed for because it's it lasts so long in your body.
It's harder, I think, harder to withdraw from Subutex than it is from opioids and the problem is it's used in an irresponsible manner meaning people are on it Look, if you're a lifelong heroin addict and the only way you can live is to be on Subutex, okay. I I guess that's better than the alternative, but when you try to get off Subutex and you've been on it for more than like a few weeks, like you're in for a painful journey and like I always was saying earlier, like the rent's due.
You are [ __ ] paying those withdrawal dues. You are going through some pain and if you think you're not, you're insane. So, if you can use the Subutex for 5 to 10 days to like slowly wean off the opioids, at some point you're going to have like if you do it right, you could have 3 to 10 days of like discomfort from the withdrawals of the Subutex, opioids and everything else. It's just very difficult to have the mental discipline to just keep [snorts] going even though you know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
You're going to get there although it doesn't feel like you're going to get there when you're on day two or day three of withdrawals. It's horrible. So, what happened to me is I was on the Subutex, like I said, back and forth with opioids, Subutex and eventually I was on the Subutex for an extended period and I was just like, I have got to get off this and I went to an outpatient detox where they basically are like, all right, I'm I mean, I'm talking like I was on a half a milligram, but I still could not get off.
So, they were basically like, look, for the next 7 days, no Subutex. We're just going to manage your withdrawal symptoms and give you like a medically assisted withdrawal meaning I go into the clinic in the morning, they give me Ritalin to stay awake, a Xanax to go to sleep, but only the drugs for the day.
Right. they're not giving you 10 Xanax, 10 like you get the drugs for the day. If you get to 7 days sober, clean of Subutex and opioids, then they're going to give you a shot of Vivitrol, which is like a nandrolone or something.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
And basically what that does is it blocks all the opioid receptors in your brain and you cannot physically get high. It just won't allow you. And to me that was the lifesaver. So, I made it the 7 days not without like trials and tribulations. My wife finds me unconscious in the bathroom because I'm on so many different drugs. I wake up to piss and black out in withdrawals. Um but I made the 7 days, got the Vivitrol shot, and I was like on the road to recovery.
David Millar
Yeah, it's interesting cuz methadone is kind of the same thing. Methadone is like even worse I've heard cuz that it's like terrible coming off of that I heard. But that's still something that's being pushed very much. Um it's it's cool too cuz another thing that is uh up and coming is a lot of people are using the GLP-1s to help people come off of I I don't know if it's withdrawal. I think it's just cravings.
Ken Rideout
Cravings. Yeah. It's more so like a GLP-3 like a um like a retatrutide because it does block allegedly blocks cravings and desires. The downside though is from what I understand is it blocks the cravings and desires for anything including sex
David Millar
True.
Ken Rideout
And things that are healthy for you. But you know, if you can deal with giving up a desire for sex in exchange for giving up the desire for opioids at least while you're segueing off those um drugs, like I'm all for anything that can help you get sober.
David Millar
I agree. Yeah, we have a big clinical trial going on at the school I'm at right now where we're actively giving patients in treatment center uh like GLP-1s and stuff like that to help with their cravings um to kind of get more information on it. But I think it's cool just because I think the GLP-1 drugs are a way much healthier alternative than like a Subutex or something that's just like you're going to ultimately like be relying on it uh, to like push off the withdrawal or something.
I don't know. I think GLP-1s are just a better drug.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, well, I think even better than GLP-1s from what I understand is GLP-3s, like I said, the um, retatrutide. And so, and I think there's even more stuff coming out that's in development, but those drugs are crazy. It's like a mirror like there is no reason to be living an unhealthy lifestyle now with everything that's going on. And I think that one of the benefits of those drugs is when people start to lose weight, certainly people that are overweight or obese is when you get a little momentum and start to see the fruits of your labor.
It's It's like anything. It's easy for that to get contagious. And like all of a sudden it's like a snowball rolling downhill. You're like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm building momentum. I'm getting fitter. I'm getting stronger. I look better." And I don't think that there's any substitute for being fit. When you are fit, it's hard not to feel good about everything. And to the contrary, for me, it's hard to feel like I'm living my best life if I don't feel good physically about myself. And it's hard to feel good physically about yourself regardless of all these like body positivity like [ __ ] artists.
It's hard to feel good about yourself if you genuinely don't like being unfit is like a badge that you wear, whether you like it or not. Someone walked Two people walk in here, one's super fit and one's like very overweight. You're going to make certain assumptions about both of them. But look at the guy fit and be like, "Well, the guy understands delayed gratification. He's clearly paid his dues. I don't care if he's even taken taken drugs. You still have to do the work to have a certain type of physique." Right.
You can't take those drugs and all of a sudden you have like vascularity and musc- muscles. Like that has to be earned. And that's just part of life. And you can And we can like make it easy on the people that aren't in shape and, you know, speak all the positivity that you want, but the facts are the facts. And my my point in saying this is that I think it's good for your mental health to be that your mental and physical health are tied together.
And it's very good for your mental health when your physical health is on point.
David Millar
100% and just being fit enough to have running as an outlet because if you're not fit enough to the point where like you can't run, then how are how are you going to deal with the stress that is inevitably going to come in life? You can't run because you don't you haven't trained your body enough to like handle the stress of that. Running has been so big in my life. Whenever something stressful happens or I'm going through like a season in life, the first thing I do is run and it's amazing how fast your mind can shift after you get done the run and it's like it's crazy.
It's like a medicine. I treat it like a pill a lot of the time. I don't even I don't even do it mostly like the especially the ultras and stuff like that. I really do not do it for the physical act of like carving my body or anything like that. I do it because of the transformation that occurs when you put yourself in that position and um it's just it's healed me so much. Like especially coming back from drugs and alcohol and how much that the amount of destruction that caused in my body and my nervous system, running has healed me so much and you can literally feel it healing you.
When you get the We were talking about this month the runner's high when you feel that those endorphins going up there that's literally connecting pathways in your brain. Like hey, I'm doing something. It's good. This feels good. It's literally like it rewires your whole entire system. I've used it I've used it my whole entire recovery and I I think it's the best thing that I have been able to do and it's given me like it's just given me such a beneficial payback in terms of like regulating my nervous system.
Ken Rideout
Well, that's one of the things that I always preach is your mental physical health is your top priority and your top responsibility in the world and it is. Like no one can tell you what to do. I can't tell you what you should eat, whether you should work out, but when you do, it works. And like you said, it like it's it's been helpful in your recovery journey. It's been helpful in my journey and not only for for all the obvious reasons of the physical and mental health aspects, but also the connection aspect of people like us connecting for me to connect with guys like Chris Herren and Chris Knight and Zach Clark and have these kind of friendships and most of them are into some aspect of health and wellness and running is at the is at the core of all these journeys, right?
Running is the most bang for buck when it comes to cardio conditioning. So
David Millar
100%
Ken Rideout
Well, brother, I appreciate you coming down here to Nashville, sharing your story. It's been a pleasure getting to know you. It was fun running with you today. I'm looking forward to developing a real friendship with you and I appreciate everything you've been through and thank you for being so open and vulnerable and honest with the audience. I hope that people got a lot out of this and if people want to reach out, I assume like me you respond to all your DMs.
David Millar
I do, yeah. It might take me a little bit, but I get back to everybody. Yeah, mostly on Instagram for the most part.
Ken Rideout
On Instagram, again, it's as I said David Millar Mindset. Isn't there a cyclist David Millar?
David Millar
There is.
Ken Rideout
Yeah, when you sent me a thing I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] David Millar the cyclist is following me." And he was a freaking superstar, too. I think he's I think he's British or Irish, but he was a hardcore cyclist during Lance Armstrong's era, maybe a little bit after.
David Millar
He is hardcore. He takes all my clout, too. If you like look up David Millar, he's the Yeah, he's the only guy that comes
Ken Rideout
A real cyclist, like he's a real deal cyclist.
David Millar
Yeah. I think he's got a book. He still trains super hard, too. Yeah.
Ken Rideout
Cool.
David Millar
Um yeah, it's funny.
Ken Rideout
Well, good. If you have to have a share your name with someone, he's a good guy to share with. He's a bad boy.
David Millar
Yeah.
Ken Rideout
Well, everyone, thanks for being with us. Appreciate all the support as always. We'll be back with the next one soon. Thanks for being with us. Boom. All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a quick minute to subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. This is a new show, so subscribing makes a huge difference. Please also take a minute to give it a review and leave a comment on Apple podcast and on Spotify. You can also subscribe and leave a comment on YouTube.
Ken Rideout
There's multiple links there where you can find all the retailers carrying the book. Thanks a lot for being with us and we'll see you next week.
Key takeaways
- Early sobriety felt uncertain because Millar had never learned how to live without numbing himself.
- Daily structure and accountability helped him practice habits he had resisted before.
- He learned to direct obsessive energy toward work that can serve other people.
- Running gave him a repeatable way to manage stress and build confidence.
- Sharing a recovery story can give younger people a picture of sobriety in their twenties.
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